michael barry
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 14
Johnny,
Even I have wondered if taking propecia for 40 years will become problematic in late life.
However, we have a biological model for men without type 2 alpha five reductase enzymes. A Peurto Rican family of men, with absolutely no history of hairloss were studied, it was found they have no type 2 alpha five. Thats what propecia inhibits. It DOES NOT get type 1 like Dutasteride does (at a bit over 50%). Those Peurto Rican men live happy, healthy lives. No problems.
If I have a problem with propecia, its that it only gets 90% of type 2 alpha five DHT production, and not 100% of it. Dutasteride gets 98% of type 2.
A man still has 30-35% of his serum levels of DHT on propecia. After embryological development of genetalia, all DHT seems to do is grow your prostate and shed your hair.
However, this site has info on the topical alternatives to propecia. A few of the moderators use one topically (spironolactone). There is a couple of others Crinagen and Revivogen based on natural free-form fatty acids. Ive never heard anyone complain about side effects, although I have my one little note on the two. I tried both for a month, but conducted a little personal experiment with them placed on each wrist to see which would inhibit the most BODY hair growth. Both slowed it, but Revivogen did it better. I also like the dropper application as you can get more even coverage and save the stuff (sprays get topicals on your hair and not your scalp too much IMO). So if a man DOES experience sides with propecia, there are topical DHT inhibitors and receptor blockers, and gourmetstylewellness.com carries three of em'. Green tea extract, with ECGH in it, is another one that gets type 1. Its in American Crew Copper peptides. So if a guy did propecia and American Crew Revitalize.....it may be as good as taking dutasteride and tricomin topically (just a passing thought).
On the FDA, Im pissed about Vioxx as anybody, Ive heard of scientists (and seen on PBS) whistleblowers stating that (especially during the Bush II administration) that EVERYTHING seems to be getting cleared for sale. Worries me some also. However, so MANY GUYS take propecia and do fine with it............
If anything is worrying me about establishment medicine (I bet gourmetstylewellness.com eats me a new one for this) its some of the journals like NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL of medicine and LANCET doing studies on herbals that all mysteriously have bad results in the past few years. Grandad been takin' gloucosamine and fish oil for that arthritis instead of a pharmaceutical? Well then lets have a study that says they dont work (although theyve had happy customers for years). A recent NEJM study was done on Saw Palmetto and prostate. The muthaphucka's used men with grade 3 and 4 PSA's and found (duh) that SP didn't help. WELL OF COURSE NOT, not even herbal sales reps would advise SP on cases that advanced. The awful performance of the placebo group has led many to conclude (me too) that they used some right sick folks in this study to begin with. SP was not for advanced hyperplasia in the first place.
Before I go, since Ive no doubt rankled some nerves already.....Id like to state that since sebum secretions are supposedly such a good indicator of whether an anti-androgen is having an effect that this
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php ... &mode=full very short study (too short by 4 times to accurately access hair viability) DID PROVE Saw Palmetto can reduce excess sebum secretion both intrenally and externally. A 67% reduction in superficial sebum when used internally and topically. Thats a good sign. Also a PubMed study here 'http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/145/7/3205 that indicates that SP supresses insulin-like growth factor in human prostate epithelial cells (as many of us guys who are up on baldness know, insulin resistance and baldness are linked more and more nowadays), and this pub med study that http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... med_DocSum shows saw palmetto at 320 mgs a day relieving BPH symptoms practically even with 5 mgs (Proscar dosage) of finasteride. There are beaucoup pubmed studies on Saw Palmetto and prostate symptoms, all of which seemingly point to it being helpful. Now the New England Journal of Medicine comes along and says it doenst help at ALL? Bullshit. Tom Hagerty stated in his discussion area on is site that he knew a man that used to work at a medical journal. His friend that worked there some 20-odd years contended that medical journals were becoming mere extensions of drug companies marketing departments and the modus operandi was gettin' to be: you pay for the study, and we'll give ya' the results. Not good my friends, not good. Campain cash should not affect the health info we get, but Im begining to think it does.
Even I have wondered if taking propecia for 40 years will become problematic in late life.
However, we have a biological model for men without type 2 alpha five reductase enzymes. A Peurto Rican family of men, with absolutely no history of hairloss were studied, it was found they have no type 2 alpha five. Thats what propecia inhibits. It DOES NOT get type 1 like Dutasteride does (at a bit over 50%). Those Peurto Rican men live happy, healthy lives. No problems.
If I have a problem with propecia, its that it only gets 90% of type 2 alpha five DHT production, and not 100% of it. Dutasteride gets 98% of type 2.
A man still has 30-35% of his serum levels of DHT on propecia. After embryological development of genetalia, all DHT seems to do is grow your prostate and shed your hair.
However, this site has info on the topical alternatives to propecia. A few of the moderators use one topically (spironolactone). There is a couple of others Crinagen and Revivogen based on natural free-form fatty acids. Ive never heard anyone complain about side effects, although I have my one little note on the two. I tried both for a month, but conducted a little personal experiment with them placed on each wrist to see which would inhibit the most BODY hair growth. Both slowed it, but Revivogen did it better. I also like the dropper application as you can get more even coverage and save the stuff (sprays get topicals on your hair and not your scalp too much IMO). So if a man DOES experience sides with propecia, there are topical DHT inhibitors and receptor blockers, and gourmetstylewellness.com carries three of em'. Green tea extract, with ECGH in it, is another one that gets type 1. Its in American Crew Copper peptides. So if a guy did propecia and American Crew Revitalize.....it may be as good as taking dutasteride and tricomin topically (just a passing thought).
On the FDA, Im pissed about Vioxx as anybody, Ive heard of scientists (and seen on PBS) whistleblowers stating that (especially during the Bush II administration) that EVERYTHING seems to be getting cleared for sale. Worries me some also. However, so MANY GUYS take propecia and do fine with it............
If anything is worrying me about establishment medicine (I bet gourmetstylewellness.com eats me a new one for this) its some of the journals like NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL of medicine and LANCET doing studies on herbals that all mysteriously have bad results in the past few years. Grandad been takin' gloucosamine and fish oil for that arthritis instead of a pharmaceutical? Well then lets have a study that says they dont work (although theyve had happy customers for years). A recent NEJM study was done on Saw Palmetto and prostate. The muthaphucka's used men with grade 3 and 4 PSA's and found (duh) that SP didn't help. WELL OF COURSE NOT, not even herbal sales reps would advise SP on cases that advanced. The awful performance of the placebo group has led many to conclude (me too) that they used some right sick folks in this study to begin with. SP was not for advanced hyperplasia in the first place.
Before I go, since Ive no doubt rankled some nerves already.....Id like to state that since sebum secretions are supposedly such a good indicator of whether an anti-androgen is having an effect that this
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php ... &mode=full very short study (too short by 4 times to accurately access hair viability) DID PROVE Saw Palmetto can reduce excess sebum secretion both intrenally and externally. A 67% reduction in superficial sebum when used internally and topically. Thats a good sign. Also a PubMed study here 'http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/145/7/3205 that indicates that SP supresses insulin-like growth factor in human prostate epithelial cells (as many of us guys who are up on baldness know, insulin resistance and baldness are linked more and more nowadays), and this pub med study that http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... med_DocSum shows saw palmetto at 320 mgs a day relieving BPH symptoms practically even with 5 mgs (Proscar dosage) of finasteride. There are beaucoup pubmed studies on Saw Palmetto and prostate symptoms, all of which seemingly point to it being helpful. Now the New England Journal of Medicine comes along and says it doenst help at ALL? Bullshit. Tom Hagerty stated in his discussion area on is site that he knew a man that used to work at a medical journal. His friend that worked there some 20-odd years contended that medical journals were becoming mere extensions of drug companies marketing departments and the modus operandi was gettin' to be: you pay for the study, and we'll give ya' the results. Not good my friends, not good. Campain cash should not affect the health info we get, but Im begining to think it does.
