Steroids - WIll this work

[docj077]

[quote="hair today gone tomorrow":ad5ed]does that mean that Doctor's salaries will be decreasing?

For primary care...yes. For those that subspecialize...no. It also depends upon how far removed any given physician's clinic or surgical center is from the monetary affairs fo their local hospital.

d*** that sucks...no worries im sure youll be making around 150k a year once your all done [/quote:ad5ed]

I'm going to be doing primary care (Internal Medicine), so I really don't care how much money I'm going to make.

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

[quote="hair today gone tomorrow":181cf]does that mean that Doctor's salaries will be decreasing?

For primary care...yes. For those that subspecialize...no. It also depends upon how far removed any given physician's clinic or surgical center is from the monetary affairs fo their local hospital.

d*** that sucks...no worries im sure youll be making around 150k a year once your all done

I'm going to be doing primary care (Internal Medicine), so I really don't care how much money I'm going to make.[/quote:181cf]

yah, but youll still make well over 6 figures

 

[docj077]

[quote="hair today gone tomorrow":437b6]

[quote="hair today gone tomorrow":437b6]does that mean that Doctor's salaries will be decreasing?

For primary care...yes. For those that subspecialize...no. It also depends upon how far removed any given physician's clinic or surgical center is from the monetary affairs fo their local hospital.

d*** that sucks...no worries im sure youll be making around 150k a year once your all done

I'm going to be doing primary care (Internal Medicine), so I really don't care how much money I'm going to make.[/quote:437b6]

yah, but youll still make well over 6 figures[/quote:437b6]

...maybe.

 

[trapsource]

Johnny24601, I understand your stance, and maybe my smoking analogy wasnt exactly what I was trying to compare. People are so mislead about the dangers of things, that they rely on a doctor to give sound advice. If you tell someone not to do it, then at least explain why and what could happen. I see if a guy asks how to do steroids why they would decline, but my point was if a guy has made up his mind, knows the risks, and just needs advice so he wont damage his body too much he should be given at least the facts.

 

[docj077]

Johnny24601, I understand your stance, and maybe my smoking analogy wasnt exactly what I was trying to compare. People are so mislead about the dangers of things, that they rely on a doctor to give sound advice. If you tell someone not to do it, then at least explain why and what could happen. I see if a guy asks how to do steroids why they would decline, but my point was if a guy has made up his mind, knows the risks, and just needs advice so he wont damage his body too much he should be given at least the facts.

What one person calls facts another person calls scare tactics. If you tell someone not to do something and leave it at that, then there is no room for questioning. Especially, when it comes to drug use and abuse.

But, if he wants the risks, then here they are:

liver toxicity
testicular atrophy
male infertility
masculinization of women
breast enlargement in males
short stature in children,
adverse effects on blood lipid levels
potential to increase the risk of heart attack and stroke.


Those reasons would stop me from using them, but I take care of my body. Some people would say that you can prevent those side effects by using 5AR inhibitors and aromatase inhibitors, but those classes of drugs can be liver toxic, as well. Not to mention the other side effects that they can potentially have.

Using steroids may make you look good and maybe even feel good about yourself, but you're technically killing yourself from the inside out.

 

[roki]

Johnny24601, I understand your stance, and maybe my smoking analogy wasnt exactly what I was trying to compare. People are so mislead about the dangers of things, that they rely on a doctor to give sound advice. If you tell someone not to do it, then at least explain why and what could happen. I see if a guy asks how to do steroids why they would decline, but my point was if a guy has made up his mind, knows the risks, and just needs advice so he wont damage his body too much he should be given at least the facts.

What one person calls facts another person calls scare tactics. If you tell someone not to do something and leave it at that, then there is no room for questioning. Especially, when it comes to drug use and abuse.

But, if he wants the risks, then here they are:

liver toxicity
testicular atrophy
male infertility
masculinization of women
breast enlargement in males
short stature in children,
adverse effects on blood lipid levels
potential to increase the risk of heart attack and stroke.


Those reasons would stop me from using them, but I take care of my body. Some people would say that you can prevent those side effects by using 5AR inhibitors and aromatase inhibitors, but those classes of drugs can be liver toxic, as well. Not to mention the other side effects that they can potentially have.

Using steroids may make you look good and maybe even feel good about yourself, but you're technically killing yourself from the inside out.

all you say might be true but it dosent make you any less of an arrogant prick ,when i think of it 90% of the doctors i met till now were arrogant pricks who thought they know everything ,youll fit right in :x

 

[Harie]

But, if he wants the risks, then here they are:

liver toxicity
testicular atrophy
male infertility
masculinization of women
breast enlargement in males
short stature in children,
adverse effects on blood lipid levels
potential to increase the risk of heart attack and stroke.

OMG! There are risks with anything you put into your body.

Asprin side effects:

possible allergic reactions (difficulty breathing; closing of the throat; swelling of the lips, tongue, or face; or hives);
black, bloody, or tarry stools;
nausea, vomiting, or abdominal pain;
uncontrolled fever;
blood in the urine or vomit;
decreased hearing or ringing in the ears;
seizures; or
dizziness, confusion, or hallucinations

You had better start refusing to answer people's questions that have taken asprin. It's bad for you.

Tylenol:

Possible allergic reaction (difficulty breathing; closing of the throat; swelling of the lips, tongue, or face; or hives);
liver damage (yellowing of the skin or eyes, nausea, abdominal pain or discomfort, unusual bleeding or bruising, severe fatigue);
blood problems (easy or unusual bleeding or bruising).

Tylenol is bad for you. Better refuse to answer their questions too. It even has a side effect that improper steroid use can have.

 

[trapsource]

Amen. I guess people just think that those who take steroids are cheaters, and overly vain and cocky. Sure some are. The biggest pricks and most rediculous people iive met take them regularly. Thats why It gets such a bad rap. But on extreme makeover or Oprah, these lazy people get lipo, facelift, new teeth, new skin, nosejob, fat reduction in the face, reshaping, you name it. Then they come out and people applaud them for their efforts and say how brave they are. With absolutly no effort at all. Yet a guy who has done steroids (sparingly) that has to bust his *** for years and diet to the extreme is considered a cheater.
I can see doctors that are so against steroids for there negative health risks, But the plastic surgeons still continue to butcher. I have seen hair transplants where the patient can never show his head. Or bad lipo, lip job, huge scarring from breast implants, implants that burst. risk of death and infection, etc. My point is that kind of surgery is risky health wise and look wise. Do the doctors advise against it? Some ethical doctors I bet do. But I guess its different when people shell out $10-50 grand.

 

[Johnny24601]

re:

Taking tylanol or aspiron (unlike steroids) is not drug abuse. Seriously use your head man.
Doctor, the medical community is a mess but the thought of not treating people because of their life choices is absurd because it leaves so much up for interpretation. Do we refuse patients who are overweight and have heart problems because of a poor diet. Do we refuse people who have abused their liver because they took pain medication to treat their horrible back problems caused by work (because it can be assumed that the person should have chose a different job). Do we refuse people who have skin problems from too much sun? On an on.....these economic issues over treatment costs should be handled by the federal gov't and private insurance and not doctors.
You also show bias because you attack patients and insurance company without addressing the inadequacies in MDs, namely the over prescription of medications (pain killers and anti depressants particularly) and the ridiculous relationships between doctors and drug companies. I am next to a doctor office and everyday they have different drug company sales-people coming by and I have heard some outrageous stories of drug company funded vacations for doctors. In fact one doctor gave me an Ipod that was "given" to him at a drug company sponsored event because "he already has five of these dam things from other events".
Developing and encouraging a system of checks and balances for doctors is good for patients and good for economy as long as it is initiated fairly. I am just not sure exactly how to do it.

 

[trapsource]

I date a woman who manages a doctors office and I hear the exact same stories. You realize its a business like everything else . The more sick people are the more money they make. If everyone was healthy they wouldnt be too happy

 

[docj077]

Re: re:

On an on.....these economic issues over treatment costs should be handled by the federal gov't and private insurance and not doctors.

Are you serious? That would be the biggest mistake the American public could ever make. It's the fault of private insurance and the government that doctors are forced to practice second class medicine. Doctors have to go through verification processes just to prescribe medications to many patients and not only that, but it has to be a particular medication from a particular company when there is likely a safer and cheaper alternative. Don't give me your opinion, because you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to what doctors do for their patients. They practically throw themselves into oncoming traffic just to get labs and imaging done for people. I won't even go into how stupid the current system is with doctors being required to have a diagnosis before they ever even run tests. Insurance companies and the government make it impossible for doctors to help people and yet the people want the government to take over and provide healthcare. That is easily one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

You also show bias because you attack patients and insurance company without addressing the inadequacies in MDs, namely the over prescription of medications (pain killers and anti depressants particularly) and the ridiculous relationships between doctors and drug companies. I am next to a doctor office and everyday they have different drug company sales-people coming by and I have heard some outrageous stories of drug company funded vacations for doctors. In fact one doctor gave me an Ipod that was "given" to him at a drug company sponsored event because "he already has five of these dam things from other events".
Developing and encouraging a system of checks and balances for doctors is good for patients and good for economy as long as it is initiated fairly. I am just not sure exactly how to do it.

MDs don't overprescribe. To be honest, they prescribe enough medications to treat the diseases that people present with due to those individuals long years of overeating, poor glycemic control, accumulation of stress, accumulation of toxins, and the like. For this very reason people are on two to three diabetes medications, a diuretic, a beta-blocker, an anti-depressant, and the like. They are on all these meds, because they've screwed themselves over so much, that a physician must take drastic measures just to return the body to normal physiology. Unfortunately, for the majority of people that I've seen in the clinic, even dietary modifications do not treat insulin resistance and those same people will end up on a dozen drugs and having a stroke, MI, PAD, Renal artery stenosis, hypertension, hyperlipidemia, and eventually, they will require a kidney transplant for their end stage kidney disease followed ultimately by their untimely demise.

As for the pharmaceutical representative, physicians are only allowed to accept certain gifts in certain states and many have to report when they get gifts of a certain price. Don't blame the physician for what your state and local government consider to be acceptable. If someone walked up to you and gave you a free ipod, would you simply give it back? Or, would you give one to a fellow collegue, a friend, a child, or another family member? That's what most physicians do, so I don't want to hear your opinion since all that you've seen is the outside and you've never lived it from the inside.

 

[global]

3-4 weeks after cycle sounds about right.

That's all I'm going to say. The medical community considers cycling and stacking to be drug abuse, so I can't help you.

really, i thought there were Doctor's that helped the roiders with their cycling and which drugs to stack together and even with injections....IM sure all the MR. olympia competitors have doctors watching over them.

Like I said. It's drug abuse.

I think you mean some people regard it as drug abuse.

I never understood the attitude of the medical commmunity to steroids.

It's considered perfectly acceptable for someone to undertake the risks of a general anaesthetic and undergo major surgery for cosmetic purposes.

But if a man wants to take steroids (which when used properly have very little risk attached) for a couple of months to improve his appearance he gets labelled like some kind of heroin addict.

IMO this is due to the latent anti male discrimination so prevalent in society today. You can bet if steroids were predominantly used by women for cosmetic purposes instead of men they would be available at all the cosmetic clinics.

 

[global]

Re: re:

Trapsource,
The kid knows its not right and everyone does to, the advice is condoning the activity, period. Someone will easily rationalize that steroids are somewhat safe because "some doctor on the internet said they could be done a certain way to reduce risk" because there are a lot of stupid people out there. Frankly, the Doctor should have said nothing IMO or at the most just said that juice can be dangerous and I advise you to choose another way to build muscle. Of course I think the idea that anyone would risk harm just to "appear" more attractive is so so bad to long term mental health.The day after pill is not the same, that is a medical issue and by law a right of that patient to be provided the medication if she so wishes.
Again, he must treat a patient who has a medical condition resulting from steroids but advising (and thus condoning to a degree) is not acceptable IMO. The issue for me is the public nature of a forum, it is not the place for doctors to be advising on questionable activities. I appreciate your point of view and think there is room for lots of debate on an issue like this......

Are you really serious? You yourself are using two different drugs which have their own potentially harmful side effects for the sake of your appearance.

 

[global]

Do no harm? Why wouldnt a doctor help someone even if they are doing something wrong? Thats bullshit. Whats next, you wont treat a cancer patient because he go it from smoking? Some of you doctors can kiss my ***, you arrogant pricks

Physicians and medical students are not required to help anyone...ever. In certain situations, they can be punished for not helping another human being. This situation is not one of them.

Besides, I did help him. If his line of thinking and the actions that he is taking is considered to be drug abuse and outside the confines of what I consider to be moral, then perhaps he just needs to stop doing it. That was the only option I gave him, because that's the only option he has at this point.

There is no such thing as safely using steroids unless you have a problem with low sex hormone levels to begin with and you desire to boost that level to something that is more physiologically appealing.


Americans should feel lucky. I'm working with a physician right now that spent a year in England with their socialistic type of medicine. Once you reach a certain age there and you have a problem that could lead to your death, they don't even bother. Unfortunately, most people don't realize this and demand that system even though it's even more broken than the American system.



As for the cancer and smoking argument, pay careful attention to the direction of the American medical system. With the soaring cost of procedures and technology and the ever dwindling reimbursement for physicians from medicare there will come a time when people that smoke will no longer receive any medical care for what they've done to themselves. Doctors grow tired of paying for the ignorance of the general public out of pocket.

The American medical system is moving towards a system where doctors will be paid for their services based upon surveys and general comments. Once this happens (which is already has if you haven't already noticed the surveys that you get in the mail after an office visit), doctors will be paid on a sliding scale. Unfortunately, doctors are already tired of that particular payment method, so they won't accept it. Medicine will go back to way it used be with only the rich receiving medical care, because they will be the only people that will be able to afford medical care. The physicians that are good at what they do will be well paid by the rich and those that are mediocre will be left to treat the rest. So, skilled doctors win, the rich win, unskilled doctors help the poor, and the poor ultimately loose.

Remember to read what I said above carefully. Our system is already moving that direction, because people refuse to take care of themselves, take advantage of insurance companies, and they take advantage of their doctors by not paying. I've spoken to way too many physicians that are willing to acknowledge this change and even embrace it.




Like I said before, cycling and stacking are considered drug abuse by the medical community. So, if he wants help, he can go and seek treatment for his problem or he can join a group to help him through it. Those are his only two options in my opinion.

Sorry that's total BS.

You display a worrying tendency to uncritically accept information and opinions from others. You'll make a better doctor if you learn to think for yourself.

 

[global]

But, if he wants the risks, then here they are:

liver toxicity
testicular atrophy
male infertility
masculinization of women
breast enlargement in males
short stature in children,
adverse effects on blood lipid levels
potential to increase the risk of heart attack and stroke.

OMG! There are risks with anything you put into your body.

Asprin side effects:

possible allergic reactions (difficulty breathing; closing of the throat; swelling of the lips, tongue, or face; or hives);
black, bloody, or tarry stools;
nausea, vomiting, or abdominal pain;
uncontrolled fever;
blood in the urine or vomit;
decreased hearing or ringing in the ears;
seizures; or
dizziness, confusion, or hallucinations

You had better start refusing to answer people's questions that have taken asprin. It's bad for you.

Tylenol:

Possible allergic reaction (difficulty breathing; closing of the throat; swelling of the lips, tongue, or face; or hives);
liver damage (yellowing of the skin or eyes, nausea, abdominal pain or discomfort, unusual bleeding or bruising, severe fatigue);
blood problems (easy or unusual bleeding or bruising).

Tylenol is bad for you. Better refuse to answer their questions too. It even has a side effect that improper steroid use can have.

Exactly, do you know how many people die each year in the United States from taking aspirin? Over 7000.

I find it truly amazing that so many people are willing to risk death and hospitalization just to get rid of a headache, what kind of drug abusers are they?

You'd find it nearly impossible to find even one truely confirmed death from steroid use where there wasn't a pre-existing complicating condition.

 

[roki]

Re: re:

Trapsource,
The kid knows its not right and everyone does to, the advice is condoning the activity, period. Someone will easily rationalize that steroids are somewhat safe because "some doctor on the internet said they could be done a certain way to reduce risk" because there are a lot of stupid people out there. Frankly, the Doctor should have said nothing IMO or at the most just said that juice can be dangerous and I advise you to choose another way to build muscle. Of course I think the idea that anyone would risk harm just to "appear" more attractive is so so bad to long term mental health.The day after pill is not the same, that is a medical issue and by law a right of that patient to be provided the medication if she so wishes.
Again, he must treat a patient who has a medical condition resulting from steroids but advising (and thus condoning to a degree) is not acceptable IMO. The issue for me is the public nature of a forum, it is not the place for doctors to be advising on questionable activities. I appreciate your point of view and think there is room for lots of debate on an issue like this......

Are you really serious? You yourself are using two different drugs which have their own potentially harmful side effects for the sake of your appearance.

hahaha
next time think before you post Johnny

 

[Johnny24601]

re:

Many things to comment on here and we are obviously outside a hairloss discussion but here are some general comments of my own:
Doctor, if private companies and the gov't don't handle our health care then who will? I concede that our current system is not very good IMO, but that is because of poor leadership, terrible policies and greed within the gov't and the insurers. What we need is sound policy and leadership on this important issue. A good policy maker must recognize how important it is to have lots of input from doctors as they need to be acutely involved in solving health care in America.
I do believe and (through my volunteer work with addicts) have personally seen many many doctors over prescribing medication. I absolutely think that most doctors are incredible human beings and do so much to help their patients, I just can't believe that you could say that over prescribing does not take place. I'll go so far as to say that this is bordering on an epidemic. We simply cannot have people who are supposed to be the ultimate protectors of our health also be acting as drug dealers. I just completed an informal question and answer with local doctors on this subject, in particular the need for a database to regulate prescriptions and most doctors (off the record) agreed that it is a problem. So many people I see simply jumped from doctor to dentist to psychologist in order to get scripts for the same barbiturate. I concede that I do not have as much knowledge as you on the medical community but you are way off on this, just go down to your local drug treatment facility and talk to the people there who are oxycotin, Valium and vicadine addicts and how they used doctors as their informal drug dealer. I see doctors prescribing hundreds of pills at once even to people who they know are addicts, it is mind blowing! Apparently you are unaware of the information coming out in which teens in this country are abusing prescription medication at an alarming pace. I don't want to sound like Tom Cruise, but I can also sight many cases (both in my private life and volunteer activities) where people are prescribed anti depressants at will. IMO many people today have come to believe that their depression is "solved" if they take a pill and doctors play a role in that ignorance because they are the basically the dealers of these drugs. Unfortunately I also see many doctors prescribing medicine because they fear that they will get sued if their patient hurts someone else or themselves and the doctor is blamed for not prescribing a medication. Medical malpractice is a major problem for everyone!
Global, you make a very valid point and I struggled with this concept for sometime. Obviously you are bias on these sort of appearance issues and all I can say is I disagree with your point of view on finasteride. If I was suffering sides I would stop, in fact at one point I thought I was experiencing sides and I almost quit. I will not use dutasteride out of fear of sides. Obviously I cannot predict if finasteride use could hurt me in the future and I do see it as a personnel weakness that I take finasteride, but I am human. There is a line to be drawn as one could say that any attempt to look good is unnecessary, like shaving, buying nice clothes, haircuts etc. To me it is just common sense when one defines the line between what can be consider excessive and what is a reasonable mix of looking good without going overboard. It is a fine line and you make a good point. Though I do want to make it very clear that you (personally) have every right in a free society to do what you please and anyone who tries to deny you that right or discriminate against you because of your choice is wrong. However I will also say that I do not believe that public funds should not be available to fund your transformation. This is just my opinion. I know we spoke about this in the past and I went a little crazy back then and again I apologize.
I too find it curious how accepting the medical community appears to be over plastic surgery. I think some plastic surgery is acceptable (i.e. removing excess skin after major weight loss for example) though it is tough to draw the line as to what is overboard. I personally don't buy it when people say they got their boobs done or nose job for "myself". I think society would be better off if people spent more time figuring out how to accept and appreciate their imperfection rather then change them. Hopefully in time I will learn to accept my blading head, it is something I am working on.

 

[global]

You're right I certainly don't think public money should be used for these things.

I also agree that few people have surgery or use steroids for "themselves" unfortunately it is I believe due to societal pressure. In fact I am currently engaged in a study of peoples reasons for having cosmetic surgery so I my be able to supply some interesting data on this in the future.

I don't think you should see it as a weakness that you take finasteride. I see it as a strength that you willing to do something positive for your self esteem in spite of possible risks. And absoloutley nothing is risk free except sitting in your own room at home 24 hrs a day.

In the end everyone has to make their own decision after becoming informed about all the risks and benefits.

 

[Balding_1]

Do no harm? Why wouldnt a doctor help someone even if they are doing something wrong? Thats bullshit. Whats next, you wont treat a cancer patient because he go it from smoking? Some of you doctors can kiss my ***, you arrogant pricks

Physicians and medical students are not required to help anyone...ever. In certain situations, they can be punished for not helping another human being. This situation is not one of them.

Besides, I did help him. If his line of thinking and the actions that he is taking is considered to be drug abuse and outside the confines of what I consider to be moral, then perhaps he just needs to stop doing it. That was the only option I gave him, because that's the only option he has at this point.

There is no such thing as safely using steroids unless you have a problem with low sex hormone levels to begin with and you desire to boost that level to something that is more physiologically appealing.


Americans should feel lucky. I'm working with a physician right now that spent a year in England with their socialistic type of medicine. Once you reach a certain age there and you have a problem that could lead to your death, they don't even bother. Unfortunately, most people don't realize this and demand that system even though it's even more broken than the American system.



As for the cancer and smoking argument, pay careful attention to the direction of the American medical system. With the soaring cost of procedures and technology and the ever dwindling reimbursement for physicians from medicare there will come a time when people that smoke will no longer receive any medical care for what they've done to themselves. Doctors grow tired of paying for the ignorance of the general public out of pocket.

The American medical system is moving towards a system where doctors will be paid for their services based upon surveys and general comments. Once this happens (which is already has if you haven't already noticed the surveys that you get in the mail after an office visit), doctors will be paid on a sliding scale. Unfortunately, doctors are already tired of that particular payment method, so they won't accept it. Medicine will go back to way it used be with only the rich receiving medical care, because they will be the only people that will be able to afford medical care. The physicians that are good at what they do will be well paid by the rich and those that are mediocre will be left to treat the rest. So, skilled doctors win, the rich win, unskilled doctors help the poor, and the poor ultimately loose.
Remember to read what I said above carefully. Our system is already moving that direction, because people refuse to take care of themselves, take advantage of insurance companies, and they take advantage of their doctors by not paying. I've spoken to way too many physicians that are willing to acknowledge this change and even embrace it.




Like I said before, cycling and stacking are considered drug abuse by the medical community. So, if he wants help, he can go and seek treatment for his problem or he can join a group to help him through it. Those are his only two options in my opinion.

Are you saying that the way the american system is heading it will be better than the British system?

The american medical system has been found lagging behind Canada, and most European nations for a long time now. Americans spend more money on health care than any other country but ranked 37 out of 191 in the WHO 2000 report. Britain ranked 18th and spends only 6% of the GDP with Universal Care to all people. Why should americans feel lucky again?

I'm not even british but I have learned enough in school to realize that the British have an amazing health care system that should be emulated as much as possible. To say otherwise displays yet more arrogance and an unwillingness to learn of other medical systems.

 

[docj077]

Are you saying that the way the american system is heading it will be better than the British system?

The american medical system has been found lagging behind Canada, and most European nations for a long time now. Americans spend more money on health care than any other country but ranked 37 out of 191 in the WHO 2000 report. Britain ranked 18th and spends only 6% of the GDP with Universal Care to all people. Why should americans feel lucky again?

I'm not even british but I have learned enough in school to realize that the British have an amazing health care system that should be emulated as much as possible. To say otherwise displays yet more arrogance and an unwillingness to learn of other medical systems.

American doctors are tired of practicing second class medicine and dealing with the government and insurance companies. The following link describes the current direction of the American medical system and it is widely supported by every physician that I've discussed it with:

http://www.acponline.org/journals/news/ ... _model.htm

No government influence, no need for a business office as patients will have to bill their own insurance, doctors can practice first class medicine, and physicians will ask for money up front for services. With enough physicians practicing this system in a clinic, they will have all the necessary technology and influence. With enough physicians practicing this system in the country, insurance companies will be forced to lower their prices as the price of healthcare will once again be less than the cost of insurance and the cost of medications will go down as pts will no longer be able to afford their medications.

As for your comments regarding the American system, they are way off base and prove your ignorance and lack of experience with the system. Americans with money really do receive the best healthcare in the world. They receive the best healthcare, because they have the best insurance and they can pay for all other services and tests. So, a physician is not limited by phone calls, requirements, and pre-approval. It's the best medicine, because it's the least hindered medicine. Again, the government and the insurance companies make it this way...not physicians. Blame your congressman for the poor healthcare you receive. A physician can only do so much.

As for your comments regarding the British system...no. Pure and simple...no. You really have no idea how that system works. I've talked with about a dozen physicians that have gone to that country with a few doing rotations or residency years over there, as well. I've also researched it for years. As a patient, you have to wake up early in the morning, go to the clinic and stand in line as there are no appointments, and simply pray that you will be seen that day. Unfortunately, there are people doing triage, so the physicians will typically see only the easiest of patients every day, because most of them are paid by the number of patients they see in a day and not by the difficutly of diagnosis. So, a doctor will get there at eight or nine in the morning, see as many patients as possible in a four hour period, and then head home. This leaves all the diabetics and other patients with complicated medical problems with two choices: Go to the emergency room or come back another day. Coming back another day does not guarantee service. Remember this fact.

So, one day you go to the clinic early in the morning and stand in line. You have a cough, night sweats, and some difficulty breathing. You don't get in the first day, but you came back for a few days and eventually you get in to see a doctor after you miraculously make it through triage. They do a chest x-ray and find a mass in your left lung. They biopsy it and discover that it's a small cell carcinoma secondary to the 30+ years of smoking that you've done. Your likely only option will be surgery followed by chemotherapy. So, you need to see a surgeon and an oncologist. However, in Britain, your typical wait to see a surgeon or an oncologist and be months and even up to a year. So, while you're waiting to see a medical professional, your lung cancer grows, metastasizes, and eventually you pass away due to complications from the metastasis. If for some reason you're over the age of 75, once you gain access to a hospital, then you'll be doomed to hear your primary physician utter the words, "what are you doing? At his age, we don't bother."

So, tell me again how that system is better than ours?

In America, if you go to your general practitioner with the above symptoms, you'll not be turned away for any reason, you'll receive a chest x-ray that very day, you'll receive a CT scan the next day, you'll be in touch with a surgeon and an oncologist within the week, and you'll have your surgery done and be on chemotherapy within the month. And what is even better is that many hospitals will either end up eating all that debt that you'll accrue if you're poor or they'll set you up with a payment program or another service that offers grants to help you pay. While getting your chemotherapy, you'll receive the best chemotherapy agents in the world, in the cleanest facilities in the world, from the best trained oncologists and surgeons in the world. If any step of this process fails, it's not because your physician has failed you. It's because your insurance company and your government have failed you. Your insurance company wants you to die and your government has prevented your insurance company from embracing that ideal.


You all need to do some serious reading when it comes to current medical theory with regards to future direction, finances, and the quality of medical care in the world. Unless you're a part of the system, you really have no idea how it functions.