T/Gel effects on 5ar

[CCS]

The bottle says, "for optimal results, use at least twice a week". I think Every other day would be the maximum though.


And just so all you know, Head and Shoulders increases sebum production. It is good for dandruff, and is a growth stimulant like minoxidil, but it will spead up the rate that your hair is damaged. And it is not additive to minoxidil. Just do the T/Gel, nizoral, and Piroctone olamine.

 

[blaze]

CCS, where do you get your Piroctone Olamine Shampoo from? They dont seem to sell it over here at the chemist or supermarket.

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

CCS, where do you get your Piroctone Olamine Shampoo from? They dont seem to sell it over here at the chemist or supermarket.

the body shop sells it...its called ginger shampoo...or get it from amazon. only 10 bucks.

 

[bubka]

ccs how many shampoos do you plan on using

nizoral
licorice
nano
h&s
spironolactone shampoo
PO

anything else?

ginger

and his RU he made too

and the American Crew

and don't forget Johnson's and Johnson's baby shampoo

it all together only costs $7.54 per month, though on months that have 28 days, its like $7.49

 

[bubka]

when I used it tonight, it smelled like a chemical from my organic chemistry lab. I think naphalene, or one of the other crystaline hydrocarbons. It does not smell like asphalt.

the smell was not overpowering. I tolerated it OK. But the hot water over time made the fumes get to me a bit. I can handle this stuff, but I want to mix it in my hand with nizoral next time.

yes, naphalene, i suggest everyone sleep with moth balls in their pillow

... CCS adds moth balls to his regime...

 

[ripple-effect]

CCS, if you shed alot you should try adding Alpecin C1 shampoo + ASL, works great for me. My hair has amazing grip now. Actually, I can't remember if you added caffeine manually to one of the items in your hair loss regimen, but I just want to make you and everyone else aware of the fact that Alpecin's C1 shampoo and ASL overall results are not created from just caffeine alone. Other active ingredients such as Zinc and Niacin in their formula work in conjunction with caffeine to produce the overall results. I apologize if this contradicts anything said earlier as I did not go through all of the posts. I just read all the shampoos you use.

Note: This is my primary regimen as of now.

 

[CCS]

Do T/Gel 1% Coal Tar 2x per week, Nizoral 3x per week, and Ginger Bodyshop 2x per week. If you use NANO, which I do not recommend because it is not proven, use it as your second shampoo of the day, 3x per week. I'm not going to use any other shampoo, unless I get that licorice and put it in baby shampoo and use it as a second shampoo of the day.

Try to spread stuff out:

M Nizoral
T Piroctone
W Coal Tar
Th Nizoral
F Piroctone
S Nizoral
S Coal Tar

Non-proven concoctions will be the second shampoo of the day. I won't bother with them though unless I get that licorice.

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

Do T/Gel 1% Coal Tar 2x per week, Nizoral 3x per week, and Ginger Bodyshop 2x per week. If you use NANO, which I do not recommend because it is not proven, use it as your second shampoo of the day, 3x per week. I'm not going to use any other shampoo, unless I get that licorice and put it in baby shampoo and use it as a second shampoo of the day.

Try to spread stuff out:

M Nizoral
T Piroctone
W Coal Tar
Th Nizoral
F Piroctone
S Nizoral
S Coal Tar

Non-proven concoctions will be the second shampoo of the day. I won't bother with them though unless I get that licorice.

how proven is coal tar? i see no studies on it...just speculation at this point.

 

[CCS]

how proven is coal tar? i see no studies on it...just speculation at this point.

*We just have a german study Bryan read where coal tar reduced sebum production. I got the impression it was by a good amount.
*We also have a patent (which is not proof by a long shot) saying that something in coal tar inhibits the production of NADPH, which gives a hydrogen to 5ar to put on testosterone to make DHT.
*We have the propecia 5 year trail, where everyone used coal tar the first two years, but not after that. The placebo group started out with slow loss, and got faster after a year, and much faster after that. I speculate after a year they got tired of the smell. Compliance is an issue in many studies.
*Finally, we have a strong link between scalp disorders and male pattern baldness, and find that adrogens drive many auto-immune problems, and coal tar shampoo is a very good shampoo for fighting dermatitis. However, so is zink P, which increases sebum production. So we can't get to excited about that.

So the coal tar is not proven, yet. I wish Bryan would post a translated version of the German study so we can know just how much it inhibits sebum production. We also need to google Coal Tar and NADPH to see if there are any other studies out there.

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

yah thats a lot of assumptions and speculation. so far the only PROVEN shampoos are PO and nizoral...right?

 

[CCS]

yah thats a lot of assumptions and speculation. so far the only PROVEN shampoos are PO and nizoral...right?

yes, that is right. I'd sooner dump minoxidil and licorice in my baby shampoo than use nano, but I do agree the Coal tar is not proven at least till Bryan posts that study. Even then we don't know if it inhibits NADPH, or just does the same thing as finasteride. We don't know if it synergistic just yet.

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

yah thats a lot of assumptions and speculation. so far the only PROVEN shampoos are PO and nizoral...right?

yes, that is right. I'd sooner dump minoxidil and licorice in my baby shampoo than use nano, but I do agree the Coal tar is not proven at least till Bryan posts that study. Even then we don't know if it inhibits NADPH, or just does the same thing as finasteride. We don't know if it synergistic just yet.

why are you so against nano?

did you not see the photo on his sight?

 

[rickbull83]

This T/gel coal tar shampoo sounds interesting.

Is this the shampoo in question?

http://www.auravita.com/products/AURA/NEUT10191.asp

Regards

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

yah thats it...and btw, like we said there are no studies...this is all speculation so dont get your hopes up too high.

 

[Bryan]

why are you so against nano?

did you not see the photo on his sight?

Yeah, I'm baffled as to why CCS is so against NANO, too. I know he doesn't like the fact that there are no formal studies on its use for hairloss, but it's been a staple in Dr. Proctor's products for literally decades, since the beginning, and there's also a Japanese patent on a NANO derivative for balding. Dr. Proctor has always said that NANO works the way he says it does, and it's never even been a subject of controversy, going all the way back to the early days of alt.baldspot. I have absolutely no reason to doubt Dr. Proctor's word or judgement that NANO stimulates hair growth.

 

[Strat54]

CCS wrote:

Do T/Gel 1% Coal Tar 2x per week, Nizoral 3x per week, and Ginger Bodyshop 2x per week. If you use NANO, which I do not recommend because it is not proven, use it as your second shampoo of the day, 3x per week. I'm not going to use any other shampoo, unless I get that licorice and put it in baby shampoo and use it as a second shampoo of the day.

I use a shampoo (2x week) called Kerium DS Intensif from La Roche Posay (L'oreal).
It has Piroctone olamine 1% & Salicylic acid 1.4%.
It foams very well. A 125ml bottle last around 11 months (buzzcut).

COMPOSITION
Ingredients / Concentrations:
AQUA / WATER, SODIUM LAURETH SULFATE ?29%, COCAMIDE MEA ?5%, CAPRYLOYL GLYCINE, COCO-BETAINE ?5%, LAURETH-5 CARBOXYLIC ACID ?5%
SALICYLIC ACID ?1.4%, COCAMIDE MIPA ?3%, PIROCTONE OLAMINE ?1%, ISOPROPYL MYRISTATE, BUTYLPARABEN ?0.1%
CAPRYLOYL SALICYLIC ACID ?1%, ETHYLPARABEN ?0.1%, HEXYLENE GLYCOL ?2%, IODOPROPYNYL BUTYLCARBAMATE ?0.1% ISOBUTYLPARABEN ?0.1%
METHYLPARABEN, NIACINAMIDE ?1%, PEG-4 DILAURATE, PEG-4 LAURATE, PEG-55 PROPYLENE GLYCOL OLEATE
POLYQUATERNIUM-10 ?2%, PROPYLENE GLYCOL ?1%, PROPYLPARABEN, SODIUM CHLORIDE, SODIUM HYDROXIDE ?0.6%, PARFUM / FRAGRANCE

You could get it from:
http://www.beautyplatinium.com/product_p/lrph04.htm
http://www.frenchcosmeticsforless.com/proddetail.php?prod=160010

NANO is not proven but it's my favorite shampoo. I can´t tell if it works or not, but it leaves my hair feeling thicker than any other i've tried so far.

 

[bubka]

Bryan we know you just love "Dr Proctor"

but when his products start showing remarkable results like finasteride or dutasteride have shown, more people like myself and probably ccs will put them in the same group, until then, he is in the :dunno: category

 

[CCS]

like I said in the other thread, I learned about NADH in biochemistry class recently. I also say the phosphate group on it. It is a proton donor for glucose metabolism. I'm sure it is the chemical that patent claims that Coal Tar inhibits. I think coal tar inhibits excess scalp skin growth primarily by slowing down metabolism, not so much by reducing 5ar effectiveness. Even reducing NADPH by 25% would not affect 5ar much, and certainly not DHT levels. I don't think we want to slow down hair follicle metabolism. NADPH and glucose metabolism are such a basic, critical cell function. While coal tar probably slows hair loss a bit, I bet it also slows regrowth. I think it just slows things down and keeps them near baseline, but very weakly.

So I'm not using Coal Tar shampoo on my head anymore. I'm just using it on my nose and ears, to fight big pores and the possibility that the nose and ears grow bigger as we age.

 

[bupolo]

So we're talking about using the T-Gel Coal Tar?

Is that the best T-Get shampoo to get?

 

[CCS]

no, the one with piroctone olamine in it is best for hair loss. it is the greasy one.