taboo: masturbation and negative feedback

s.a.f

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peter079 said:
12 year old boy starts jerking off twice a day and getting aroused 4 times a day, testosterone starts to build up, the body realise that something is wrong, this young boy should't be trying to make 6 babies a day and starts to counter-attack by releasing 5ar therefore more dht in the system that eventually find the hair follicles and the young man now 18 starts to prematurely loose his hair that he should have kept into his 30's at least.
Lol is this a joke? In ancient Rome they were at it 24/7 I guess they must have all been bald, same with pornstars. FFS how do you know how much guys were jerking off at any stage in history. You dont need p**rn to feel the urge its totally natural. And any real Dr will tell you its also harmless.
 

cuebald

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" By postponing ejaculation for seven days, testosterone levels spike. This testosterone spike is thought efficacious for muscle building and recovery. "

Abstaining from ejaculation can cause a rise in Testosterone (and hence more being reduced to DHT), which damages follicles and causes miniaturisation.

These masturbation theories are actually worse than harmless nonsense - they can cause more loss to fellow hair loss sufferers. I wish they'd stop being posted, but you will always find fools willing to believe. (remember all of those idiots rubbing their scalps daily? it was called "Balayam" :mrgreen:)

Desperation must really get to some people.
 

Draco88

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I use to go without doing it for months, yet i'm still losing my hair :jackit: i'd say i have a naturally low libido though.
 

NINJAX

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alot of people have been posting contradicting theories...im not saying to stop it completely...the point here is....EVERYTHING IN EXCESS IS BAD...the GOAL is to KEEP A BALANCE... keeping or creating HOMEOSTASIS(balance) in the body

when things are balanced it means they are well controlled...thus therapy becomes much easier... male pattern baldness isnt easy ...we continually try to finds causative sources to these personal problems which create havoc in our lives. Many have shut down even basic ideas but have forgotten to really go down to the basic root of it. male pattern baldness HAS NO CURE...WE ALL KNOW this! but the goal is to SLOW the process and reverse it with the knowlegde and current medications we have. IT has to be managed from A MULTI ANGLED APPROACH...not just through medication but other LIFESTYLE changes...many which create violent reactions

i know it can be upsetting attributing it to merely masturbation..but its not that simply male pattern baldness isnt that simple...HORMONES are such a mysterious thing even until today we still keep studying its processes.
 

peter079

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You don't neccessarily need p**rn as such. But you do need stimulation. I bet everytime YOU got aroused ( notice I didn't say masturbated), I bet you were thinking of something you saw or maybe even heard.
Second point that you missed was that I said you still need to be susceptible to hairloss genetically. And that you will still eventually loose your hair in the end, but hopefully not till later in life.

Once hairloss has started, the damage has already been done. I believe that young guys that start to loose their hair ( I mean real hairloss, rapid, diffused) by 19-20, the real damage/onset probably started a lot sooner like at 16/17 when the follicles first started to attract dht from the over stimulation as mentioned before. Abstaining now to hopefully regrow hair is futile.

Yes, testosterone levels may rise, but will eventually fall back to normal levels.
Just like with any long term addiction, there will be withdrawal symptoms.
But like I said, the damage has been done, abstaining now will not neccessarily help.
 

NINJAX

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peter079 said:
You don't neccessarily need p**rn as such. But you do need stimulation. I bet everytime YOU got aroused ( notice I didn't say masturbated), I bet you were thinking of something you saw or maybe even heard.
Second point that you missed was that I said you still need to be susceptible to hairloss genetically. And that you will still eventually loose your hair in the end, but hopefully not till later in life.

Once hairloss has started, the damage has already been done. I believe that young guys that start to loose their hair ( I mean real hairloss, rapid, diffused) by 19-20, the real damage/onset probably started a lot sooner like at 16/17 when the follicles first started to attract dht from the over stimulation as mentioned before. Abstaining now to hopefully regrow hair is futile.

Yes, testosterone levels may rise, but will eventually fall back to normal levels.
Just like with any long term addiction, there will be withdrawal symptoms.
But like I said, the damage has been done, abstaining now will not neccessarily help.


good point peter...

male pattern baldness is genetic...and for those who have it causing surges of hormones in the body will only speed it up... but these are for people with male pattern baldness and sensitive to dht...Brad pitt isnt one of them...
 

dougfunny

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NINJAX said:
alot of people have been posting contradicting theories...im not saying to stop it completely...the point here is....EVERYTHING IN EXCESS IS BAD...the GOAL is to KEEP A BALANCE... keeping or creating HOMEOSTASIS(balance) in the body

when things are balanced it means they are well controlled...thus therapy becomes much easier... male pattern baldness isnt easy ...we continually try to finds causative sources to these personal problems which create havoc in our lives. Many have shut down even basic ideas but have forgotten to really go down to the basic root of it. male pattern baldness HAS NO CURE...WE ALL KNOW this! but the goal is to SLOW the process and reverse it with the knowlegde and current medications we have. IT has to be managed from A MULTI ANGLED APPROACH...not just through medication but other LIFESTYLE changes...many which create violent reactions

i know it can be upsetting attributing it to merely masturbation..but its not that simply male pattern baldness isnt that simple...HORMONES are such a mysterious thing even until today we still keep studying its processes.

dude quit it with the fear mongering. every study i have read says that abstaining from masturbating increases testosterone. this means it speeds up balding.

also why are these threads always specific to masturbating? you realize sex has the same effect?

the correct title to the thread would be ejaculating and male pattern baldness. you see you have already completely destroyed your credibility just in the title of your post.
 

NINJAX

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i know it can be upsetting attributing it to merely masturbation..but its not that simply male pattern baldness isnt that simple...HORMONES are such a mysterious thing even until today we still keep studying its processes.[/quote]

dude quit it with the fear mongering. every study i have read says that abstaining from masturbating increases testosterone. this means it speeds up balding.

also why are these threads always specific to masturbating? you realize sex has the same effect?

the correct title to the thread would be ejaculating and male pattern baldness. you see you have already completely destroyed your credibility just in the title of your post.[/quote]

Doug u must not be reading what im writing... im observing u have a tunnel vision and all ur seeing is masturbation...good thing for pointing out that its ejaculation..heres a gold medal... the whole post was focusing on balance...not abstaining..keeping that in check?
 

dougfunny

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there is no need for balance or any evidence that suggests balance matters.

in fact that is by far the stupidest suggestion i have heard.

either it helps or it does not and whichever it does is what you should do if you really think a tiny difference in hormone levels makes any differences, which by the way it does not.

this masturbation being a cause of stuff like male pattern baldness is an urban myth that dates back thousands of years put forward by religious idiots.

today apparently you do not need to be religious, just an idiot.
 

NINJAX

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dougfunny said:
there is no need for balance or any evidence that suggests balance matters.

in fact that is by far the stupidest suggestion i have heard.

either it helps or it does not and whichever it does is what you should do if you really think a tiny difference in hormone levels makes any differences, which by the way it does not.

this masturbation being a cause of stuff like male pattern baldness is an urban myth that dates back thousands of years put forward by religious idiots.

today apparently you do not need to be religious, just an idiot.

doug u must not have had the results u had wished for and thats making u this negative all about it...male pattern baldness is hard and it really causes real stress...

im just sharing like all others here what we have observed to help us in our quest to gain back what was once ours...

good luck to you. ive had good results with this method..
 

s.a.f

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dougfunny said:
:shakehead:
We've been invaded by some real morons just lately. These people probably believe that exposing themselves to radiation will give them superpowers aswell.
 

Oknow

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Only one problem with your argument. I ejaculate frequently, yet I have more hair on my head at 24 (hitting 25 soon) then other guys on here - and yet I do have some degree of male pattern baldness -NW1.5 -- why is that?
 

Oknow

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peter079 said:
NW1.5?...phfff. That ain't hairloss.

Yes it is, only because it is not aggressive does not mean its not hairloss.
 

Nene

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The Idea that ejaculation can speed up hair loss to any significant level is so preposterous. I can't believe someone with a high school degree let alone a RN would actually give that theory any sort of credibility. Simply show me a study showing a correlation between infrequent ejaculation and hair loss from a reputable journal and then maybe I'll give it some iota of credibility. This is more voodoo stuff where people who are desperate for a solution to their hair loss will buy into anything that gives them hope of keeping their hair. :shakehead: You realize that this theory is really old right? Made up by people before we had science?
 

peter079

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Nene said:
The Idea that ejaculation can speed up hair loss to any significant level is so preposterous. I can't believe someone with a high school degree let alone a RN would actually give that theory any sort of credibility. Simply show me a study showing a correlation between infrequent ejaculation and hair loss from a reputable journal and then maybe I'll give it some iota of credibility. This is more voodoo stuff where people who are desperate for a solution to their hair loss will buy into anything that gives them hope of keeping their hair. :shakehead: You realize that this theory is really old right? Made up by people before we had science?

Show me a study that it doesn't speed up hairloss for the unfortunately dispositioned.
 

dougfunny

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peter079 said:
Show me a study that it doesn't speed up hairloss for the unfortunately dispositioned.

There is no study because the idea is so preposterous that no reputable journal or researcher is going to touch it with a ten foot pole.
 

NINJAX

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OK science turn!!! to DOUGFUNNY U are an idiot... "an empty can is noisier compared to one thats full"

Effect of Ejaculation (Sex) on Bodybuilding Gains
September 30th, 2007 by Paul Johnson

The question on whether ejaculation (or sex) before workouts will effect their strength or muscle gains, is a common question for many bodybuilders. Athletes have also have been debating this question for years. Some believe that ejaculation before an athletic event will help their performance, while others believe it should be done after or even abstained completely. In this article I will discuss the hormonal effects of ejaculation on the body and when (or if) it should be avoided

Effects on testosterone during sexual arousal and ejaculation:

Testosterone level have been found in research to rise in humans after sexual stimuli (such as sexually explicit pictures). One study like this was published in New Scientist 22 Aug 98 11, done by Ludwig Boltzmann Institute for Urban Ethology in Vienna. 10 men and 10 women viewed a 15 minute pornographic film. Men’s testosterone levels increased 100 percent afterwards, while women’s was 80 percent.

Another study published by Psychoneuroendocrinology. 1993;18(3):205-18 used sexually arousing films on 9 males. LH levels (stimulates testosterone production) and testosterone levels increased within 10 minutes of sexually arousal. Other studies have also shown, other types of stimuli may also increase testosterone levels and agression, such as holding a gun.

Studies dealing with testosterone levels and it’s effects during sexual acts and ejaculation, seem to be mostly done on animals. One study done on rats by the Instituto de Neuroetologia, Universidad Veracruzana, Xalapa, Ver., Mexico showed that after 2 ejaculations there was a steep rise in serum testosterone and remained higher even after 4 ejaculations in a row. Another study was done on stallions and mating by the Dipartimento di Scienze Cliniche Veterinarie, Sez. Clinica Ostetrica e Ginecologica Veterinaria. They found that testosterone levels rised 10 minutes after mating and then again 30 minutes into it. Cortisol levels also increased during the mating.

A study by Department of Pharmacobiology, Centro de Investigación y Estudios Avanzados was done on rats to measure sexual satiety and androgen receptors. The rats were measured after a sexual encounter. They measured the testosterone levels afterwards and found no change. They also measured a drop in angrodren receptor density, in the MPOA-medial part of the brain. This receptor density returned 72 hours later. It appears from this study, the lack of sexual desire post ejaculation, may have been from changes in the brain, not from changes in testosterone.

A study by the Department of Reproductive Biology, Universidad Autonoma Metropolitana-Iztapalapa found that testosterone levels stayed the same or rised, after various types of sexual encounters in male rats. The more experienced rats had a large increase in testosterone post-ejaculation, which remained even 24 hours afterwards. The sexually inexperienced rats however, had little change in testosterone post sexual encounter. This study suggests that sexual experience and execution, may play a role in the rise of testosterone.

Long term testosterone levels from abstaining ejaculation:

The only study I could find measuring testosterone levels of men who didn’t ejaculation for extended periods of time, was research done by chinese researchers, J Zhejiang Univ Sci. 2003 Mar-Apr;4(2):236-40. The study was done on 28 men who were told to not ejaculate for entire week. It was found that for first 6 days testosterone levels did not change. However, on the 7th day of abstaining, testosterone levels jumped up by nearly 50%. It then declined quickly after that day, therefore abstaining from ejaculation had no long term rising effect.

Summary:

What do these studies on animals and humans tell us about the relationship between testosterone and sexual activity? Many people have always assumed that after sexual activity, males experience a drop in testosterone levels. There is no research we could find that points to a significant drop in testosterone post-ejaculation. In fact research tells us that the opposite seems to be true. Men will have significant jumps in testosterone levels from sexually arousing stimuli(and certain other types of stimuli). The research also suggests that sexual encounters and ejaculation, will not effect and may increase, testosterone blood levels.

Viewing sexually arousing material, without ejaculating, before working out should be beneficial for improving workouts. Ejaculating before working out, would probably not be ideal, since ejaculation also releases endorphins(pain killing) natural hormones in the body. This would in turn effect your strength and energy before your workout.

The chinese study also suggests that abstaining from ejaculation will not increase your testosterone levels long term and hence, not improve your bodybuilding gains. Recent studies are also showing a significant drop in prostate cancer risk, for men who more frequently ejaculate. According to current research, ejaculation (or sex) is not going to lower your testosterone.
 

Hoppi

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I still get very confused how people can entirely dismiss claims like this, to be honest I think more often than not it's potentially a fear of "what if!".

I do the same thing - if something shocks me or destabilizes my view of something, I find myself sometimes getting all defensive and trying to hold the new theory back. However I tend to learn over time that this isn't constructive, and I try to keep my mind open to things and learn, because that is the only way to truly progress :)

I believe that anything that effects sex hormones can have an affect on hair loss. I have also heard a couple of cases of men stopping their hair loss dead by abstaining, but then I have also heard of people stopping it dead by all kinds of weird mechanisms!

I dunno man, I had a bit of a struggle trying to outline the underlying causes for my hair loss, so for now I just intend to hold back DHT (and also possibly estrogen),hopefully regrow, and then return to all this stuff later as a potentially longer term health solution.
 
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