The destruction of Armando's sebum-back-up theory w/pictures

[Armando Jose]

Dear Michael;

I woul like very much the study about sebum if scientist would look at sebum in scalp hair and don't in forehead.

Respect at photos in bosley web, i also want to see a photo of the same patient passing the time, by example in 8 or 10 years after the procedure. Then, we could talk about it.

Armando

 

[I_Hate_DHT]

I am trying to say that sebum have a role in common baldness.

Anyone agree with this statement?

Armando

I say yes, you are right. Why? Because of self-experience.

The problem is that if someone says that he agrees, some stupid ***-holes will say "show me a study".. is like the automatic response we have in this forum nowadays.. like all people are in the same fashion of "show me a study"...

If someone says "no" I want to see a study. :lol:

 

[docj077]

[quote="Armando Jose":d5f46]I am trying to say that sebum have a role in common baldness.

Anyone agree with this statement?

Armando

I say yes, you are right. Why? Because of self-experience.

The problem is that if someone says that he agrees, some stupid ***-holes will say "show me a study".. is like the automatic response we have in this forum nowadays.. like all people are in the same fashion of "show me a study"...

If someone says "no" I want to see a study. :lol:[/quote:d5f46]

Studies establish a group response and control for variables. Personal experience and individual physiology and perspective skew pretty much any opinion with regards personal aesthetics on this forum. In other words, each person on this forum has to live with themselves everyday, so they think they know everything there is to know about their body. That's a fallacy of life.

That's why the scientifically minded people appreciate studies. They remove the personal element, which unfortunately, makes any given one of us wrong.

 

[I_Hate_DHT]

[quote="Armando Jose":07950]I am trying to say that sebum have a role in common baldness.

Anyone agree with this statement?

Armando

I say yes, you are right. Why? Because of self-experience.

The problem is that if someone says that he agrees, some stupid ***-holes will say "show me a study".. is like the automatic response we have in this forum nowadays.. like all people are in the same fashion of "show me a study"...

If someone says "no" I want to see a study. :lol:

Studies establish a group response and control for variables. Personal experience and individual physiology and perspective skew pretty much any opinion with regards personal aesthetics on this forum. In other words, each person on this forum has to live with themselves everyday, so they think they know everything there is to know about their body. That's a fallacy of life.

That's why the scientifically minded people appreciate studies. They remove the personal element, which unfortunately, makes any given one of us wrong.[/quote:07950]

When someone checks a study and it says that a treatment can stop hairloss, he starts on it... After 2 years in that treatment, he has not only got no success, but finish losing more hair and getting side effects. He noticed that like 50% of some hairloss forum had side effects.. The company claimed 2% though.

After this, we can say that, this individual stops believing in studies and starts believing in his own body and self-experience, because he understands, that after all, each body is a world and each mind a universe.

Like this individual, we have many more here.... Studies are far away of showing the truth for A LOT OF PEOPLE... Remember, we are humans, not cold numbers in marketed statistics....

 

[docj077]

[quote="I_Hate_DHT":29e10][quote="Armando Jose":29e10]I am trying to say that sebum have a role in common baldness.

Anyone agree with this statement?

Armando

I say yes, you are right. Why? Because of self-experience.

The problem is that if someone says that he agrees, some stupid ***-holes will say "show me a study".. is like the automatic response we have in this forum nowadays.. like all people are in the same fashion of "show me a study"...

If someone says "no" I want to see a study. :lol:

Studies establish a group response and control for variables. Personal experience and individual physiology and perspective skew pretty much any opinion with regards personal aesthetics on this forum. In other words, each person on this forum has to live with themselves everyday, so they think they know everything there is to know about their body. That's a fallacy of life.

That's why the scientifically minded people appreciate studies. They remove the personal element, which unfortunately, makes any given one of us wrong.[/quote:29e10]

When someone checks a study and it says that a treatment can stop hairloss, he starts on it... After 2 years in that treatment, he has not only got no success, but finish losing more hair and getting side effects. He noticed that like 50% of some hairloss forum had side effects.. The company claimed 2% though.

After this, we can say that, this individual stops believing in studies and starts believing in his own body and self-experience, because he understands, that after all, each body is a world and each mind a universe.

Like this individual, we have many more here.... Studies are far away of showing the truth for A LOT OF PEOPLE... Remember, we are humans, not cold numbers in marketed statistics....[/quote:29e10]

Until a drug finishes phase III clinical trials using thousands of people, the individual will always be a statistic. Especially when it come to the use of 5AR inhibitors for hair loss. Their use for hair loss combined with the unbelievable lack of mental stability that I encounter on hair loss forums creates ideal conditions for people to have side effects.

If you took everyone from this forum, divided them in half and gave one half placebo and other dutasteride in a double blind study, you'd see just how few the number of reported side effects truly are and how vulnerable hair loss sufferes are mentally. You'd see the truth, because you'd be removing the human element, which is always flawed.

The reported incidence of side effects on this site is so high, because everyone sits in front of the mirror and pays closer attention to their body all of a sudden once they start these drugs.

Everyone here either has body dysmorphic disorder or a conversion disorder (one person has a side effect, so everyone thinks they have it). That's why the side effects seem so common here.


Quite frankly, physicans are very aware of people with these disorders and that's why they are so hesitant to presribe anyone hair loss medications. It simply feeds the fires of the mental instability and narcissism that plagues men or even women with male pattern baldness.

 

[I_Hate_DHT]

I understand your point and I repect it, but I still believe that each individual is a dif. world.. Most docs talk of humans like they were talking of the stock market. Or they talk about statistics like they were looking at a chart and waiting for the dollar to fall to sell dollars and buy pounds.. in my opinion this sucks and like I explained above, stats are far away of the real picture. And you see the real picture when you interact with others suffering the same disease. I know the brain plays a role here like you said, but the difference between stats and the real picture, is HUGE to believe just in that.

But anyway, May I ask you why you quit Finasteride? I'm sure you explained this somwehere, but I can't find that thread.

Thanks.

 

[docj077]

I understand your point and I repect it, but I still believe that each individual is a dif. world.. Most docs talk of humans like they were talking of the stock market. Or they talk about statistics like they were looking at a chart and waiting for the dollar to fall to sell dollars and buy pounds.. in my opinion this sucks and like I explained above, stats are far away of the real picture. And you see the real picture when you interact with others suffering the same disease. I know the brain plays a role here like you said, but the difference between stats and the real picture, is HUGE to believe just in that.

But anyway, May I ask you why you quit Finasteride? I'm sure you explained this somwehere, but I can't find that thread.

Thanks.

I became hyperthyroid, which was confirmed by a high T4 and low TSH with a blood draw. Since stopping it, I no longer have thyroid problems.

And, by the way, physicians view people as a statistic, because any other perspective prevents them from curing disease. The mind plays funny tricks on a physician once they become too personal. You can be friends with a patient, but you can't be friends with their disease. Thus, you can't totally befriend them as the disease is part of the patient and demands respect above all other things.

 

[abcdefg]

I absolutely agree about hairloss victims becoming obsessed with it to the point of it becoming a disorder.

Are sebaceous glands stimulated to a much greater degree in say a mans scalp then say his forehead or somewhere else by dht or the 5ar enzymes? My head has lots of oily white stuff and i dont think its dandruff i suspect androgens are doing this and making my head itchy but nothing seems to say this that ive seen.

 

[Armando Jose]

Long hair after trasplant. Most of hair trasplanted persons, normally, wear long hair because the density is less than normal and they need cover the bald scalp.

Sofarsogood en hairsite forum

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/board ... scasc=DESC




On the other hand, the question could be:

have we a hair follicle or a pilosebaceous unit?

The second option is more precise in my opinion.

Armando

 

[michael barry]

Armando,

FOr the upteenth f*****g time,

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... D%26sa%3DN


Hair plugs stayed in 2 decades after implantation. Hair combed forward. Hair behind plugs fell out.


Your theory disproved with one picture.


DISPROVED Armando.

 

[Armando Jose]

Michael,

Here is an example that long hair in men can be useful to mantain the hair
http://the-light.com/mens/samson/4/samson.html



This one of the photos of the above link

APROVED

 

[Armando Jose]

www.ganarpelo.org/foro/download/file.php?id=1500
www.ganarpelo.org/foro/download/file.php?id=1502

Sorry to bump this post, but I see a new photo of young children that develop common hairloss, tibetan children in the tibet, It could be interesting have a photo of the crown area.


Anyone visited this area?

 

[bibz]

WTF is that thread?

 

[Armando Jose]

It is clear if you read the 8 pages, but the resumen is that some people like demostrate that my own common hairloss theory, where cultural issues is a key, is erroneous. If you are interested, please read it in
http://www.researchgate.net/publica...gering_or_causative_factor_of_common_baldness

 

[Armando Jose]

One more probe that problems with sebum is correlated with common hair loss
A recent publication show that alterations in the “quality” of scalp sebum can cause alopecia
“Loss of CerS4 protein leads to an altered lipid composition of the sebum, which is more solidified and therefore might cause the progressive hair loss due to physical blocking of the hair canal.”
It fits in my theory, not only blocking the hair canal but disturbing the travel of stem cells from the bulge area to the dermal papilla in the normal hair follicle cycling.
Ceramide Synthase 4 deficiency in mice causes lipid alterations in sebum and results in alopecia.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24738593

In the same line, there is another study
http://www.jbc.org/content/286/29/25922.full.pdf+html
[h=1]Normal Fur Development and Sebum Production Depends on Fatty Acid 2-Hydroxylase Expression in Sebaceous Glands[SUP]*[/SUP][/h][h=1]With interesting remarks:[/h][h=1]“Loss of FA2H significantly altered the composition and physicochemical properties of sebum, which often blocked the hair canal, apparently causing a delay in the hair fiber exit. Furthermore, mice lacking FA2H displayed a cycling alopecia with hair loss in telogen. These results underline the importance of the sebaceous glands and suggest a role of specific sebaceous gland or sebum lipids, synthesized by FA2H, in the hair follicle homeostasis.”[/h][h=1]“The delay in emergence of the fur during morphogenesis and anagen may also be caused by the sebum plugs blocking the hair tip”[/h][h=1]“To examine whether sebum plugs in the hair canal observed in histological preparations (see Fig. 4) might be due to altered physicochemical properties of the sebum, we determined the melting points of surface lipids isolated from wild-type and Fa2h[SUP]−/−[/SUP] mice. Melting begins at 37 °C in the case of wild-type sebum, whereas it was increased to more than 50 °C in the case of Fa2h[SUP]−/−[/SUP] mice”[/h][h=1]“This view is also supported by the observation that SG degeneration is an early event in chemotherapy-induced alopecia, which appears to precede hair loss (40).”[/h]10. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18079744?dopt=Abstract
J Invest Dermatol. 2008 Jun;128(6):1576-8. Epub 2007 Dec 13.
Phylogeny of the hair follicle: the sebogenic hypothesis.
Stenn KS, Zheng Y, Parimoo S.
[h=1] [/h]40. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16470179?dopt=Abstract
J Invest Dermatol. 2006 Apr;126(4):711-20.
[h=1]Doxorubicin-induced alopecia is associated with sebaceous gland degeneration.[/h]Selleri S[SUP]1[/SUP], Seltmann H, Gariboldi S, Shirai YF, Balsari A, Zouboulis CC, Rumio C.

 

[Diffuser44]

What is this a 7 year thread?

 

[Armando Jose]

There are many good antique threads, only you have to try to find out.
Baldness is not a new issue, even I see interesting studies from XIX century