The Inevitable, both for Good and Bad

[Lossfer]

I have been giving MBP some thought and thought I'd share those with all of you. For many of you reading this, and myself included, I think it is inevitable that, despite our best efforts, we are going to lose enough of our hair to be considered, by ourselves or others, bald. Its going to happen and there is nothing we can do about it. Even with finasteride and minoxidil and everything else its just not going to be enough to stop the loss. However, I also believe there is another inevitability and that is that there will be a genuinly effective way to regrow hair developed sometime in the future. The only question is when will this be. Therefore, we race against time trying to make that window of time during which we will be bald as short as possible. My guess is that in 7-10 years we will have that treatment. Maybe sooner, but certainly by 2014 we will have something. That won't be soon enough for many of us and we should accept the real possibility that at some time in the future we will have to live with baldness. But, we can do so with some solid hope that it won't be permanent. So, for now we work to hold the inevitable off so that the time we will have to spend as bald men will be as short as possible. Others, of course, will just make it, but I don't think I will and I would guess many others here won't either.

 

[Guest]

I have been giving MBP some thought and thought I'd share those with all of you. For many of you reading this, and myself included, I think it is inevitable that, despite our best efforts, we are going to lose enough of our hair to be considered, by ourselves or others, bald. Its going to happen and there is nothing we can do about it. Even with finasteride and minoxidil and everything else its just not going to be enough to stop the loss. However, I also believe there is another inevitability and that is that there will be a genuinly effective way to regrow hair developed sometime in the future. The only question is when will this be. Therefore, we race against time trying to make that window of time during which we will be bald as short as possible. My guess is that in 7-10 years we will have that treatment. Maybe sooner, but certainly by 2014 we will have something. That won't be soon enough for many of us and we should accept the real possibility that at some time in the future we will have to live with baldness. But, we can do so with some solid hope that it won't be permanent. So, for now we work to hold the inevitable off so that the time we will have to spend as bald men will be as short as possible. Others, of course, will just make it, but I don't think I will and I would guess many others here won't either.

If you include hair transplants into the equation, I don't agree with your original premise. I am 54 and not considered bald due to hair loss drugs AND some minimal hair transplant work over the years.

Re: the future, who knows? Given the progress over the last 20 yrs. I would agree with you.

 

[Redbone]

I disagree as well many men dont have the aggressive form of male pattern baldness your speaking of and thin slowly over time. Some poor bastards will loose it no matter what they do.

I believe the younger you are when it starts the worse chance you have of stopping it. Also if you get it early on before say Norwood 3 you should have an excellent chance of re-growing and Maintaining it. As to how long one can maintain that hair, I hear well over 7 years.

You seem to be taking a pessamistic approach on stopping it. I also agree with new treatments though. 2 semi effective products in the treatment and research of male pattern baldness (about 20yrs since pinpointing DHT) is quite sad.

 

[zak84]

that's retarded, like bruce said, you get a transplant or two (depending on your state, you can look fully natural. not to mention cloning, hairloss will be only among the poor people once cloning comes in. also, FUE is getting bigger and bigger (even though the chances of it failing to be the new standard has not passed), a FUE would dramatically increase the amount of hair you can transplant

 

[Axon]

My personal experience is in total contradiction to your skeptical predictions.

Keep in mind that I am one of the more cynical people you will ever meet.

 

[zak84]

even if it the chances were not in your favor, losing hope isn't going to help the situation one bit, so why bother?

"worrying is like trying to solve an algebra equation by chewing bubble gum"

furthermore, negative posts and realistic posts differ. this is a negative posts and is not very helpful, if you want to give up hope that's your choice (although not a good one), but it's pretty unethical to try to depress everyone else as well, please be more respectful

 

[Guest]

wt hell lossfer. I am tired of posts from people like you. Just because you dont have success, dont discourage other people with your "thoughts". Serously, why did you post that? To make other people feel hopeless? Regimens work and you dont know if someone will go completely bald. Just because your depressed dont drag other people with you. Please keep your negative comments to yourself.

And plus rogaine 5% and propecia have only been out around like 10 years and I heard of guys maintaining their hair since it came out and still going strong.

 

[Odelay]

I won't be rude to you, and happen to agree with what you are saying. Some people though are balding and bitter and they get hostile towards people even hinting at telling them to "just move on" with their lives. I know that I will be labled bald by the time a true solution comes out, unless it comes out in the next year, maybe a year and a half. I have tried the big 3 for going on a year and have less hair then when I started, so I am pretty much screwed unless I want to give Dutasteride a shot. And I have no intention of getting a regular hair transplant when hopes of cloning are very close. To be honest though I am not really all that bummed about being bald because I know that my baldness will be short lived due to cloning or some other treatment. Considering how far hair loss treatments have come from the 90's I am really encouraged about the next few years. Like the old saying goes, while I might not have won the battle I will win the war.

 

[Rubber Baby Buggy]

I can't wait for that day when I can just spend 5 seconds in the mirror combing my hair and be out the door.

 

[Lossfer]

The Inevitable--A Response

Hold on a minute! Some people here really do seem to have a big chip on their shoulder. I did not and do not wish to discourage anyone from pursuing their regimen. I don't think some of you read my post carefully and in the spirit in which it was intended. I am going to fight male pattern baldness as long and as hard as I can. What I really dislike is the fact that some people here can not take a detached and objective view of male pattern baldness and their circumstances. My point was that for some of us, and if you are not one then good on ya!, current treatments are not going to hold the line long enough. Its just not going to happen. We can hold it off for a while. finasteride, minoxidil and nizoral/Nioxin have help me hold on to more hair than I believe I would have otherwise, but its still going. I have made a decision to accept the real possibility that in the coming years I might lose so much that I will be considered bald or seriously balding. I'm going to do what I can reasonably do to push that day as far into the future as possible, but accepting that as a real possibility makes it easier to accept where I am now. Its easier in part because I also believe that in the coming years we will have something that will with all practicality be "the cure." I think that's pretty certain. Keeping in mind how long it takes for things to make it on the market etc. there might be a "window" of time during which I will be "bald" after fighting it and have no other recourse. Then, once the "cure" comes I will use it to regain what I have lost. Its a matter of losing the battle but, in the long run, winning the war. I'm sure I'm not alone.

 

[bombscience]

w0rd

I'm f*cked :lol:

 

[Odelay]

Ditto

Ditto on the fucked.


The Battle :thumbs_down: The War :thumbs_up:

 

[pop]

keep the faith guys.

Cloning will be here within 5 years.
Worst case you might need a small transplant for hairline,
and clone the rest.

The big 3 will soon be the little 3. In fact,
I have stopped using that stuff.

 

[jblig]

why did you stop using it? thats pretty ballsy, your banking your hair on something that may come out five years from now? well best of luck enjoy the next five years.....

 

[GourmetStyleWellness]

Lossfer, the problem with your comments is that you're using your own personal situation and making generalizations about the effectiveness of the treatments as a whole. Doing that is rought with innaccuracy and bad logic. Every treatment, no matter how proven it is, will have a group of non responders, or slow responders, or minimal responders ..... along with the fast, high, and great responders.

You made the statement that "they just wont hold the line". That's been proven wrong already with the clinical data, and hundreds of thousands of men are effectively holding the line and pushing the line forward with Propecia and Rogaine.

Pop, same goes for your post. Just because it didn't work for you doesn't somehow mean the vast majority it is working for that never post here, don't exist. Implying that people stop and do absolutely nothing, while they wait for a technology that may be *ready* in 5 yrs but on the market in 10 ... isn't wise either.

Hair cloning is still a hair transplant. Its still surgery. Its still going to be considered a major procedure, and many men will still opt for simply popping a pill that completely maintains their hair, over going under the needle. Hair cloning only eliminates the issue of not having enough donor hairs to transplant. It does not do anything for the issue of density up front, or minimizing the surgical aspect of the procedure. It will be a huge leap forward for hair transplant procedures no doubt, but popping a pill may still win out in the safety/convenience/cost factor.

Thanks to everyone who chimed in and corrected the perspective presented.

gourmetstylewellness.com

 

[pop]

j - I'm actually stopping because I don't think the sides I get warrant
the result. Plus it's my guess that within 5 years, and not 10, there
will be superior treatments.

gourmetstylewellness.com - I do think propecia works. I'm not knocking it. But anything
that eliminates my libido is too risky in my opinion.
Any surgery is also risky, but I would like my hormones to be correct.

Maybe I'm just in the unlucky 2%, but I wouldn't mind seeing a recount.

 

[Odelay]

Lol, talk about throwing your own perspective out there.

So cloning eliminates the donor problem but there is still an issue with density up front? Surely you jest. The whole point of cloning is that there will not be a density issue. They will most likely have to use donor hair to create your front hair line but that does not matter because you have a large supply even if your are a NW7. Just think the donor hair that would normally be used to fill in someones entire head can now just be used on the front.

Let's be honest, the current treatments we have now are going to become a thing of the past when cloning comes out. When presented with the option to either have a full head of hair in a few months but have to have minor surgery, or take pills and apply minoxidil to your head and possibly keep your already thinned hairline and possibly regrow a little, very few people are going to stick with the old. The only thing that might survive will be Propecia and that would be for the people just starting to lose their hair and can't afford cloning. By then I would suspect Propecia to be dirt cheap and an obvious answer for people saving up for the day they will need cloning.

 

[GourmetStyleWellness]

Lol, talk about throwing your own perspective out there.

Thanks for the sarcasm. Its not "my perspective". Its the perspective of many whom I respect and whom know more than you or I do on this issue.

So cloning eliminates the donor problem but there is still an issue with density up front? Surely you jest. The whole point of cloning is that there will not be a density issue. They will most likely have to use donor hair to create your front hair line but that does not matter because you have a large supply even if your are a NW7. Just think the donor hair that would normally be used to fill in someones entire head can now just be used on the front.

You missed the point entirely. I will repeat myself. Hair transplanted surgically has limitations. The skin can only take so much punching and grafting. There are issues related to scar tissue even where the new hairs are placed, and there are issues related to nerve endings and infection, etc. Having a billion hairs to transplant does not eliminate the density complications that surround current transplants. I didn't say you wouldn't have enough hair. In fact I said you would. I said there are still limitations to how much hair you can implant into skin in any given area. Its still going to be considered surgery, and surgery is always considered last resort, and its going to cost a minimum of $36,000 per procedure.

Let's be honest, the current treatments we have now are going to become a thing of the past when cloning comes out. When presented with the option to either have a full head of hair in a few months but have to have minor surgery, or take pills and apply minoxidil to your head and possibly keep your already thinned hairline and possibly regrow a little, very few people are going to stick with the old.

You're thinking very simplistically. As Ive said multiple times, its not as simple as "Hmm do I want a full head of hair or do I want to take Propecia for the rest of my life?" That is beyond simplistic. There is a *LOT* more to any surgical procedure than this. I listed several factors people will have to weigh into the equation in my other post above. Please re-read them.

However, if you are correct, which I disagree with you on, that Hair cloning instantly means a quick and easy and painless and cheap and non surgical and non complicated and 100% foolproof instant full head of hair, then yes.... you are right ... Propecia and all the other treatments will go immediately out the door. Why wouldn't they? Nobody would want them if that was the alternative.

I dont think its going to be available on the mass market in 4 years either. The only possibility I could be wrong is if Bazan's thing pans out.

gourmetstylewellness.com

 

[mediatech]

Re: The Inevitable--A Response

Its just not going to happen. We can hold it off for a while. finasteride, minoxidil and nizoral/Nioxin have help me hold on to more hair than I believe I would have otherwise, but its still going.

Have you added Folligen spay to your regimen? After combing these threads I'm starting to suspect this may be a key ingredient to many regimens. I'm using high dosages of Folligen spray with Emu Oil and experiencing great results. I'll start using Rogain and Propecia with Folligen if Folligen fails on its own... so far so good.

 

[Odelay]

Thanks for the sarcasm. Its not "my perspective". Its the perspective of many whom I respect and whom know more than you or I do on this issue.

Be that as it may this guy has a perspective that others, including myself, happen to agree with. So are you saying he, or anyone, can not share the way they see things if they are in the minority?

You missed the point entirely. I will repeat myself. Hair transplanted surgically has limitations. The skin can only take so much punching and grafting. There are issues related to scar tissue even where the new hairs are placed, and there are issues related to nerve endings and infection, etc. Having a billion hairs to transplant does not eliminate the density complications that surround current transplants. I didn't say you wouldn't have enough hair. In fact I said you would. I said there are still limitations to how much hair you can implant into skin in any given area. Its still going to be considered surgery, and surgery is always considered last resort, and its going to cost a minimum of $36,000 per procedure.

Lol, Billions, that's quite an exaggeration there. I totally agree that skin can only take so much at one time, but the number it would require to get a full head of hair is below that number. I am sure if you went into the office and got 80,000 new hairs put in at one time there would be some problems coming your way. Even with today's FUE transplants they can get hairs placed very close to what they are naturally, and after that heals if needed they can go back to that same area and add more. You can bet that the closer we get to hair cloning becoming a reality that so will doctor's ability to place hairs even closer together without as much damage to the scalp.

You're thinking very simplistically. As Ive said multiple times, its not as simple as "Hmm do I want a full head of hair or do I want to take Propecia for the rest of my life?" That is beyond simplistic. There is a *LOT* more to any surgical procedure than this. I listed several factors people will have to weigh into the equation in my other post above. Please re-read them.

I did read your previous post and you are building up a hair transplant to the equivalent of a "major procedure." When I think, and others, of a major procedure it would consist of something like heart surgery, replacing/removing an organ, and other "major" procedures . I hardly consider a procedure that I would be awake during, only took about an hour, and I could leave and go on about my day once it was over a major procedure. If by major procedure you meant it like a life changing procedure then I would agree, but I doubt you did. I believe you are putting too much thought into what people really want, and the choice would be as simple as I have stated it to be. You either get cloned hair or you stick with the old and eventually lose more and more hair. I would think that by the time hair cloning comes out it will be safe for everyone to have an operation done, if not then the government in that country really is slacking off. While there would no doubt be risks they would similar to those people are already taking by applying Minoxidil to their heads twice a day and taking their doses of Propecia once a day. I think anyone that has taken that first step and tried treating their hair loss would have no problem whatsoever in taking that next, and final step to getting their hair back.

I dont think its going to be available on the mass market in 4 years either. The only possibility I could be wrong is if Bazan's thing pans out.

Personally I know that the FDA here in The States is so slow when it comes to approving new treatments, so only God knows when it will be available for the mass market here. If/When it does come out I plan on hopping a jet to the first country I feel confident in their ability to look out for the safety of their people and let the drain on my bank account begin.