the most potent anti androgen or dht blocker

[ripple-effect]

Bryan you must be a propecia user? I'm sorry if that scares you, but it's the truth. You being angry isn't going to help anything.

Few points:

1.) It's not my chart.

2.) The hair count in Propecia users hits a peak at year 2 then it slowly starts to decline to baseline over a period of a few years as you notice the trend that is clearly depicted in the chart

3.) I am not disagreeing with you when you say "the difference in haircounts between Propecia users and placebo users continued to INCREASE over a full FIVE YEARS." This goes exactly along with what the chart shows...so stop bringing that point up. The reason this is the case is because as you notice in the chart....the difference between placebo and Propecia users INCREASE because of how exponentially fast the placebo users continue to lose hair. This is why the difference in hair counts makes it seems as if Propecia continues to "gain" when in reality the placebo users are just losing hair quicker and Propecia is just slowing down the hair loss after year 2. This is why you can say in comparison to placebo Propecia users continue to "gain."

 

[ukmale24]

I went to see my Pharmacist the other day about going on finasteride. She told me that she's getting clients coming in after 2 years with regrowth.

 

[ripple-effect]

You are above baseline for many years using Propecia (~8-10) years. That is considered regrowth, but your regrowth doesn't continue to increase. It hits a peak at 2 years then the hair count starts declining back to baseline.

 

[Bryan]

3.) I am not disagreeing with you when you say "the difference in haircounts between Propecia users and placebo users continued to INCREASE over a full FIVE YEARS." This goes exactly along with what the chart shows...so stop bringing that point up. The reason this is the case is because as you notice in the chart....the difference between placebo and Propecia users INCREASE because of how exponentially fast the placebo users continue to lose hair. This is why the difference in hair counts makes it seems as if Propecia continues to "gain" when in reality the placebo users are just losing hair quicker and Propecia is just slowing down the hair loss after year 2. This is why you can say in comparison to placebo Propecia users continue to "gain."

Propecia users continue to do MUCH better than placebo users, even if their haircounts drop a bit below what they were at their 2-year maximum. And the difference between Propecia and placebo users almost certainly continues to increase, even many years later (10 years, 20 years, 30 years, 40 years). You need to stop making this ridiculous claim that the effectiveness of Propecia "dies out" after 2 years!! For the rest of their lives, a Propecia user will continue to gain over a non-Propecia user, even if all it does is very significantly slow-down further loss in the Propecia user.

 

[ripple-effect]

You need to stop making this ridiculous claim that the effectiveness of Propecia "dies out" after 2 years!!

I don't think it's a ridiculous claim. Maybe I shouldn't of said "dies out" but "starts to decline?" You know what I mean by the context of what I have already said. I am not saying propecia stops working cold turkey at year 2. If you notice the trend from year 2. Each consecutive year following there is a decrease in hair count from the previous year. This means once the hair count reaches baseline the user will be back to where they were just before using propecia. From there it will be all downhill. That is why I suggest finding another treatment or a treatment in addition to Propecia. I completely agree with you that as long as you use Propecia that in comparison to placebo he will most likely have some positive effect. I never said otherwise.

http://www.regrowshair.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/mean_change_crossover_data_chart.gif

One thing a propecia user could try is to try and take a break from the drug for a month or so every year. That should help keep your body from building a tolerance to it and help the effects of propecia last even longer.

 

[drex1999]

So after the propecia stops working (for me, after 12 years), what do you do next? What is the next step after propecia stops working. That is what I am on here to find.....

 

[Shift]

Switch to Dutasteride.

 

[Bryan]

One thing a propecia user could try is to try and take a break from the drug for a month or so every year. That should help keep your body from building a tolerance to it and help the effects of propecia last even longer.

I don't know of any scientific evidence that you ever build a "tolerance" to finasteride. I think it's a very bad idea to take a break from it for a month or so every year.

 

[ripple-effect]

One thing a propecia user could try is to try and take a break from the drug for a month or so every year. That should help keep your body from building a tolerance to it and help the effects of propecia last even longer.

I don't know of any scientific evidence that you ever build a "tolerance" to finasteride. I think it's a very bad idea to take a break from it for a month or so every year.

Then how else would you explain the chart we've been talking about the whole time? Why would propecia's effect increase hair count for 2 years and then start to decline after that?

So after the propecia stops working (for me, after 12 years), what do you do next? What is the next step after propecia stops working. That is what I am on here to find.....

Dutas is an option, but I would not recommend it because of the side effects you can get.
The most common side effects of Dutas include:
breast enlargement or tenderness (gynecomastia)
impotence (trouble getting or keeping an erection)
inability to have or maintain an erection
a decrease in sex drive (libido)
a decrease in the amount of semen released during sex.
difficulty ejaculating

I would recommend using a topical DHT inhibitor. No need to inhibit all of the DHT throughout your body when it's only the scalp DHT you need to stop.

 

[finfighter]

I would recommend using a topical DHT inhibitor. No need to inhibit all of the DHT throughout your body when it's only the scalp DHT you need to stop.

Me too, but not a weak *** topical like Revivogen which noone reports results from! I would suggest RU58841, which as at least as effective Finasteride and maybe more!

 

[Bryan]

I don't know of any scientific evidence that you ever build a "tolerance" to finasteride. I think it's a very bad idea to take a break from it for a month or so every year.

Then how else would you explain the chart we've been talking about the whole time? Why would propecia's effect increase hair count for 2 years and then start to decline after that?

Because the fundamental balding process continues to slowly worsen in many men, as the years go by. The basic fact that haircounts in men get worse over the years (it happens in _some_ men, but not all, which is still going to affect the overall average haircount, whether they use Propecia or not) is going to make people like you with a simple-minded approach to a single medical treatment always jump to the silly conclusion that your body is developing a "tolerance" to some simple treatment like finastride. But finasteride has been used for the treatment of BPH for longer than for male pattern baldness, and I've never seen any suggestion in the medical literature that we ever develop a "tolerance" to finasteride for THAT condition, either. I think finasteride continues to reduce the formation of DHT by inhibiting 5a-reductase the same way year after year after year, although the final condition of one's scalp hair may not always stay exactly the same over the years, just because of that.

 

[ripple-effect]

I've never seen any suggestion in the medical literature that we ever develop a "tolerance" to finasteride for THAT condition

The chart is a suggestion.

If you keep arguing that my view is wrong because there is no medical research on it...then what makes your view on why it happens right? What medical study shows that the decline is simply caused by aging? Truth is no one really knows... and as I clearly stated already, what I said already about tolerance is just my best guess otherwise I would not of asked for your opinion.

Anyway, either way you look at it now we both conclude that if you use finasteride your hair count will drop over time whether it's due to tolerance or not. Which is what I have been saying the whole time. It doesn't really matter why it happens. The fact is that it happens.

Your hair count drops over time on finasteride is the same thing as saying Propecia is losing effectiveness. It may continue to do the same thing in the body year after year but if the end result is that Propecia no longer preserves your hair can you really say it's effective for hair loss?

You just admittedly stated that the "fundamental balding process" continues to take advantage of people even while on propecia. I'm going to say it one more time to make sure it gets to you: This is the same as saying, Propecia loses effectiveness over time. And I thought I was ridiculous for saying that according to you? This is why many people start looking for alternatives just as that one poster earlier in this thread did. There is no denying that.

 

[Bryan]

Anyway, either way you look at it now we both conclude that if you use finasteride your hair count will drop over time whether it's due to tolerance or not. Which is what I have been saying the whole time. It doesn't really matter why it happens. The fact is that it happens.

If you use finasteride, your hair count will drop far less than if you don't use it at all. I don't know why you're so stuck on this. For the third or fourth time: haircount differences between Propecia and placebo users continue to INCREASE as the years (decades) go by, they don't DECREASE.

 

[ripple-effect]

How many times are you going to repeat yourself?

I am not disagreeing with you when you say "the difference in haircounts between Propecia users and placebo users continued to INCREASE over a full FIVE YEARS." This goes exactly along with what the chart shows...so stop bringing that point up.

When I say it drops, I'm comparing it to the previous years yet you want to twist what I'm saying and bring the placebo users in. Forget the placebo users for one minute and just look at the baseline and the propecia line on the graph. Then hopefully you can see clearly as to what I've been saying.


You repeated yourself 5 times:

The difference in haircounts between finasteride users and placebo users continues to increase with each succeeding year, it doesn't decrease.

Yes, it decreases a bit after a few years, but not NEARLY as much as people who don't use Propecia at all.

LOOK AT YOUR OWN CHART!! As I said earlier, the difference in haircounts between Propecia users and placebo users continued to INCREASE over a full FIVE YEARS

Propecia users continue to do MUCH better than placebo users, even if their haircounts drop a bit below what they were at their 2-year maximum.

haircount differences between Propecia and placebo users continue to INCREASE as the years (decades) go by, they don't DECREASE.

 

[Bryan]

I had to keep repeating myself, just to counter the misleading statements you keep making. The fact that average Propecia haircounts drop a bit after the second-year peak (on average) is irrelevant and misleading. What's relevant and significant is that the quality of a Propecia user's hair stays improved with much less loss for a much longer period of time (years or decades) than a person who doesn't use Propecia. Your original claim that Propecia "loses effectiveness" or will "die out" after a couple of years was simply laughable.

 

[ukmale24]

Ripple-Effect is saying finasteride's effectiveness halts completely after 2 years, saying it's just like taking no finasteride at all, right?

Bryan is saying, although it may lose it's initial effectiveness, it still works to a degree where you lose less hair but not as much as if you didn't take it all, right?

 

[hairhoper]

Well they're basically both agreeing what the chart says, but ripple-effect's initial wording was misleading.

- building a tolerance
- effectiveness 'dies out'

These are not accurate statements. It implies after 2 years the drug stops working, which is clearly not the case.

5+ years later you're still far better off than if you'd have never taken the drug, it's just that your hair counts peak at about 2 years.

 

[ukmale24]

I think that's what Bryan is trying to say.

 

[hairhoper]

Yup.

 

[ripple-effect]

Ripple-Effect is saying finasteride's effectiveness halts completely after 2 years, saying it's just like taking no finasteride at all, right?

Ok, I'm done with this thread. You guys are not reading everything I say because you really just don't want to believe it IMO.

I am not saying propecia stops working cold turkey at year 2. If you notice the trend from year 2. Each consecutive year following there is a decrease in hair count from the previous year.

Bryan is saying, although it may lose it's initial effectiveness, it still works to a degree where you lose less hair but not as much as if you didn't take it all, right?

Yea, and I'm saying that why use a drug that starts to lose power after a period # of years when there are topical DHT inhibitors that continue to work as long as you use it without decline? I am trying to make everyone know that there are alternatives out there that work. Propecia doesn't have to be your only option like alot of these people on these forums make it out to be.

These are not accurate statements. It implies after 2 years the drug stops working, which is clearly not the case.

You need to read everything I wrote out. I made sure everyone knew that I did not imply with those statements the way you say I mean. If I meant that when I said that then I would make it clear right now.

I also think it's "laughable" that these comments are coming from Propecia users. Of course your going to refuse to listen to that piece of info. Who would want to be on something that loses effectiveness over a period of time? And with side effects. That's no way to live. If I were you guys I'd probably be angry and frustrated too... not to the point of denial and rejecting the fact but accepting it and seeking better options(I know this because I was in your shoes once). I might want to add that a side effect of Propecia is brain fog which is why it seems silly to continue to keep this up with you guys.

Good luck in ya'lls fight with hair loss. I did my part in sharing what I know.

Happy to be an ex-propecia user(I stopped that drug over 3 years ago).