The science of intermittent fasting

[Afro_Vacancy]

Yeah i dont mean regarding hairloss but regarding visceral fat..with mice the results looked promising..but again..mice

No, I meant that what I learned from hair loss is that a lot of studies on herbal supplements are bogus. I assume that this applies to other industries as well.

Examine.com is arguably the best source for supplement information, you can try them.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

I broke my fast today with a light meal around 11:00am and a larger meal around 4:30pm.

This was delicious !

 

[rclark]

Fasting has definitely helped me.

I feel so much better. My fasting is just skipping dinner, and maybe running occasionally.

 

[kj6723]

I'm about to start IF, taking the 20:4 approach

Although I've done the low calories throughout the day thing, this will be my first time doing actual legit intermittent fasting protocol

Going to keep my eating window in the evening

 

[Saulus]

Ok ill start tommorow 36h fast

2 question:

1. Can i take finasteride without food

2. Can i mix apple cider vinegar with water to supress my hunger feeling?

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Ok ill start tommorow 36h fast

2 question:

1. Can i take finasteride without food

2. Can i mix apple cider vinegar with water to supress my hunger feeling?

1) yes.

2) yes. Tea, coffee, salt, are fine too.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[Saulus]

At 18h..tgis where the positive effects kick in right?

I just drank 2l water so far with a little bit apple cider vinegar in it

Should i drink more than usual in this 36h?

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

At 18h..tgis where the positive effects kick in right?

I just drank 2l water so far with a little bit apple cider vinegar in it

Should i drink more than usual in this 36h?

Drink when thirsty it'ss otherwise fine.

 

[Saulus]

Okay seems quit easy so far..could keep goin on for days..my mind feels very clear which is great..expected to have contration problems but the opposite is true

Only problem might be to sleep..i literalöy never went hungry to bed in my entire life

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Okay seems quit easy so far..could keep goin on for days..my mind feels very clear which is great..expected to have contration problems but the opposite is true

Only problem might be to sleep..i literalöy never went hungry to bed in my entire life

If you can do a second day, do so.

By day three you'd plausibly need salt.

Sleep is an issue for some people.

 

[koolaidshade]

if you guys regularly take vitamins/supplements, do you still do them on a long fast? do you take it with a fatty supplement since some nutrients are fat-soluble?

i'm asking because i take a whole food multivitamin supplement along with other antioxidants/antiaging supplements like resveratrol, nordic naturals fish oil, astaxanthin, curcumin, pumpkin seed oil

either way, taking zinc on an empty stomach makes me feel very sick, nauseous.

 

[Saulus]

If you can do a second day, do so.

By day three you'd plausibly need salt.

Sleep is an issue for some people.

Nah..i dont want to lose too much weights..i couldnt really sleep through..from 11 to 2 and then from 3 to 8

And at 9:30 i ate again..

Im over 2kg lighter then i was before the fast..

But feels legit i probavly will make this a weekly thing if i have no plans at sunday

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

if you guys regularly take vitamins/supplements, do you still do them on a long fast? do you take it with a fatty supplement since some nutrients are fat-soluble?

i'm asking because i take a whole food multivitamin supplement along with other antioxidants/antiaging supplements like resveratrol, nordic naturals fish oil, astaxanthin, curcumin, pumpkin seed oil

either way, taking zinc on an empty stomach makes me feel very sick, nauseous.

Vitamins can be stopped. There's no need to ever take vitamins seven days a week unless you have a deficiency.

 

[koolaidshade]

I did an unintentional 36 hour fast last week, felt good and had lots of energy, though i woke up in the middle of the night after 2 hours of sleep and couldnt go bck to sleep so i just went to the gym at 5 AM.

made the mistake of getting breakfast before work, made me really tired before noon even came by.

now im trying to do it again, but eating bone broth with spices, decaf coffee, tea, some gelatin

 

[SteveTabernack]

Aspartame is bad.

What are you basing this assertation on?

We are talking about one of the all time most studied food ingredients that has consistently passed with flying colors.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

This is different than most of what I've discussed, but some may find it interesting.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesal...-live-longer-by-severely-restricting-calories

You May Live Longer By Severely Restricting Calories, Scientists Say
April FultonApril 2, 20185:00 AM ET

Cutting back up to 25 percent of your calories per day helps slow your metabolism and reduce free radicals that cause cell damage and aging. But would you want to?

VisualField/Getty Images
Research has shown that sharp reductions in the amount of food consumed can help fish, rats and monkeys live longer. But there have been very few studies in humans.

Now, some researchers have found that when people severely cut calories, they can slow their metabolism and possibly the aging process.

Clinical physiologist Leanne Redman, who headed the study at Pennington Biomedical Research Center in Baton Rouge, says the first challenge was finding people willing to take part. After all, they would have to cut their typical plate for breakfast, lunch and dinner by up to 25 percent.

And, she says, none of them were overweight.

Ultimately, she recruited 53 healthy volunteers. One-third ate their regular meals. The rest were on the severe calorie reduction plan for two years.

"I don't know if you understand the rigor of what it means to do calorie restriction every day," she says, but the volunteers were committed.

Not surprisingly, the people cutting calories lost quite a bit of weight — on average, 25 pounds. Those in the control group gained as much as 4 pounds.

But weight loss was not the point. Redman wanted to know whether this dramatic reduction in calories could affect how quickly people age.

For testing, participants spent 24 hours in special rooms that measured their metabolic rates via gas, oxygen and carbon dioxide and how it changed over time.

Redman noticed that for those on the restricted diet, their metabolism slowed and became more efficient.

"Basically it just means that cells are needing less oxygen in order to generate the energy the body needs to survive; and so the body and the cells are becoming more energy efficient," Redman explains. And if less oxygen is needed to burn energy, then dangerous byproducts of that burning — free radicals — can be reduced.

"Oxygen can actually be damaging to tissues and cells, and so if the cells have become more efficient, then they've got less oxygen left over that can cause this damage," she says. And that damage can accelerate aging.

The study was published in the journal Cell Metabolismlast month.

Now, these findings don't directly prove that drastic calorie-cutting will actually help people live longer. People would have to be followed for their lifetimes to prove that. But the study did find that blood pressure, cholesterol and triglycerides were lower in the group on severe calorie restriction. When those numbers are high, they can lead to life-shortening diseases.

The challenge is, most people may not be able to do a severe calorie-restricted diet, or even want to do it. Lowering metabolism can cause other problems.

Biochemist Valter Longo, who studies longevity at the University of Southern California, says severely restricting calories for a time can mean you're more likely to gain weight in the end.

"Basically, you have to eat progressively less to maintain the same weight."

Most Americans struggle with carrying around too much weight, which can cause countless health problems.

"For most people, if you consider 70 percent of Americans are either overweight or obese, then you can see how, for most people, this would be a big problem," Longo says. It could lead to more "yo-yo dieting," where people who go off the diet eat more and return to their previous weight or even gain more weight.

He is also concerned about the potential for muscle loss and a weakened immune system in those on severe calorie-restricted diets.

Instead of chronic calorie restriction, Longo is a proponent of mini-fasts. These are short reductions in calories to just 900 a day for five days a month, which he says have the benefits of fasting without the potentially negative long-term effects. In fact, he wrote the book on it: The Longevity Diet. Longo stresses the importance of eating more fruits and vegetables and less meat.

It may not ultimately lengthen your life, he says, but it can certainly help you maintain a healthy weight and avoid the kinds of chronic illnesses that can shorten it.

These practices are not for everyone. If you have a history of eating disorders check with your doctor before starting any new regimen.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

What are you basing this assertation on?

We are talking about one of the all time most studied food ingredients that has consistently passed with flying colors.

Sorry I had missed your post a while back, and had not checked on this thread in a while.

There are multiple arguments against artificial sweeteners. For example, one of the studies discussed in the book Brainmaker (I don't have the book with me) compares type-II diabetes rates among soda drinkers and diet soda drinkers. The diet soda drinkers have higher rates. That may be because of the aspartame itself, because of its effects on insulin sensitivity, or because the taste of sweetness (that's what it is) stimulates appetite. It's not clear, but either way it's a bad idea.

Aspartame passes tests because its decay products are not harmful, and it doesn't cause a large instantaneous rise in either glucose or insulin. That is true of most artificial sweeteners. However, they still seem to perform badly in long-term studies, plausibly because of their intended effect -- they interact with the sweet receptor on the tongue, which may affect other things.

Here's a study on a related sweetener, Sucralose. It didn't affect insulin, it affected insulin sensitivity. The subjects who consumed it had a harsher response to a glucose response test:
http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/no...se-insulin-resistance-in-those-who-are-obese/

Here's a review, maybe it's the same one quoted in Brainmaker lol:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3772345/

Now, if you're intended response is to ask for more studies, don't even bother, I'm not interested in providing countless references from google that you can find yourself. At this point there's no need, people who consume a lot of artificial sweeteners tend to have inferior outcomes, even if one subscribes to the simplest explanation that it stimulate one's sweet tooth.

Sometimes, you can cheat nature, but not here.

I make one exception, which is that I chew sugar-free gum. It's good for my teeth, enjoyable, and the dosage is hopefully low.

 

[rclark]

Sorry I had missed your post a while back, and had not checked on this thread in a while.

There are multiple arguments against artificial sweeteners. For example, one of the studies discussed in the book Brainmaker (I don't have the book with me) compares type-II diabetes rates among soda drinkers and diet soda drinkers. The diet soda drinkers have higher rates. That may be because of the aspartame itself, because of its effects on insulin sensitivity, or because the taste of sweetness (that's what it is) stimulates appetite. It's not clear, but either way it's a bad idea.

I hope this isn't true, because if it is, I'm going to be FUCKED.

Hope isn't going to get me out of it though. Good post!

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

I finally got around to reading this study:
https://www.nature.com/articles/cr2017126
Intermittent fasting promotes adipose thermogenesis and metabolic homeostasis via VEGF-mediated alternative activation of macrophage

Their main result, achieved with multiple supporting arguments, is that a lot of the advantages of intermittent are due to increased metabolism which is caused by the browning of white adipose fat, which is caused by increased VEGF expression in white adipose fat, as the ratio of M2:M1 macrophages increases. A similar process as might happen when exposed to cold temperatures or through extensive exercises.

They had four groups of mice following two different diets and two different eating schedules. Half the mice ate for two days and fasted for 1 day while keeping total calories fixed. That's easier to arrange in micr than in humans. The mice that fasted ended up lighter regardless of what they ate, and the difference was in fat mass, as the lean mass did not change. The fasting mice had better scores on glucose tolerance, insulin tolerance, homa-IR, and liver function.

The increased metabolism is most pronounced on eating days, which was monitored using calorimetry and the rate of oxygen consumption. They could suppress the advantages of fasting by two thirds by raising the ambient temperature to 30 celsius (86 Fahrenheit).

They did a genetic analysis of gene expression and found that a lot of the genes affected by fasting are associated with the immune system and inflammation. I wonder if that explains why a lot of people with auto-immune conditions do particularly well with fasting.

To test their VGEF model, they got some mice for which this pathway is suppressed, I think (Page 8). Fasting exhibited no benefit for those mice.

Here's an H&E stained section photograph and a toy diagram of the process that they may have identified, from their Figures 1 and 7, in the first one you subcutaneous see white adipose fat, visceral adipose fat, and brown fat:

This is, in my opinion, a good study on why fasting yields metabolic benefits, as they kept total calories fixed and did a good job of isolating a single variable.

tldr; For the people who like the simplified "calories in, calories out" model, they can think of it this way: fasting increases calories out, by making it easier for body fat to be converted into energy.