Theory: Cooked Fat =DHT(Dihydrotestosterone) Baldness

[DammitLetMeIn]

I dunno if it contributed. But now that I stopped eating out, I have no hairloss. At least thats what I think. I didn't eat fast food for every meal, just once a day.

how much have you lost (hopefully not too much)!!?

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

Nope, I'm a NW2 at most. Thing is, NO history of hairloss in my family.

good sh*t man! good sh*t! lay off those big macs tho, y'hurd!

 

[HLTguest]

Concerning the japanese, it may be a combination of both diet and genes.

As was stated Pre-ww II japanese men had lower rates of baldness I believe. In combination with possibly having better genes than caucasians, they did indeed eat a less fatty western style diet at that time. There is something that is possibly more significant though. I think many had a lot of green tea and soy. The jury is still out on whether these things may slow the balding process. They do have hormonal effects. They may do nothing though as far as hairloss is concerned nobody knows for sure. Perhaps asian people have better capacity for producing equol from soy due to genetics...or again, it could be diet that helps with this...or a combination of genetics and diet.

If it is true that japanese descended americans have higher rates of baldness, it is interesting that they may be eating a diet much higher in fat, and it could be possible that they do not take soy or green tea like their ancestors did. This is all speculation. Soy and green tea may not have an effect on hair loss. They may have a little effect or even a moderate effect in some people. Nobody really knows.

 

[HLTguest]

Generally though, I am skeptical about collective diet as a whole having any real effect. There are health/nutrition nuts who are thinning greatly or are completely bald. And there are very fat or even obese people who have very full heads of hair. And there are skinny homeless folks who still have a nw1.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

Concerning the japanese, it may be a combination of both diet and genes.

As was stated Pre-ww II japanese men had lower rates of baldness I believe. In combination with possibly having better genes than caucasians, they did indeed eat a less fatty western style diet at that time. There is something that is possibly more significant though. I think many had a lot of green tea and soy. The jury is still out on whether these things may slow the balding process. They do have hormonal effects. They may do nothing though as far as hairloss is concerned nobody knows for sure. Perhaps asian people have better capacity for producing equol from soy due to genetics...or again, it could be diet that helps with this...or a combination of genetics and diet.

If it is true that japanese descended americans have higher rates of baldness, it is interesting that they may be eating a diet much higher in fat, and it could be possible that they do not take soy or green tea like their ancestors did. This is all speculation. Soy and green tea may not have an effect on hair loss. They may have a little effect or even a moderate effect in some people. Nobody really knows.

So why not just cut out the bad 'American' fats, eat soy and drink green tea?

Generally though, I am skeptical about collective diet as a whole having any real effect. There are health/nutrition nuts who are thinning greatly or are completely bald. And there are very fat or even obese people who have very full heads of hair. And there are skinny homeless folks who still have a nw1.

Most health nutrition nuts still tend to eat a lot of cooked fats whether its in milk yoghurts or chicken. There are also alot of health gurus with positively great hair. The question is, would the thinning health gurus be thinnning if they didn't eat cooked fat and force their 5 alpha reductase up?

Yes there are obese people who have full heads of hair but it may be the case they're not sensitive to DHT. There are also plenty (prolly many many more) overweight guys who eat cooked fats and are balding.

 

[HLTguest]

So why not just cut out the bad 'American' fats, eat soy and drink green tea?

Its possible that might help. But there is no conclusive evidence. The problem is with equol production and dosing. There are many unanswered questions about this. Who produces equol and who doesn't and more importatnly why?

I posted a vague study a while back that stated Green Tea alone raised DHT and tesosterone levels a lot if taken by itself. But the same study also said when taken with soy, both reduce testosterone and dht levels. It all had to do with serum concentrations and I think it was a mice experiment. I don't know much about this study or its validity in relation to humans and baldness.

However it should be noted that the BBC had a headline saying:

Soy 'stops cancer and baldness'

Scientists have claimed that eating soy could help prevent men from developing prostate cancer and from going bald.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3607815.stm

So I don't think this soy thing should be completely dismissed. There seems to be some evidence to suspect that soy might slow the balding process in some individuals, that is if their bodies can produce enough equol for there to be any effect.

As far as the fatty diet goes, I think its a good idea in general to avoid diets high in fat and cholesterol from animals sources. I think most of your diet should be based on whole grain, lean red meats, low fat poultry, fruits, vegetables, fish etc. It may never be known how this affects your hair, but you will be much healthier anyway if you stay away from highly processed foods, bad kind of carbs, high fat, and cholesterol. On top of the health benefits of this, I can't see how it could actually hurt your hair.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

Why our DHT/5alpha reductase rise up then? its GOT to be diet

and Dr Michael Colgan says all animal meats are loaded with the potential for creating DHT. so yeah I'm cutting out eating dead animals altogether for a while. soy is a good look tho.

will let y'll know how i get on

 

[MPBWarrior]

i'm a vegetarian, yet i'm a member of this forum and i take finasteride.... so maybe it does raise DHT, but probably not to a significant extent.

 

[tchehov]

Concerning the japanese, it may be a combination of both diet and genes.

As was stated Pre-ww II japanese men had lower rates of baldness I believe.

Two atomic bombs can't have helped.

 

[docj077]

You can be fat without eating fat. I.e. you can eat too much carbohydrates.

However, cooked fats act as a hormone and it is well documented that they cause DHT levels to shoot up.

Isn't DHT what most people says causes baldnesS?

dude if your follicles are sensitive to DHT, then even having a minute amount of it will cause your hair to fall out. Regardless of if you stick to eating no fat, you will still have DHT levels floating in your blood naturally..it will still cause ur hair to fall out. Working out increases test. levels, thus DHT levels...So by your theory every man in your gym is increasing his DHT and thus will go bald.

NO. Not every man, MOST MEN in fact are not overly sensitive to DHT...so increasing this crap in their blood makes no difference...eating fat foods..no difference..juicing like Jose Canseco-- no difference.

You are quite definitive in your response.

Isn't it true that 96% of all men experience at least some form of male pattern baldness after the age of 13.

if you have a flow of nutrients to your scalp and a small amount of DHT is blocking/damaging your capillaries you may be able to retain a good amount of hair.

surely then a large amount of DHT would restrict bloodflow to follicle even further.

Personally, I think spending too long in the gym does cause hair loss from cortisol.

Hair loss isn't caused by increased DHT levels. There are numerous hair loss forums on the internet and any given one will have a person that shows their test results for their hormones including their DHT and testosterone levels. What you'll see is that low DHT and testosterone levels are actually fairly common in the hair loss community.

Hair loss is directly determined by how sensitive you are to androgens. Your sensitivity is determined by triplet repeat mutations in the androgen receptor gene on the x chromosome.

It's the downstream effects caused by DHT binding to the androgen receptor that causes hair loss.

 

[docj077]

Why our DHT/5alpha reductase rise up then? its GOT to be diet

and Dr Michael Colgan says all animal meats are loaded with the potential for creating DHT. so yeah I'm cutting out eating dead animals altogether for a while. soy is a good look tho.

will let y'll know how i get on

The type of mutation that causes a defective androgen receptor gene is cumulative throughout the generations, so each following generation will potentially have male pattern baldness that is worse than the previous generation. Just like any other disease with a triplet repeat mutation.

 

[Bryan]

Re: Cooked Fat = DHT (Dehydrotestosterone) = Baldness

Dr Michael Colgan states that cooked fat is the key raiser of DHT and that anyone wishing to lower DHT should avoid animal fat.

Can you post a medical reference or citation for that claim about "cooked fat" and DHT?

Bryan

 

[Guest]

Your sensitivity is determined by triplet repeat mutations in the androgen receptor gene on the x chromosome.

It's the downstream effects caused by DHT binding to the androgen receptor that causes hair loss.

Are you saying it's inherited from the mother?

My mother's brother and her father both have full heads of hair at ages 55 and 82. Yet I am going bald.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

i'm a vegetarian, yet i'm a member of this forum and i take finasteride.... so maybe it does raise DHT, but probably not to a significant extent.

Cooked fat is what raises 5 alpha reductase DHT not specifically and ONLY animal fats.

Some people may only need a slight rise in their DHT levels before losing hair whilst others may need a significant amount. The key thing though is that DHT levels have been raised and its cooked fats which cause it.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

Hair loss isn't caused by increased DHT levels. There are numerous hair loss forums on the internet and any given one will have a person that shows their test results for their hormones including their DHT and testosterone levels. What you'll see is that low DHT and testosterone levels are actually fairly common in the hair loss community.

Hair loss is directly determined by how sensitive you are to androgens. Your sensitivity is determined by triplet repeat mutations in the androgen receptor gene on the x chromosome.

It's the downstream effects caused by DHT binding to the androgen receptor that causes hair loss.

Its not that you need particularly HIGH 5 alpha-reductase/DHT, its just that you need a level which your body is not comfortable with.

And whilst there may be cases where too much DHT is not the cause, its fairly safe to say that DHT is the cause in the majority of cases as proved by the effectiveness of Finasteride/Duta.




read this an tell me what u think:

In a frequently noted study, researcher Masui Inaba documented his findings in a report illustrating this phenomenon in action. The study observed higher incidents of hair loss among Japanese men who ate Westernized diets (i.e. far more red meat than their peers). With more animal fat in their diets, Inaba illustrated that the dramatic increase led to an increased incidence of hair loss. His research indicated that higher levels of fat cause oil glands in the hair follicle to grow, thereby producing more DHT and more damage to hair follicles. From a molecular point of view, baldness is seen as a hormonal imbalance. It is widely accepted that the hormone DHT (Dihydrotestosterone), the bi-product in the breakdown of testosterone, is the principal factor in hair loss. As a result, compounds capable of lowering DHT levels are viewed as having a beneficial effect in the treatment of baldness, including dietary restrictions that aid in reducing the effects of DHT.

Although controlling dietary intake is more challenging than using medication, it doesn’t have any negative side effects. Many individuals have reported that changing their diet has resulted in helping to control hair loss, especially when it was done in combination with compounds that limit the production of testosterone DHT.

Steering clear of the Western diet is one of the best ways to avoid and defend against baldness. By introducing low-fat protein sources, such as non-fatty fish, chicken, turkey, and soy products as well as complex carbohydrates from fruits, vegetables, and beans, into a diet rich in fatty acids can be effective in helping control hair loss. By utilizing a healthy diet in tandem with drug and herbal therapies, individuals can greatly increase the odds of their success.
Eat sizeable portions of fruits, vegetables, and beans. Don’t emphasize potatoes, pasta, and bread. These foods quickly turn to glucose, spinning insulin levels out of control as blood sugar levels rise rapidly and fall just as quickly. This compromises the body’s ability to regulate hormone levels in the blood. Such foods should be kept to a minimum.

http://www.purehealthandbeauty.com/nutr ... /tips.html

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

Why our DHT/5alpha reductase rise up then? its GOT to be diet

and Dr Michael Colgan says all animal meats are loaded with the potential for creating DHT. so yeah I'm cutting out eating dead animals altogether for a while. soy is a good look tho.

will let y'll know how i get on

The type of mutation that causes a defective androgen receptor gene is cumulative throughout the generations, so each following generation will potentially have male pattern baldness that is worse than the previous generation. Just like any other disease with a triplet repeat mutation.

The genes for cancer are said to be inherited. That does not mean its going to happen. ITs patently obvious the way we live our lives through environment and diet is what turns the offending genes on and off.

E.g. look at the guy who goes bald within 6 months after having hair his
whole life.

Using your theory, it was 'just his time' whereas its more than likely something he's done which has caused the change.



Baldness
Hair loss is genetically determined, both for men and women, but foods may well affect how early in life it occurs. Harvard researchers found that men with the highest blood levels of a compound in the blood called insulin-like growth factor-1, are more likely to go bald. IGF-1 is found in milk and studies suggest that it passes into the human bloodstream of milk drinkers. Women with high insulin levels are also more likely to have male pattern baldness. High-fat, low-fibre diets interfere with insulin’s actions, forcing the body to make more and more insulin to compensate.

http://www.viva.org.uk/valentine/vava.html

Dude, diet and baldness are inextricably linked in susceptible individuals and 'fat' is the key factor.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

Re: Cooked Fat = DHT (Dehydrotestosterone) = Baldness

Dr Michael Colgan states that cooked fat is the key raiser of DHT and that anyone wishing to lower DHT should avoid animal fat.

Can you post a medical reference or citation for that claim about "cooked fat" and DHT?

Bryan

I have seen many which state that cooked fat pushes up 5 alpha reductase which creates DHT.

Baldness more rapid for those on a high fat diet
Baldness is more common in men with high cholesterol or heart problems than in men with healthy hearts. The reason is unknown, but likely explanations include common genetic factors and the fact that the same high-fat diet that elevates cholesterol levels also increases the action of male hormones on the hair follicles.

What matters may not be baldness itself, but how quickly baldness progresses. Men in the Framingham Heart Study were checked for baldness in 1956 and again in 1962, and over the next 30 years they were watched to see who developed heart problems. The results were reported in a recent issue of the American Journal of Epidemiology. Those whose hair loss progressed most rapidly were more likely to develop heart disease.

Reprinted from Good Medicine, No. 2, Spring 1996.

http://www.veg.ca/newsletr/septoct96/news_fall96.html

(1)

High serum cholesterol levels are known to increase 5 alpha reductase activity and increase binding of testosterone and DHT at receptor sites.

http://www.vibrantlife.co.uk/health_inf ... t_diet.asp

(2)

Studies have shown that diets rich with animal fats cause excessive amounts of testosterone to be released into the blood stream. Similarly, people who ate diets low in fat had significantly less testosterone released in their system. High levels of testosterone directly affect the amount of hair loss a person experiences. Research also indicates that high-fat diets limit vital protein binding globulins. These globulins keep testosterone inactive in the body until it is required. A bloodstream without such globulins means that more testosterone is ready to be transformed by the enzyme 5-alpha-reductase (present in hair glands) into DHT. With larger amounts of testosterone circulating in the blood, oil glands can increase activity, thereby providing the system with more harmful DHT. Interestingly enough, areas that frequently have problems with balding contain larger oil glands than areas not associated with balding.

http://www.purehealthandbeauty.com/nutr ... /tips.html

 

[Bryan]

Re: Cooked Fat = DHT (Dehydrotestosterone) = Baldness

Dr Michael Colgan states that cooked fat is the key raiser of DHT and that anyone wishing to lower DHT should avoid animal fat.

Can you post a medical reference or citation for that claim about "cooked fat" and DHT?

Bryan

I have seen many which state that cooked fat pushes up 5 alpha reductase which creates DHT.

Can you post a few of those?

Reprinted from Good Medicine, No. 2, Spring 1996.

High serum cholesterol levels are known to increase 5 alpha reductase activity and increase binding of testosterone and DHT at receptor sites.

I'm looking for an actual MEDICAL REFERENCE OR CITATION, not just something that you found on some health site. There are all kinds of claims made on those kinds of sites, some of which are dubious.

Studies have shown that diets rich with animal fats cause excessive amounts of testosterone to be released into the blood stream. Similarly, people who ate diets low in fat had significantly less testosterone released in their system.

http://www.purehealthandbeauty.com/nutr ... /tips.html

Again, I'm looking for MEDICAL REFERENCES OR CITATIONS, not just quotes from health Web sites.

Bryan

 

[abcdefg]

Its been said to many times there are lots and lots of counter examples to prove that wrong. In some people maybe it helps, but there are clearly people that eat horribly diets and have wayy more hair then people that are eating perfect.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

Its been said to many times there are lots and lots of counter examples to prove that wrong. In some people maybe it helps, but there are clearly people that eat horribly diets and have wayy more hair then people that are eating perfect.

Yes, because they're not genetically susceptible.

However, it is my argument that cooked fat is the trigger in genetically susceptible individuals.

It increases the DHT to a level which is imbalanced or beyond the comfort zone of the follicles of that individual.