Thinking of using Propecia

[glen_jai]

Hi chaps,
I'm new to the forum.

I've been on Regaine for many years on and off (since 2005). Started again consistently from March 2010. But since, my hair has been slowly declining, and now I am really thin all over the top.

It's pretty depressing seeing myself in mirror, so I am contemplating taking finasteride now.

Just want to get a feeler out there as to how many people are taking it, and also how many of you guys have suffered sides?

Thanks for any comments or advice.

Glen

 

[amalgamated]

sure go ahead if you want to risk chemically castrating yourself, including shrinking your dick and balls. women care how men ACT, not how they look. forget this site and your hair loss. i'm taking my time to do you a small favor and don't engage in online expository debates.

 

[Cassin]

sure go ahead if you want to risk chemically castrating yourself, including shrinking your dick and balls. women care how men ACT, not how they look. forget this site and your hair loss. i'm taking my time to do you a small favor and don't engage in online expository debates.

What you posted....

makes no sense.

 

[IrishFella]

sure go ahead if you want to risk chemically castrating yourself, including shrinking your dick and balls. women care how men ACT, not how they look. forget this site and your hair loss. i'm taking my time to do you a small favor and don't engage in online expository debates.

It would be best to ignore him.

Look up the studies, research the drug and then decide whether you want to take it.

 

[amalgamated]

9 years with ZERO libido after Propecia
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt ... f=3&t=6408

My Finasteride Nightmare
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt ... f=3&t=6206

Brazilian guy, 20 yrs old, 1 year of finasteride and after 7 months.. no recoverry
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt ... f=3&t=5847

My horrible experience
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt ... f=3&t=3565

New research finds finasteride (Propecia) causes penis shrinkage in rats
http://www.examiner.com/courts-in-balti ... nkage-rats

PERSISTENT SEXUAL SIDE EFFECTS FROM HAIR LOSS DRUG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZqDkI37CcU

http://blog.alanjacobsmd.com/alan-jacob ... uzzle.html

 

[Wuffer]

I've been on finasteride for 16 months. Had a few slight sexual issues when I first started (I’m not convinced that these weren't psychosomatic, a result of reading too much anti-propecia propaganda) but for the remaining 15 months I’ve been on it without a single issue. Sex drive is as strong as ever, and I haven't had any other problems other than very occasional testicular ache.

As for therapeutic effect, I have gone up at least a full Norwood level (from NW3V to strong NW2). I reached this at about 6 months, and have held strong from then on. My hair line is still not perfect, but it is very thick. My crown is almost completely filled in, and it’s difficult to tell that I was ever thinning.

Overall, I’ve had a great experience on Finasteride. It is not a perfect treatment, but it’s by far the best one we currently have available. Chances are you will have no issues on the drug and very positive results. Be sure to find a doctor that knows the medication, speak with him/her about the risks and benefits. There is some good information online as well, but there is also a lot of bad information. Make sure you remain objective when considering information available online.

 

[Wuffer]

9 years with ZERO libido after Propecia
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt ... f=3&t=6408

My Finasteride Nightmare
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt ... f=3&t=6206

Brazilian guy, 20 yrs old, 1 year of finasteride and after 7 months.. no recoverry
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt ... f=3&t=5847

My horrible experience
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt ... f=3&t=3565

New research finds finasteride (Propecia) causes penis shrinkage in rats
http://www.examiner.com/courts-in-balti ... nkage-rats

PERSISTENT SEXUAL SIDE EFFECTS FROM HAIR LOSS DRUG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZqDkI37CcU

http://blog.alanjacobsmd.com/alan-jacob ... uzzle.html

That fact that your citations consist of very unreliable sources should tell people something. Your post consists of the following sources:

- A message board
- Youtube (even worse, a story done by Fox News)
- The Examiner, authored by an individual that possesses a strong anti-propecia and anti-pharmaceutical bias
- A Blog
- A small study done on rats

There is still a substantial lack of any hard evidence that supports the idea of persistent symptoms resulting from Finatseride. Any new user should take this into consideration when deciding whether or not to use the medication.

 

[glen_jai]

I've been on finasteride for 16 months. Had a few slight sexual issues when I first started (I’m not convinced that these weren't psychosomatic, a result of reading too much anti-propecia propaganda) but for the remaining 15 months I’ve been on it without a single issue. Sex drive is as strong as ever, and I haven't had any other problems other than very occasional testicular ache.

As for therapeutic effect, I have gone up at least a full Norwood level (from NW3V to strong NW2). I reached this at about 6 months, and have held strong from then on. My hair line is still not perfect, but it is very thick. My crown is almost completely filled in, and it’s difficult to tell that I was ever thinning.

Overall, I’ve had a great experience on Finasteride. It is not a perfect treatment, but it’s by far the best one we currently have available. Chances are you will have no issues on the drug and very positive results. Be sure to find a doctor that knows the medication, speak with him/her about the risks and benefits. There is some good information online as well, but there is also a lot of bad information. Make sure you remain objective when considering information available online.

Thank you for your response Wuffer. It is good to hear from those that have been using finasteride for some time.
I have been in such dilemma over whether to take it for a very long time, as the number of articles and posts of people's side effects has really put me off.

Which brand of finasteride are you taking?

Thanks,
Glen

 

[Wuffer]

Sure, glad to help. I use a generic brand of 5mg Finasteride made by a company called Pharmascience based out of Quebec, Canada. It costs me less than $50 for a year supply.

You are taking a prescription medication and that alone carries some risk. If you are unwilling to accept this risk, it's best not to take it. That being said, Finasteride is generally seen as being very well tolerated. There is debate about persistent symptoms, but as I said, there is currently little to no evidence that supports the fact this could happen.

If you do decide to start, my recommendation for you is to remove yourself from these forums and basically forget that you are taking the medication. Take some good before pictures, then take more after about 6 months to chart your progress. Don't obsess or worry about side effects; if they happen, they happen and you discontinue and move on. Chances are you won't have any.

Best of luck.

 

[amalgamated]

[quote="amalgamated"

There is still a substantial lack of any hard evidence that supports the idea of persistent symptoms resulting from Finatseride. Any new user should take this into consideration when deciding whether or not to use the medication.

look brain surgeon, you get one endocrine system. if you want to risk permanent impotence because you lack self confidence over hair loss, go for it pal. the problem you guys think you have over thinning hair loss will seem laughable when your dick is limp for the next 50 years.

 

[amalgamated]

Finasteride treatment of hypersexuality associated with vascular dementia and underlying benign prostate hyperplasia


Background: It is known that there is a considerable change in sexual activity following stroke and dementia. Hypersexuality has no proven treatment, although reports have described reductions in hypersexual behavior using anti-psychotics or serotonergics. However, patients, whose sexual behavior did not respond to these medications, were intermittently observed in clinical practice. The purpose of this study is to describe the clinical effects of finasteride not only in BPH, but also in hypersexualism secondary to vascular dementia. Methods: Participants included 10 men(mean age: 76.40±3.64, range:73-82) with their problematic sexually related behaviors who were diagnosed as vascular dementia according to NINDS-AIREN criteria, who had already had lower urinary tract symptoms secondary to benign prostatic hyperplasia. Their sexual behaviors included cuddling, touching of the genitals, sexual remarks propositioning, grabbing and groping, use of obscene language and masturbating without shame. In all instances concern emanated from members of the nursing staff. The diagnosis of BPH was established standard urologic evaluation with the International Prostate Symptom Score (IPSS), quality of life (QoL) index, peak urinary flow rate (Qmax), ultrasound measurement of prostate volume, residual urine volume, assay of prostate specific antigen(PSA), and digital rectal examination. ultrasound measurement of prostate volume, assay of prostate specific antigen(PSA). From the studies, all of them were started on finasteride 5 mg once daily without any other medication which could influence on their abnormal behaviors except antidementia medications. Results: A few months after taking finasteride, all of the enrolled patients showed improvement of voiding symptoms and half of them showed amelioration of hypersexuality and no unwanted side effects. Conclusions: This study demonstrates that finasteride as an anti-androgenic effect decreased libido and hypersexual behavior without serious side effects in patients with vascular dementia and underlying BPH. Further studies that obviously define the response and long-term side effects of finasteride are needed to confirm our observations.

http://www.alzheimersanddementia.com/ar ... 52-5260(08)02554-5/fulltext

 

[amalgamated]

Effects of the 5 alpha-reductase inhibitor finasteride on serum levels of gonadal, adrenal, and hypophyseal hormones and its clinical significance: a prospective clinical study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... ds=9589555

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ABSTRACT:

In the present study, we investigated the effects of a steroid 5 alpha-reductase inhibitor, finasteride, when given orally (5 mg/day), on the serum levels of gonadal, hypophyseal, and adrenal hormones and the clinical significance of these effects.

Forty-eight patients with a mean age of 63 (range 49-81) were included in the study. All patients had symptoms of benign prostatic hyperplasia.

Serum levels of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH), prolactin, aldosterone, cortisol, and dehydroepiandrosterone were determined before the study.

The degree of symptoms in each patient and serum prostate specific antigen levels were determined together with uroflowmetric studies. Sexual status of the patients was also assessed with a self-administered questionnaire.

All patients received finasteride, 5 mg/day, for 6 weeks. All of the above mentioned studies were repeated at month 3 and month 6.

All of the patients had baseline hormonal values within the normal range.

At month 3, the dihydrotestosterone level decreased by 60%, while the testosterone level increased by 15%. FSH and LH levels decreased by 24% and 16%, respectively.

The changes in the serum levels of these hormones were further evident at month 6. No significant changes were noted in the serum levels of prolactin, aldosterone, cortisol, and dehydroepiandrosterone.

Thirty-six patients (75%) were judged to be potent before the treatment. Finasteride caused erectile dysfunction in 8 patients (22%) by month 3 and in 12 (33%) by month 6.

A substantial improvement was noted in symptoms of benign prostatic hyperplasia in all patients.

The serum prostate specific antigen level decreased by 42% and 50% at month 3 and at month 6, respectively.

Continued administration of finasteride, 5 mg/day alters the serum levels of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, FSH, and LH significantly.

Finasteride also causes sexual dysfunction in a substantial number of patients and should be offered with caution to patients who have an active sexual life.

 

[amalgamated]

CLINICAL PERSPECTIVE: Proscar and Propecia—A Therapeutic Perspective
PDF: http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/89/7/3096.pdf

The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism 89(7):3096–3098
Printed in U.S.A. Copyright © 2004 by The Endocrine Society

-------------

Short article by WILLIAM ROSNER, Department of Medicine, St. Luke’s Roosevelt Hospital Center, New York / Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons, New York

*** He notes the possible increases in high-grade prostate cancer as a result of Finasteride, that the medical community has not come to conclusions about whether Finasteride should be used to prevent prostate cancer, and finally, shares his opinion on why he is against Finasteride use in young men for cosmetic (hairloss) purposes.

--------------------

Selected bits:

... "Two years after (1994) the approval of Proscar for BPH, a trial began to determine whether it could decrease the incidence of prostate cancer; the subjects were men 55 yr of age and older.

The major result of the trial, a decrease in the incidence of low-grade prostate cancers accompanied by an absolute and relative increase in high-grade prostate cancers (Table 1), was surprising and led to discontinuation of the trial before its planned ending.

... "Although the issue of using Proscar to treat BPH has been addressed, there remains the question of how to advise patients who take Propecia (finasteride, 1 mg) for the treatment of baldness."

... "Although the steroidal surrogates correctly predicted the efficacy of Proscar in BPH, its action on the prevention of prostate cancer appears mixed. This issue is now unsettled, but raises concern for those in whom finasteride is used for a cosmetic rather than a moderately severe medical problem (BPH)."

... "Second, and more problematic, is the fact that there has been no open discussion of the potential danger in the long-term use of Propecia."

... "We need to think seriously about the large group of men, younger by far than those with prostate disease, who use finasteride for hair loss and not for symptoms arising from BPH. Bear in mind that the treatment of alopecia with finasteride is a lifelong commitment and that “lifelong’â€￾ means a long time for young men.

Will these patients be protected from prostate cancer, or are they at greater risk of serious disease? Whatever the answer, because of the prospect of many years of use, there should be a sense of urgency in sorting out this dilemma.'

... "In the interim, physicians and their patients should at least be aware of the potential risks and together should evaluate the use of Propecia for baldness. For mypart, I will stay with the tried and true, “first do no harm.â€￾"

 

[amalgamated]

Effect of androgen deprivation on penile ultrastructure

[shows what happens to penile tissues when they are deprived of androgens via Finasteride or Castration --- both produce very similar results.]

FULL TEXT:
http://www.asiaandro.com/archive/1008-682X/5/33.htm

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ABSTRACT:

Aim:
To investigate the ultrastructural changes of penile corpus cavernosum and tunica albuginea in rats treated with castration or finasteride.


Methods:
Eighteen male Sprague-Dawley rats of nine weeks old were randomly divided into three groups with 6 rats each.

Group A served as the control, Group B was castrated and Group C, treated with finasteride.

Four weeks later, rats were anesthetized and blood samples obtained for the determination of serum testosterone (T) and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) levels; penile tissues were taken for scanning electron microscopy.


Results:
The T, free T and DHT levels in Group B and the DHT level in Group C were significantly lower than those in Group A (P<0.05).

The tunica albuginea was significantly thinner in Group B than that in Group A (P<0.05), but there was no significant difference between Group C and Group A (P>0.05).

Elastic fibers in the tunica albuginea of Group A were very rich and arranged regularly and undulatedly, but in Group B, most of the elastic fibers were replaced by collagenous fibers.

In Group C, the tunica albuginea was mainly composed of thick and irregular-arranged collagenous fibers.

In Group A, there were abundant smooth muscle fibers in the trabeculae of corpus cavernosum, but they were much less in Group C and scarce or even disappeared in Group B.

In Groups B and C, the diminished/disappeared smooth muscle fibers were replaced by irregularly arranged collagenous fibers.

Conclusion:
In rats, androgen is essential for maintaining the normal structure of penile tunica albuginea and corpus carvenosum.

 

[IrishFella]

Is spamming the forums allowed?

 

[amalgamated]

Is spamming the forums allowed?

Yes, the cognitive dissonance is anxiety provoking.

 

[UKguy84]

hi glen.

i asked the same questions 6 months ago and coincidentally my thread got spammed by scary finasteride posts. ( concerned people or what?)

they did put me off a bit, but inside i knew that i was always going try this drug regardless, because my hair means to much to me.

anyway I took the plunge with finasteride nearly 6 months ago now, for the first few months i did get the ball ache, but that was all, well except a bit of paranoia.
now I'm fine on the drug with no sides and my hair hasn't receded any further.

I always thought i would lose my dick and regret taking finasteride, amazing how things change now i would recommend it to anybody.
also i have a close friend taking it too ( 5 months), asked him several times about how he is and he 100% good.

i hope if you take the drug that it changes your opinion about it, as what's common with finasteride is an initial negative attitude towards it... and this is where your problems can start (in your head)

 

[IrishFella]

Is spamming the forums allowed?

Yes, the cognitive dissonance is anxiety provoking.

Your scare tactics won't work here, fella.

 

[Wuffer]

look brain surgeon, you get one endocrine system. if you want to risk permanent impotence because you lack self confidence over hair loss, go for it pal. the problem you guys think you have over thinning hair loss will seem laughable when your dick is limp for the next 50 years.

I've never indicated that I am a brain surgeon or even a medical expert of any sort.

I'm happy to hear you have absolutely no problems with balding. This is a quite uncommon viewpoint, as hair loss can be devastating for many men. None of the studies you spammed indicates that permanent impotence could result from Finasteride use. If I missed this conclusion, please point me to the verbiage that indicated this causal relationship.

The studies you chose are a fine example of cherry picking. There are hundreds of studies that exist focusing on Finasteride. Of course, they will not always have a positive outcome; the drug carries some risk. When you post ONLY studies that result in a negative outcome, you paint a very biased and unrealistic picture. This is, of course, your intention.

For instance, you posted a study that indicates 48 patients experienced an unusually high rate of side effects. Not only did these men take 5mg Finasteride, the mean age was 63 and they took it for a completely different condition; BPH. However, a much more statistically significant, recent and longer term study done on younger men taking 1mg for hair loss, indicates that side effects occurred at a rate of less than 1% in over 3000 men. Why do you not mention this as well? Because you want Finasteride to look bad as possible.

You also posted another Rat study; I won't even talk about that.

Another study you posted looks at the possibility of using Finasteride to treat hypersexuality. What is wrong with this? The most well-known and prevalent side effect of the drug is reduced libido, so it's a pretty logical conclusion to use it as possible treatment for hypersexuality. What point are you trying to make with this one?

I have some advice for you. Spamming forums with pages of studies doesn't do sh*t. Nobody reads them; people consider you a spammer, and scroll past them. You should learn a few skills besides ctrl-c and ctrl-v. Your personal story is important; you should tell it, recommend against taking Finasteride, list your reasons, and leave it at that. This approach is a hundred times more powerful than spamming.

 

[Chris87]

Amalgamated, if you want to state your opinion on finasteride in a respectful manner thats one thing, but when you come on here and sound frantic and nasty no one is going to listen to you.

to OP:

There are definitely people who have sides effects on finasteride, but they are the minority. There are definitely people (I believe) who have persistent side effects on finasteride..but they are they minority of the minority. There are also people who have side effects, but they go away and are fine after their body adjusts.

I personally started taking brand name propecia a little over a year ago. I took .5mg a day (half a pill). I had sexual sides, and I ended up quitting within a month.

About a month ago I decided to give it another shot, and this time I decided I would take .25mg every other day. I figured I would see if I could tolerate this dose, and then gradually increase the dosage over time. I ordered generic Finpecia off of inhousepharmacy.biz. I've been taking .25mg every other day for a little over a week now. The first day I got sexual side effects (was really hard to get it up and had no libido) but I still got morning wood (although weaker than usual). A couple days later things got a little better..I still didn't have much libido, but I could get it up pretty easy, though it was softer than usual. The next day I had a bit more libido, and could get it up (although it was a bit softer than usual again).....anyway the point is..its been getting a little bit better every day or every couple days. Now I'm at the point where I had sex with my girlfriend last night..at first I couldn't keep it up..but i settled down for a bit a little later on was able to have sex no problem with a rock hard erection..I also noticed that my desire for sex was definitely up (so my mind could have definitely played a part in the initial failure to keep it up). This morning I woke up with a rock hard morning wood (harder than any other days before while on finasteride) and I feel like my libido is only slightly lower than where it should be. So it looks like, for me, my body is adjusting to this dosage and I believe (and hope) that within a month or so I will be feeling like normal.

I hope to be able to increase the dosage over time, but even if i had to stay at .25mg every other day, its better than nothing..and I believe it'll be enough to significantly slow down, if not stop, my hair loss (my hair loss is not TERRIBLY aggressive..i've been losing hair for 3 years and I dont think people even notice yet).

I look at it this way...even if the side effects never went completely away..I would take a 10% softer erection and a little more work to get it up over going bald... I look at guys every day who are badly balding or bald who used to be good looking happy guys and I just think I don't want to end up like that. I believe it would limit me in my life. I mean, would Elvis have been the king of rock and roll if he didn't have his hair? Would George Clooney be a sex symbol and A list actor had he lost his hair at a young age? I believe hairloss limits your opportunities in life and has the potential to effect people financially.

So its your choice, but..there are a ton of guys out there taking finasteride who are fine. There are a lot of guys who have been taking finasteride close to 20 years with no problem. So, its your choice..I would say do what I did..start at .25mg every other day and see how you handle it. Get Finpecia from inhousepharmacy.biz and cut it into 4 equal pieces using a pill cutter. There is also an even more conservative route to go that I've heard about which is to follow the following schedule

Week 1 & 2: take 1mg on monday and nothing the rest of the week
Week 2 & 3: take 1mg on monday and thursday
Week 3 & 4: take 1 mg on monday wednesday and friday
Week 5 & 6: take 1 mg every other day (so mon, wed, fri, sun, tues, thurs, sat, etc)
Week 7 & 8: take 1mg every day

This is designed to slowly introduce finasteride into your body over a couple months and allow yourself to adjust. Apparently people who have experience sides effects taking finasteride every day have tried this and had success.