Topical spironolactone & Finasteride/Dutasteride

[goodhair]

Is Topical spironolactone worth applying if already taking Finasteride/Dutasteride? In other words are they doing different things? I have read conflicting things on this forum.

 

[Hecfield]

Firstly, topical spironolactone hasn't really been vigorously tested, and is believed to be involved in retention rather than regrowth so it is quite hard to state whether or not it is effective for definite. Just bare that in mind. I use it, so I'm hardly opposed to it, but I don't want to advocate it too much because I'm in early use. Too early to share experience.

But the theory, in simple form, is that finasteride inhibits conversion of free testosterone into DHT. spironolactone is an anti-antrogen, which means it prevents converted DHT from binding and causing any miniaturisation on your hair follicle. Assuming this logic, they should be very complimentary. finasteride reduces how many DHT molecules are in your scalp (and system, but thats relevant to side effects rather than hair loss), and spironolactone reduces the damage that the little scamps that still get through can do.

 

[Obsidian]

After reading up, I think that if you only have minor to moderate hairloss, topicals (a combination of Copper Peptides, minoxidil, and spironolactone) could work for you as say the big three. That said, it sounds good on paper but we still need to apply to real life.

 

[Bryan]

Assuming this logic, they should be very complimentary.

They're complimentary? I guess they sit around and tell each other, "You're such a GOOD drug!"

 

[Tyler_Durden]

spironolactone is absorbed systematically yeah? So does that mean in theory, it wouldn't have to be applied directly to the hair affected for it to work?

For example, my temples are thinning but I don't want to apply it directly to the temple area that is thin. Instead I would apply in slightly in front of that area, in an area of temple that is virtually slick. Would the spironolactone be absorbed and still have the same effect?

I think I remember reading about people applying spironolactone to their testes to absorb it or something as well, thinking it would make spironolactone's more effective. Dunno about that theory, but I just thought it adds weight to spironolactone being absorbed elsewhere to have its effect.

 

[decro435]

Firstly, topical spironolactone hasn't really been vigorously tested, and is believed to be involved in retention rather than regrowth so it is quite hard to state whether or not it is effective for definite. Just bare that in mind. I use it, so I'm hardly opposed to it, but I don't want to advocate it too much because I'm in early use. Too early to share experience.

But the theory, in simple form, is that finasteride inhibits conversion of free testosterone into DHT. spironolactone is an anti-antrogen, which means it prevents converted DHT from binding and causing any miniaturisation on your hair follicle. Assuming this logic, they should be very complimentary. finasteride reduces how many DHT molecules are in your scalp (and system, but thats relevant to side effects rather than hair loss), and spironolactone reduces the damage that the little scamps that still get through can do.

Byran posted a study before of an Italian study on the use of 5% spironolactone lotion in the treatment of Androgentic Alopecia. As I recall it claimed "maintainance", but the before and after pictures seemed to show some recession. Then again the study never stated this.

Also, it reported no side effects. After applying Dr.Lee's 5% spironolactone lotion once nightly, I had trouble breathing and increased anxiety. I've also heard reports from other users of these symptoms. I can tell you there definetly are side effects, whether or not these depend on the person involved or the frequency/amount of spironolactone used is unknown to me.

 

[baller234]

Firstly, topical spironolactone hasn't really been vigorously tested, and is believed to be involved in retention rather than regrowth

Since when is spironolactone believed to be involved retention of scalp hair growth? This is news to me. I know it retards body hair growth; is that what you're referring to?

 

[Hecfield]

Byran posted a study before of an Italian study on the use of 5% spironolactone lotion in the treatment of Androgentic Alopecia. As I recall it claimed "maintainance", but the before and after pictures seemed to show some recession. Then again the study never stated this.

Also, it reported no side effects. After applying Dr.Lee's 5% spironolactone lotion once nightly, I had trouble breathing and increased anxiety. I've also heard reports from other users of these symptoms. I can tell you there definetly are side effects, whether or not these depend on the person involved or the frequency/amount of spironolactone used is unknown to me.

I was quite clear that I wasn't advocating it, and I didn't claim it had no side effects. I've noticed that you've had some side effects, and whilst some people have experienced side effects in another thread, the prevalence of it seems low. This is the problem with using drugs that aren't approved or studied though - there's no recommended dosage. Different dosages in different individuals cause different results, in the exact same way that different DHT levels with different follicular sensitivity causes different levels of hair loss.

And baller, its marketed to hair loss sufferers on the premise of being an anti-androgen which can topically fight hair loss. How effectively it does that is questionable. The hormonal response to body hair and scalp hair are inverse in some ways.

 

[Bryan]

Also, it reported no side effects. After applying Dr.Lee's 5% spironolactone lotion once nightly, I had trouble breathing and increased anxiety. I've also heard reports from other users of these symptoms. I can tell you there definetly are side effects, whether or not these depend on the person involved or the frequency/amount of spironolactone used is unknown to me.

Side effects from topical spironolactone seem very rare to me. Lots of people have used it with no problem at all. In fact, one of the medical studies with human volunteers had it applied to literally HALF of their entire body surface area, and they had no systemic effects from it.

 

[Bryan]

Since when is spironolactone believed to be involved retention of scalp hair growth? This is news to me.

Is that a joke?

 

[OverMachoGrande]

Assuming this logic, they should be very complimentary.

They're complimentary? I guess they sit around and tell each other, "You're such a GOOD drug!"

LOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Fundi]

I'm wondering if those who had sides from topical spironolactone were actually reacting to the spironolactone itself or one of the other ingredients in it to make the cream.

My reasoning for this is that firstly, as Bryan said studies covering volunteers showed no sides, and sides generally seem EXTREMELY rare (I've read of a bout 3-4 people have the breathing thing).

-The side affect of breathing problems seems quite random also given the mechanism for how spironolactone works, and people who take it orally for things such as a sex change/acne/hairloss etc. to my knowledge haven't reported problems with their breathing.

 

[kalbo]

Add me to the list of people experiencing sides from spironolactone.

A short while into using it I was getting strong chest pains. I figured that it couldn't possibly be the spironolactone since they claim there's no sides. So I go see a doctor and she says it's most likely a muscle spasm, however, I didn't tell her I was on spironolactone (had a feeling she would just blame it on that as an easy resolution). I had been working out like crazy that week so I assumed she was right. I then took an extended break from working out and everything was back to normal after a week or so.

But after reading posts of people having similar sides, I'm almost convinced it was actually due to the spironolactone. After all, I've been working out for over a decade and I've never experienced a pain such as that. And I've had muscle spasms before and this didn't quite feel like one. There was no "tightness" in my chest, it just hurt.

If it is indeed a side effect from spironolactone, then I'm glad that it was only temporary. However, I feel that the makers of topical spironolactone should seriously look into these claims and stop boasting about its safety.

 

[decro435]

Exactly!

These side effects are quite worrying. They not only gave me chest pains but also trouble breathing which makes me think it was having an effect on my lungs. That is scary, who knows what this could be doing?

 

[Jm0311]

Bump

 

[Obsidian]

I've still seen only half a dozen people maybe a little more at most saying they get sides from topical spironolactone and even then they don't know for sure if it's from it or not.

 

[decro435]

I've still seen only half a dozen people maybe a little more at most saying they get sides from topical spironolactone and even then they don't know for sure if it's from it or not.

How many people have you actually seen using it?

I honestly can't say that I've seen more than half a dozen using it. The side effects of chest pains/increased anxiety and trouble breathing are definetly from spironolactone. I was only on spironolactone at the time and they happened immediately.
With out extensive research, spironolactone could be causing damage to our lungs etc..
Even those who don't feel the side effects might be having minor damage done on a daily basis.

 

[hairrific]

Good grief, the lack of detailed usable information abounds here always when spironolactone is the topic.

Trouble breathing and chest pains....sounds like a classic case of typical symptoms of an allergic reaction (could be dangerous yes of coarse, but that's not a dangerous drop in testosterone, LOL.

My failure to find answers here has sent me in frustration to look at the books offered on line from my local library. Found a few I am going to have sent to my house. From there I don't know where my search shall lead me.

If it was absorbed topically would it not then hinder hair growth when applied on to arm hair, and would that not be a good test to see if it is working, because when applied to scalp hair then the opposite should happen, a hindering of ones hair loss? (?) :dunno:

 

[Hecfield]

Yeah I can't see why it would cause respiratory symptoms. Women use it orally as a normal treatment for hair loss just like we would take finasteride and there's no listing as that as a side effect. I can't think of any reason for that to be different in men. It is a reasonably well studied drug, just not for hair loss.

Was it S5 that you were using? I don't think I've read of any sides in anything other than cream. Could be one of the active/inactive ingredients in S5 (I think it has retin-A and caffeine in it as well). It could also be an allergy to one of the fragrances. Its entirely understandable for you to have reservations, but I think you might have different results if you used liquid solution. Shame about the smell though.

 

[Hecfield]

If it was absorbed topically would it not then hinder hair growth when applied on to arm hair, and would that not be a good test to see if it is working, because when applied to scalp hair then the opposite should happen, a hindering of ones hair loss? (?) :dunno:

Sorry to double post, but I think (I do know but I'm cram studying for an exam so my minds a mess) that body hair has an inverse reaction to anti-androgens to scalp hair. DHT promotes body hair growth during puberty and beyond, and obviously inhibits scalp hair growth as pretty much anyone on this forum knows. So yeah, that would be a decent control by those reasonings. It could also just cause hair fall altogether though if you were only using that as a method to see if it worked, but with spironolactone, as a known anti-androgen, that would be a decent test.