Update: Follica's Presentation At The 2017 Aad Meeting

[nameless]

So what have they been doing for the last 12 years? Other than citing Indian minoxidil wounding studies...

Regrowing hair is a complex and difficult biological task, so it's going to take lots of time to cure it.

And it looks like some of the stuff they're doing goes beyond merely trying to update investors.

 

[DrizzyD]

It's kinda f*****g bullshit that they have packaging and marketing aspects all ready to go but literally can't give even a possible date for when this will be out. I understand the need for tight lips, but really why can you not even give an estimate or anything.

 

[DoctorHouse]

I like what Follica is doing more than what Replicel, Samumed, or Histogen are doing. Replicel needs to add some of the recently discovered inductivity-preserving techniques to their protocol. And I did learn some things from Follica's recent interview and article. I feel more confidence in Follica now.

Nameless, the CEO did mention the new hairs created will be terminal and match the native hair in thickness. I thought that was good because I have fine native hair and I don't need any new hair to be thinner than that.

I am glad you learned things from the interview as I did. I think most people were wondering if we could avoid having to go to a dermatologist for the procedure and the answer is no. And it may take a few visits to the dermatologist to get results. Also I was worried you have to shave your head to do this and I am glad you don't. And the study so far is only for male androgenic alopecia. And let me re-emphasize there should be no disfiguring scarring so the wound would probably be just enough to not scar permanently. They do have data already but he would not show me it. He said it will be publicly released soon on the website.

 

[Blackber]

It's kinda f*****g bullshit that they have packaging and marketing aspects all ready to go but literally can't give even a possible date for when this will be out. I understand the need for tight lips, but really why can you not even give an estimate or anything.

If they did that and missed the date, you and everyone on this forum would kill them and hold it against them i.e. Replicel/Histogen.

People were killing Fidia for missing a "date" when they never even released one.

If I was in the biotech field I'd be doing what they're doing - I find it more professional.

 

[DoctorHouse]

I didn't understand him to say that, and I find it almost impossible to believe. Any ablative laser is going to damage anything you point it at, especially hair, since that's one of the uses for it - hair removal. I simply cannot imagine how they could produce a 4mm scalp ablation, yet leave the existing hair unharmed. You may not have to shave your head, but it seems impossible to me that any existing hair you have won't be damaged (but grow back).

I am assuming they will be wounding areas with low density or almost no hairs to begin with. They will probably wet the hair and expose more areas of scalp to do it. I think if you are a diffuse thinner you are going to damage existing hairs but they should grow back maybe even thicker.

 

[DoctorHouse]

But even if you aren't a diffuse thinner, the Androgenetic Alopecia hair loss pattern is gradual geographically unless you are a complete Norwood 5-7; there will be large areas where you still have hair, but it's very thin (like temples or crowns of a Norwood 2-3). My completely uninformed guess is that they don't want to make the procedure sound too invasive before they've released it.

According to the CEO, he said there will be no scarring. Anyway you can continue to speculate all you want. We still have to play the "waiting game" like every other treatment. But we know definitely wounding creates new hairs. So until then, derma roll your scalp a few times a week and add minoxidil or stemoxydine and see if you can get some new growth in areas with no hair. Ask Alex(Somebody) what he feels about derma rolling and he will tell you it is what jump started his results after years of status quo.
I was derma rolling for a while but I was always worried I was damaging existing hairs and I remember my scalp would burn if I put on topicals. But I think I might try it again.

 

[ForeverBald]

Are they planning on launching the product oversea ? @DoctorHouse

 

[DoctorHouse]

Are they planning on launching the product oversea ? @DoctorHouse

Yes, the goal will eventually be world wide. Right now just the United States.

 

[ForeverBald]

Thank you @DoctorHouse
Hope that I still have hair till then

 

[DrizzyD]

If they did that and missed the date, you and everyone on this forum would kill them and hold it against them i.e. Replicel/Histogen.

People were killing Fidia for missing a "date" when they never even released one.

If I was in the biotech field I'd be doing what they're doing - I find it more professional.

The reason so many people get mad at that is those companies give exact dates. The CEO couldn't even throw out a year or anything? It would also kill speculation and rumors if he gave some type of timeline. It doesn't help that they're attempting to re direct their products timeline based off of FDA regulation.

 

[hairblues]

The reason so many people get mad at that is those companies give exact dates. The CEO couldn't even throw out a year or anything? It would also kill speculation and rumors if he gave some type of timeline. It doesn't help that they're attempting to re direct their products timeline based off of FDA regulation.

It could be possible that they follow this forum and SAW the Fidia thread and figured--sh*t lets not give those guys(and girls) any date because they will contact us non stop.

 

[Gone]

Regading scarring, it sounds like they said it's not quite resolved, but they wouldn't release the product if it wasn't. I don't consider this a confirmation. They would have just said "yes" or "no" if the answer was that simple.

 

[Blackber]

The reason so many people get mad at that is those companies give exact dates. The CEO couldn't even throw out a year or anything? It would also kill speculation and rumors if he gave some type of timeline. It doesn't help that they're attempting to re direct their products timeline based off of FDA regulation.

Sorry but I respectfully disagree.

-Histogen said 2018 for a potential release in Mexico. To our knowledge they haven't even started Phase 3 so they're going to miss 2018 in all likelyhood.

-Follica's company release last year said they were going to start a new trial in 2016 and the earliest possible release would be 2018. That trial has been pushed back to start in 2017 (keep in mind they didn't announce that to the public, it was in an investor outlook), so 2018 doesn't look like a possibility anymore.

Replicel has had delays over and over.

None of these companies give exact dates and they still miss them. The only difference is Follica doesn't have to big themselves up for investors because of Puretech funding them. The only information we have regarding Follica is from us digging deep whereas the other companies make announcements.

Tsuji, Follica, and Samumed all seem to follow the same tight-lipped business model and none of them need outside investors.

Them giving a date would promote rumors and speculation if they missed that date even if it wasn't their fault (FDA). And lastly, of course they should direct their product timeline around FDA approval. Without it they can't offer their treatment.

 

[nameless]

Nameless, the CEO did mention the new hairs created will be terminal and match the native hair in thickness. I thought that was good because I have fine native hair and I don't need any new hair to be thinner than that.

I am glad you learned things from the interview as I did. I think most people were wondering if we could avoid having to go to a dermatologist for the procedure and the answer is no. And it may take a few visits to the dermatologist to get results. Also I was worried you have to shave your head to do this and I am glad you don't. And the study so far is only for male androgenic alopecia. And let me re-emphasize there should be no disfiguring scarring so the wound would probably be just enough to not scar permanently. They do have data already but he would not show me it. He said it will be publicly released soon on the website.

I learnt the same things you learnt and some other things too. For example, many of us were wondering if Follica is even serious about trying to bring a treatment to market. Now I definitely believe that they're very serious about trying to bring a treatment to market. I think they used to be totally in research mode but I think that now they're starting to also think about a marketing plan. I think they're starting to plan for marketing because they believe they can cross the remaining hurdles that need to be crossed. I also think that minoxidil is probably not involved. I think their treatment will be more complex than I originally thought and I think that patients will need a doctor to do parts of the treatment. Having a doctor do parts of the treatment is not just a gimmick for running up the bill. I think that they're planning for the likelihood that some patients will need more doctor involvement than other patients.

 

[tjnpdx]

I learnt the same things you learnt and some more things. For example, many of us were wondering if Follica is even serious about trying to bring a treatment to market. Now I definitely believe that they're very serious about trying to bring a treatment to market. I think that they used to be totally in research mode but I think that now they're starting to also think about a marketing plan. I think they're starting to plan for marketing because they believe they can cross the remaining hurdles that need to be crossed. I also think that minoxidil is probably not involved. I think their treatment will be more complex than I originally thought and I think that patients will need a doctor to do parts of the treatment. Having a doctor do parts of the treatment is not just a gimmick for running up the bill. I think that they're planning for the likelihood of some patients needing more than one doctor intervention.

I'm personally all for building a platform if a company is confident that they'll be able to pull through to market; but I'm not personally for showing these things off and waving them in everyones' faces while keeping mum and potentially being 2 years from actually bringing it to market, as DoctorHouse mentioned previously. This sort of thing, to a bunch of balding guys who have been hopeless searching for something that'll actually work anywhere from 1-15 years, seems semi-sadist, honestly. It's one thing to present your company like this, but it's another thing to not give one single bit of information to anyone that's interested.

TL;DR: I'm a whiny b**ch and I want it now.

 

[nameless]

I'm personally all for building a platform if a company is confident that they'll be able to pull through to market; but I'm not personally for showing these things off and waving them in everyones' faces while keeping mum and potentially being 2 years from actually bringing it to market, as DoctorHouse mentioned previously. This sort of thing, to a bunch of balding guys who have been hopeless searching for something that'll actually work anywhere from 1-15 years, seems semi-sadist, honestly. It's one thing to present your company like this, but it's another thing to not give one single bit of information to anyone that's interested.

TL;DR: I'm a whiny b**ch and I want it now.

I highlighted the part of your post that I think is where you're anger is coming from. IMO we did just get some information from Follica. And they also said hard data is soon to follow. I'm looking forward to seeing their forthcoming data when they release it. I think we're going to be pleasantly surprised. I don't think it's going to be a cure but I think it's going to be better than what we have today.

 

[lemoncloak]

the CEO did mention the new hairs created will be terminal and match the native hair in thickness

Did he say exactly that or sth like it can create terminal hairs? Can u remember?

 

[Follisket]

Of course you guys have all this newfound faith in Follica. After all, Replicel is starting to crack.

Just two years ago Histogen and Replicel were considered the holy grail. Now we're jumping ship to find a new hope to cling to and it's completely without any solid argumentation. Follica used to be a write-off but hey, you had Replicel back then, didn't you?

Thing is, you're focusing on the wrong problem, pinning your hopes on any and every goddamn treatment in development but all that is is getting by on a day-to-day basis on delusions.

Practically all of these treatments are destined to fail from the get-go. Every single treatment between now and an eventual solution has to fail because that's just the nature of progress; it is necessary for an eventual breakthrough to be made.

The real problem is things aren't failing nearly fast enough due to the lack of research and funding. For f***'s sake, even the world's leading researchers admit hardly any research is done in the field of hair loss. We don't even have a prognosis for baldness! Do you get that? Yet you expect a cure for a disorder that has plagued mankind for *thousands of years* to be produced within the narrow timeframe of your youth by only a handful of people?

Get people to f*****g recognize the need for action then we can start hoping. Right now you guys are as good as bald with no one to blame for it but your own lack of strength and courage.

 

[DoctorHouse]

Did he say exactly that or sth like it can create terminal hairs? Can u remember?

I asked him that specifically and he said the modality will create a terminal hair like your own. I wanted to make sure it was not some peach fuzz like minoxidil.

I don't understand your question lemon? Can you not understand when I said he mentioned it will create NEW hairs that will be terminal hairs? I think at this point I have answered all I can. Some of you guys do understand these guys are like Apple that they won't divulge anything to protect their patents. I think you have to realize I did the best I could under the circumstance and you have no choice but wait until they post something. And like Nameless and the admin said, this company is very legitimate and eventually will deliver.

And just to repeat, the meeting was for Follica to find out how many dermatologist have patients coming in their office for the sole reason to treat hair loss. It was audience participation with clickers. The percentage is very small actually. We all represent that small percentage.

I think because we now have people treating their hair loss without ever seeing a doctor, those numbers don't really represent the true amount of people interested in treating hair loss. Think about it, how many people besides this forum do you know actually treat hair loss? This was very important data to collect because this company is going to have to rely on a dermatologist to deliver it.

Can you image creating a product that sounds great but no one really has a need for it? I am sure they also asked how many dermatologist would implement this in their practice. Remember this company is going to have to rely on your local dermatologist to deliver this. If some dermatologists don't feel comfortable doing this, it will be harder for this product to survive or be delivered in the market. So the meeting's purpose was another means of data collecting. If I were a dermatologist, I would definitely implement this in my practice. And I think most will because more people are visiting the dermatologist for aesthetic reasons than for just acne, suspicious moles or skin cancer.

 

[lemoncloak]

I asked him that specifically and he said the modality will create a terminal hair like your own. I wanted to make sure it was not some peach fuzz like minoxidil.

I don't understand your question lemon? Can you not understand when I said he mentioned it will create NEW hairs that will be terminal hairs? I think at this point I have answered all I can. Some of you guys do understand these guys are like Apple that they won't divulge anything to protect their patents. I think you have to realize I did the best I could under the circumstance and you have no choice but wait until they post something. And like Nameless and the admin said, this company is very legitimate and eventually will deliver.

And just to repeat, the meeting was for Follica to find out how many dermatologist have patients coming in their office for the sole reason to treat hair loss. It was audience participation with clickers. The percentage is very small actually. We all represent that small percentage.

I think because we now have people treating their hair loss without ever seeing a doctor, those numbers don't really represent the true amount of people interested in treating hair loss. Think about it, how many people besides this forum do you know actually treat hair loss? This was very important data to collect because this company is going to have to rely on a dermatologist to deliver it.

Can you image creating a product that sounds great but no one really has a need for it? I am sure they also asked how many dermatologist would implement this in their practice. Remember this company is going to have to rely on your local dermatologist to deliver this. If some dermatologists don't feel comfortable doing this, it will be harder for this product to survive or be delivered in the market. So the meeting's purpose was another means of data collecting. If I were a dermatologist, I would definitely implement this in my practice. And I think most will because more people are visiting the dermatologist for aesthetic reasons than for just acne, suspicious moles or skin cancer.

I'm just wondering whether follica can create a decent number of terminal hairs. I understand like admin said u tried to squeeze water from a rock. You're right on all the rest. Oh well, if follica amounts to sth significant then great but personally I'd rather invest hope in cell therapies.