Update: Follica's Presentation At The 2017 Aad Meeting

[pegasus2]

The patent doesn't say what they will use. Regardless, it's basically the same thing.

The removal of dermis tissue at the target area may be accomplished by any suitable technique, including a fractional ablative laser, a punch biopsy needle, a microneedle, a micro-coring needle, a blade, a drilling bit, a fluid (e.g., water or gas) jet, or another suitable modality.

http://patents.justia.com/patent/20130204238

 

[baldingAF]

I think it's safe to say that follica won't just be dermastamp/laser with minix. A skim of a few of their patents says tentative use of things from anti inflammation, antioxidants, wnt regulators, bmp inhibitors, tyrosine inhibitors, autoimmune drugs and so on. It makes no sense for them to cover all that much just for patent rights then turn around and blast rogaine in holes on your head. Starting to see some real precision and finesse in follica's approach

 

[Swoop]

Before writing this did you at least read the comment or look at the link to the patent thy was posted?

I did. But it took me 5 seconds to conclude that that comment is full of grandiose unrealistic dreams.

Swoop I'm pretty sure you said JAK inhibitors would never work for Androgenetic Alopecia. Hasn't been proven yet but signs are starting to point in the right direction at least. Not sure why you're so quick to shoot it down.

I still stand by that. They will indeed do next to nothing.

I agree regarding that site - it's totally biased, and suffers from a major conflict of interest since he pushes protocols with one hand while accepting advertising dollars for those services with the other.

That being said, I don't get your Follica hate. It's clear you have some sort of personal vendetta against it, and often misrepresent what they are doing (for example, you keep claiming that all they will offer is needling and minoxidil, when the patent clearly states over and over that it will be laser ablation).

I'm not hating Follica. What makes you think that?

Also I said they will be offering microneedling or dermabrasion in combination with one compound initially, and yes this will be minoxidil. We don't have confirmation of this but I'm highly sure that I'll be right. Everything points to it. Simple as that. Recent news of two days ago : http://www.investegate.co.uk/puretech-health-plc--prtc-/rns/final-results/201704060700157354B/.

Follica is progressing the development of its proprietary, in-office skin disruption therapy that induces follicular neogenesis and enhances the new follicles with an active drug compound. Follica is initiating a pilot optimisation study mid-year, with a pivotal trial expected to begin in the second half of 2017.

Now what compound would that be? Hmmm...Yes, minoxidil baby.

Now in the long term future that's another story. Yes, Follica might research novel compounds that might work even better or in combination with minoxidil. But that process will be a long long long process, because we all know how long drug trials take. We are speaking about many years here. They are going for 510K approval only now for their medical device.

Your notion of them using a laser is just simply unrealistic. A patent often describes a wide range to protect their IP. You can't just derive factual information from a patent. But have you actually looked at their patent? Dermabrasion outperformed the laser when used solo as TCP.

As shown in Table 7 below, all four of the modes of integumental perturbation produced activated hair follicles. Dermabrasion (using the Aseptico Econo-Dermabrader from Tiemann and Company) resulted in the highest number of activated follicles, and among the laser treatment modalities, treatment with fractional laser resulted in the highest number of activated follicles.

Furthermore how do you even see this from a practical, let alone financial standpoint? Have you ever educated yourself on lasers? Here is a quick link: http://www.skinacea.com/facials/lasers/types.html#.WOeW3kXyhaQ

There are only a couple of lasers approved by the FDA. These ain't exactly pocket handheld lasers and are expensive. Remember that Follica is going to produce the medical device. Do you seriously think Follica has the cash flow to start mass producing lasers like this:

?

And I don't hate on Follica. If it's microdermabrasion or microneedling in combination with minoxidil it's still better than minoxidil alone. And I see they want to reach a wide public with this treatment, because a lot of people don't seek out for treatments at the moment. This picture says all:

98% of elligible Androgenetic Alopecia patient do not receive treatment in the US.

So let them work with physicians, hair transplant doctors and clinics to reach a wider public and use that holy old minoxidil with their TCP technique to pump money into this market.

I won't hate them for doing that. The more money pumped in this market the better.

But I'll cheer if they get swooped completely out of this market by superior treatments. And that's where my hope lies. Actual companies that have the capability to launch something truly great in the near future, like Dr. Tsuji.

Follica simply isn't one of them, at least in the near future.

 

[paleocapa89]

Ok, lets assume you are right, and it is in fact dermabrasion and minoxidil. None of those two are patentable and if they somehow get a patent on the combination of both and the use case I don't see why anyone could not just slightly change their protocol and copy the whole stuff.

 

[hairblues]

Do we even know yet where they are yet with trials? Officially?

 

[iamgotham]

Everything about this company is a mystery.

They've been working on this new treatment for 10 years and there is no signs of results, release date, actual treatment, etc...

I just hope that they've developed something that really works in any way (maintenance or regrowth).

 

[baldingAF]

Reached out to a board member who got back to me but he was real tight lipped about everything. Trial dates, numbers etc

 

[iamgotham]

Just 5 more years... LOL

 

[Swoop]

Ok, lets assume you are right, and it is in fact dermabrasion and minoxidil. None of those two are patentable and if they somehow get a patent on the combination of both and the use case I don't see why anyone could not just slightly change their protocol and copy the whole stuff.

Well it is actually already covered in their patent. Dermabrasion is a form of TCP and minoxidil is included in their patents too as a additive to the TCP technique.

I have already copied the quote from the board of directors who believe that the R. Dhurat study (minoxidil + microneedling) falls under their intellectual property.

"There is also a clinical study conducted by a third party academic group which validates the approach that Follica plans on pursuing, which the Directors believe is covered by Follica’s intellectual property.

Do we even know yet where they are yet with trials? Officially?

It's in the message I have written above.

"Follica is progressing the development of its proprietary, in-office skin disruption therapy that induces follicular neogenesis and enhances the new follicles with an active drug compound. Follica is initiating a pilot optimisation study mid-year, with a pivotal trial expected to begin in the second half of 2017."

 

[iamgotham]

So luckily we will some sort of new Minoxidil-technique-thing around 2020/2021.

Should we be excited?

 

[hairblues]

So luckily we will some sort of new Minoxidil-technique-thing around 2020/2021.

Should we be excited?

I think realistically people need to see where they are in hair loss and the aggressiveness in it.

 

[baldingAF]

if you're already working with minoxidil why not go further?

@Swoop Is there any chance you could go more in depth on your assumption of their dermabrasion technique?

I'm already 6 weeks into dermaroller at 1.5mm so i figure I might as well try what we know about Follica. I can obtain Lithium Gluconate 8% and lidocaine and maybe a few of their other less dangerous topicals they mentioned in their patent to be added along with the dermabrasion.....I know some MD's that got my back.

 

[iamgotham]

I think realistically people need to see where they are in hair loss and the aggressiveness in it.

I'm really not understanding your assumption here...

 

[Abelibano]

Jesus, not this dermarolling+random chemical sh*t again... It's like SwissTemples all over again. I do not mean to be ungrateful but it would really suck if this will be the only actual alternative option than current treatments... You will have to dermaroll,be careful,perhaps even buy a specific device for it, put chemical compounds on your scalp for some mediocre results. And trust me,they will be mediocre, supposing of course they will ever release it.
It's not a proper treatment and its annoying and tiresome.

 

[br1]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[paleocapa89]

This could be Follica's marketing slogan "We're just scratching the surface" XD

 

[baldingAF]

fgf9 will have to be involved either by being signaled or possibly just applied but that doesn't sound as safe

 

[hairblues]

I'm really not understanding your assumption here...

Its not rocket science

You asked a question

I answered not making any assumptions about you. Talking generally speaking

 

[RegenWaiting]

Long time lurker...*first post*! Hi to ALL of you

A question for you @Swoop ;

Since you are (roughly) sure about the actual process of, or the procedure as a whole that Follica will be offering - would you add that to your regimen today?

If yes - how would you go about it? 1,5 mm derm? Dermabrasion?!

If not - why? The theory or mechanism of action is supposedly verified in the Indian study.

Hope you can take the time to give your honest opinion.

Cheers

 

[SamFT]

Guys don't forget about Fevipiprant though if seti works we atleast have fevi guaranteed for 2019!