(UPDATE) Unforeseen Dutasteride Sideeffects

[Mindfull]

UPDATE ON THIS ONE (March 7th 2005)

I stopped taking Avodart the day after I listed this post, because I felt suspicious that the physical symptoms could be related to Avodart. I must admit that my suspicion seems to have been confirmed since I do no longer experience any of the mentioned side effects!! Im really happy, of course - but also a little surprised that Avodart could have such an impact on my body. My skin is no longer drying out, my sleep seems to be normalizing, my knees are less sore and perhaps most noticeable I am once again able to build up muscle like I was before I started taking Avodart. Some of this may be in my mind (placebo), but as far as the objective measure of musle mass there is no doubt. The only changed parameter has been the exclusion of Avodart.

This may be a word of caution if you consider taking Avodart, although these types of sideeffects are rarely reported. Dry skin, however, seems to be quite normal when using Avodart. Whether it may cuause some kind fo premature aging of the skin is unknown, but one could speculate that is does. I should also mention that before starting on Avodart I was taking finasteride without any troubeling side effects except from a decrease in ejaculaton volume which went away the first week (the decrease, not the ejaculation ). Im taking finasteride (1mg) again every day and have just added Proxiphen to my regimen. Btw - took Avodart for 3 months and experienced a lot of shedding - which, of course, could be seen as a predicament that it would've helped fighting my hairloss in the long term.





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In short, Im a 31 year old male professionel athlete and Ive been taking Avodart for 3 months. Im not experiencing any of the most common side-effects (e.g. Libido decrease), but I have noticed 3 things since I started taking the medicine:

1) I seem less able to build up musle from general weight training

2) I have gained noticeable bodyfat without any altering in diet or training.

3) Sore joints (!)

4) I have trouble falling a sleep at night and my general sleeping pattern is disturbed.

All these things could be hormone-related, and I was wondering if Dutasteride could be thought to have any blame in this matter? Has anyone had similar experiences?

Ive been scrutinizing the web for information about the potential influence of Dutasteride on male muscle tissue and the brain. But there seem to be no clinical indications of such a relation, although it is known that 5AR type 1 (which only dutasteride inhibits) is present in the brain and the skin....

 

[mvpsoft]

After taking dutasteride for four months, I have dropped it and am now taking finasteride. I did experience some sexual side effects, but I also experienced dry skin. I don't know if that was due to the dutasteride, but it appeared to be, as it started showing up persistently at about the three month mark, which coincides with when dutasteride reaches its full strength in the system. I also experienced sleep problems, but until your post, I did not connect those with dutasteride. As the concentration slowly diminishes in my system, perhaps my sleep will return to normal.

 

[Mindfull]

I also have experienced somewhat dry skin, but personally its difficult to tell if it is caused by the drug, the change of weather or something else... you do get somewhat paranoid, but as far as the other symptoms are concerned Im sure they have some relation to Avodart.

 

[oni]

I am sorry to hear about the both of your's side effects as I have not really suffered. I think you should both give the drug till the 6 month mark to see if the side effects go. That is what most people would do on finasteride. I did have one side effect at about 2-3 months and that was rage but I kept with it and after about 2 weeks it went away. I if anything have been able to gain muscle while on dutasteride I was slim by nature before but I have started to gain bulk and I don't mean fat.

 

[Mindfull]

dutasteride has helped you GAIN muscle mass? INTERESTING! I wonder if anyone knows how dutasteride affect musclefibers in theory. I guess dutasteride leaves higher levels of testosterone circulating in the blood, but may some of this eventually be converterd to oestrogene because its above normal levels? Could anyone clarify this.....

 

[fast times]

I take a natural estrogen blocker called "M" for dutasteride usage . The more circulating test you have the more estrogen your body will produce to keep all levels equal.

 

[oni]

Mindfull, I think dutasteride works different for many people and maybe my level of T in my blood stream was on the lower end of normal and dutasteride pushed it up to the higher end of normal. I guess this maybe why I don't have any real negative side effects.

 

[googler]

Mindfull, I take it you have to do regular drug tests but would finesteride and avodart be considered a banned substance in your field as they tamper with the hormones?

 

[gonna_win]

I thought finasteride was banned for professional atheletes becase of it's ability to mask other performance enhancing drugs. That and it modifies your testosterone levels.

 

[Mindfull]

UNMENTIONED SIDEEFFECTS

hi again. Im a pro basketball player, but really dont know if its banned. I will have to look into this, havent even thought about it since I never took anything other then proteins to boost performance. Also, players are very rarely drug-tested.

Anyway, I would still REALLY LIKE TO KNOW what the supposedly extra amount of testosterone in the blood does to your body; how it can affect muscle tissue and other stuff.

Both Finasteride and Dutasteride lists a few sideeffects (which I havent felt), but theoretically I guess a whole bunch of things could be changing in the male body as dht is more or less eliminated?´The biological model for finasteride:

"Adult males with genetically inherited type 2 5α-reductase deficiency also have decreased DHT levels. These 5α-reductase deficient males have a small prostate gland throughout life and do not develop BPH. Except for the associated urogenital defects present at birth, no other clinical abnormalities related to 5α-reductase deficiency have been observed in these individuals".

No such biological model is available for dutasteride.

I suspect dht to be in our bodies for a reason (!) and I just dont think we´ve heard about all the small changes that can possible be taking place in our bodies as systemic dht is reduced so significantly

POSSIBLE DOWNSIDES
1) increased speed of aging (skin and other hormone-sensitive organs)
2) sleeping disorders (hypofyse)

 

[Slartibartfast]

Someone posted a while back that Finasteride was added to the banned list for the very reason gonna_win gave. As far as I know Dutasteride hasn't been, not yet anyway.

I've had a similar response as oni ever since I started on a daily dose of dutasteride. In those six months I have gained 4 or 5lbs of muscle without altering my exercise regime, now that's probably only a few lbs more than I expected to put on, but every little helps.

I have read that the average increase in testosterone for men taking .5mg/day is 17%. Whether this study was conducted after 6 or 12 months on the drug I can't remember, but presumably any concomitant increase in oestrogen levels had already occured by then.

Slarti

 

[gonna_win]

Re: UNMENTIONED SIDEEFFECTS

hi again. Im a pro basketball player, but really dont know if its banned. I will have to look into this, havent even thought about it since I never took anything other then proteins to boost performance. Also, players are very rarely drug-tested.

Anyway, I would still REALLY LIKE TO KNOW what the supposedly extra amount of testosterone in the blood does to your body; how it can affect muscle tissue and other stuff.

Both Finasteride and Dutasteride lists a few sideeffects (which I havent felt), but theoretically I guess a whole bunch of things could be changing in the male body as dht is more or less eliminated?´The biological model for finasteride shows no change in bone structure. Obviously no biological model is available for dutasteride.

I suspect dht to be in our bodies for a reason (!) and I just dont think we´ve heard about all the small changes that can possible be taking place in our bodies as systemic dht is reduced so significantly

POSSIBLE DOWNSIDES
1) increased speed of aging (skin and other hormone-sensitive organs)
2) sleeping disorders (hypofyse)

At the moment finasteride accelerating the aging process is an unfounded claim. Ive herd this only twice and both times on this forum. If you have a study to back this up by all means provide a way for us to access it.

 

[Mindfull]

Someone posted a while back that Finasteride was added to the banned list for the very reason gonna_win gave. As far as I know Dutasteride hasn't been, not yet anyway.

I've had a similar response as oni ever since I started on a daily dose of dutasteride. In those six months I have gained 4 or 5lbs of muscle without altering my exercise regime, now that's probably only a few lbs more than I expected to put on, but every little helps.

I have read that the average increase in testosterone for men taking .5mg/day is 17%. Whether this study was conducted after 6 or 12 months on the drug I can't remember, but presumably any concomitant increase in oestrogen levels had already occured by then.

Slarti

Would this suggest that if you havent experienced certain side effects (such as enlarged breasts) within the first 3-6 months of treatment, then you´re guaranteed not to experience them later?

Also, how long does it generally take for the side effects to wear off. I understand that its not unusual to shed continuesly for the first 1-6 months on dutasteride (my own and only explanation for my own obvious shedding in my third month on dutasteride) - so I suppose something like this would also apply for the side effects: that they can continue for 1-6 months, and then wear off (?)

 

[Mindfull]

Re: UNMENTIONED SIDEEFFECTS

hi again. Im a pro basketball player, but really dont know if its banned. I will have to look into this, havent even thought about it since I never took anything other then proteins to boost performance. Also, players are very rarely drug-tested.

Anyway, I would still REALLY LIKE TO KNOW what the supposedly extra amount of testosterone in the blood does to your body; how it can affect muscle tissue and other stuff.

Both Finasteride and Dutasteride lists a few sideeffects (which I havent felt), but theoretically I guess a whole bunch of things could be changing in the male body as dht is more or less eliminated?´The biological model for finasteride shows no change in bone structure. Obviously no biological model is available for dutasteride.

I suspect dht to be in our bodies for a reason (!) and I just dont think we´ve heard about all the small changes that can possible be taking place in our bodies as systemic dht is reduced so significantly

POSSIBLE DOWNSIDES
1) increased speed of aging (skin and other hormone-sensitive organs)
2) sleeping disorders (hypofyse)

At the moment finasteride accelerating the aging process is an unfounded claim. Ive herd this only twice and both times on this forum. If you have a study to back this up by all means provide a way for us to access it.

I CANNOT back this up scientifically. Im only suggesting the obvious while concluding that there in fact has not been any long term studies of what effect long term systemic supression of dht has on the ageing body. Common sense would suggest that any altering of testoterone levels of this magnitude will affect your body in many, perhaps subtle, ways over the years. Short term clinical studies most likely will not be able to uncover such gradual changes or accelerated degeneration. Perhaps your skin just wrinkles a litle more and faster as you become more vulnerable to the attack of free radicals, or perhaps dna is more easily oxidized and the notorious damage from bad diet, lifestyle, toxins, pollution, radiation and other stuff is accelerated if your homone balance is not intact.

Nowadays hormones are introduced to repair socalled telomeres on the dna. You may say that this has nothing to do wiht dht supression, but its known that testosterone does play a role in aiding genetic repair and telomerase and thus, in theory, any altering of testosterone levels could also potentially affect telomerase. I obviously cant know.

As we age the secretion of many hormones declines and their effectiveness (compared unit to unit) is also reduced due to the receptors down-grading. Again, thats why growth hormone has been put forward as a potential age defiant (although clinical studies show no clear benefit in this regard). If we´re left with more testoterone circulating in your bodies, some of this will be converted into oestrogen even if it does not result in any experienced side effects. I just wonder how this affects the ageing process when you also consider that hypothalamus, as we grow older, looses its precision and regulatory abillity and that the receptors which uptake individual hormones become less sensitive to them.

I searched for relevant keywords on pubmed, but dit not find any studies. Im only suggesting the common sense: Your hormones are in your body for a very good reason.

 

[Chipper]

reply

Avodart has screwed up my face after being on it for 16 months. I feel as if ive aged at least 5 or more yrs. I have a bad deep wrinkle now. I have an area where the skin is sunken in, i have a place where the skin is saggin down, and also noticed that scabs dont heal. This drug defintely adds to premature aging.

 

[Mindfull]

Re: reply

Avodart has screwed up my face after being on it for 16 months. I feel as if ive aged at least 5 or more yrs. I have a bad deep wrinkle now. I have an area where the skin is sunken in, i have a place where the skin is saggin down, and also noticed that scabs dont heal. This drug defintely adds to premature aging.

if that is the case with Avodart, so would it be with Propecia or Proscar.

 

[Chipper]

reply

I never experienced any of those side effects on propecia

 

[mvpsoft]

Re: reply

Avodart has screwed up my face after being on it for 16 months. I feel as if ive aged at least 5 or more yrs. I have a bad deep wrinkle now. I have an area where the skin is sunken in, i have a place where the skin is saggin down, and also noticed that scabs dont heal. This drug defintely adds to premature aging.

if that is the case with Avodart, so would it be with Propecia or Proscar.

Not necessarily. Finasteride inhibits one of the enzymes that catalyzes the reaction that converts testosterone to DHT, while dutasteride inhibits both enzymes. Thus dutasteride causes the much lower serum DHT level. Dutasteride uses who notice an effect on their skin complain of dryness; finasteride users who notice an effect on their skin complain of oiliness.

There are topical alternatives to systemic DHT inhibition.

 

[Mindfull]

Re: reply

Avodart has screwed up my face after being on it for 16 months. I feel as if ive aged at least 5 or more yrs. I have a bad deep wrinkle now. I have an area where the skin is sunken in, i have a place where the skin is saggin down, and also noticed that scabs dont heal. This drug defintely adds to premature aging.

if that is the case with Avodart, so would it be with Propecia or Proscar.

Not necessarily. Finasteride inhibits one of the enzymes that catalyzes the reaction that converts testosterone to DHT, while dutasteride inhibits both enzymes. Thus dutasteride causes the much lower serum DHT level. Dutasteride uses who notice an effect on their skin complain of dryness; finasteride users who notice an effect on their skin complain of oiliness.

There are topical alternatives to systemic DHT inhibition.

Good point, mvpsoft. Mechanism of Action: "Dutasteride inhibits the
conversion of testosterone to 5α-dihydrotestosterone (DHT). DHT is the
androgen primarily responsible for the initial development and subsequent
enlargement of the prostate gland. Testosterone is converted to DHT by the enzyme 5α-reductase, which exists as 2 isoforms, type 1 and type 2. The type 2 isoenzyme is primarily active in the reproductive tissues, while the type 1 isoenzyme is also responsible for testosterone conversion in the skin and liver." (http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_avodart.pdf)

Dry skin has previously been noted as a side effect from using finasteride and especially dutasteride, see:

http://www.gourmetstylewellness.com/discussions ... t=agin+finasteride

 

[Mindfull]

UPDATE ON THIS ONE (March 7th 2005)

I stopped taking Avodart the day after I listed this post, because I felt suspicious that the physical symptoms could be related to Avodart. I must admit that my suspicion seems to have been confirmed since I do no longer experience any of the mentioned side effects!! Im really happy, of course - but also a little surprised that Avodart could have such an impact on my body. My skin is no longer drying out, my sleep seems to be normalizing, my knees are less sore and perhaps most noticeable I am once again able to build up muscle like I was before I started taking Avodart. Some of this may be in my mind (placebo), but I as far as the objektive measure of musle mass there is no doubt. The only changed parameter has been the exclusion of Avodart.

I think this should be a word of caution if you consider taking Avodart. I should also mention that before starting on Avodart I was taking finasteride without any troubeling side effects except from a decrease in ejaculaton volume which went away the first week. Im taking finasteride (1mg) again every day and have just added Proxiphen to my regimen. Btw - took Avodart for 3 monts but only experienced shedding - which, of course, could be an indication that is was working in the scalp.