Very Impressive Dermarolling And Minxodil Results - From Tressless

[ToLGuy]

I belong to the 2nd category. Old min/finasteride user. I agree with you that those who start dermarolling along with finasteride/min get the best results because they sort of go "all-in" on the hairloss and sudden boost helps grow hair dramatically. I dermarolled for about 7-8 months without any results. But I was not dermarolling properly back then. Now I do scalp massages daily and light rolling with 1 mm roller. Then every weekend I roll hard with 1.5 mm roller.
No major progress to report but I think my hair is slowly getting thicker and new vellus hair is forming. I mean progress is not as significant as some best responders here but there is atleast some positive change. I'll continue following this regimen for atleast a year or two before giving up.

Thanks. Have you taken before/after pics to monitor your progress?
Also, how exactly were you rolling back then? Why do you claim you were doing it wrong?

 

[tressful11]

Thanks. Have you taken before/after pics to monitor your progress?

I take pics every month

Also, how exactly were you rolling back then? Why do you claim you were doing it wrong?

Wasn't rolling hard enough and didn't properly understand how to roll. I don't think I had even small blood spots back then

 

[Necr0sis]

Hey guys,

I was wondering if anyone knows if it’s okay to use a 1.75mm setting, 12 needles, on the D2 for the non visible hair areas (so anywhere but hairline and temples) and if so, should I use medium or fast speed.

I have longer hair so sometimes it’s hard for me to hit my scalp good. I had a similar question earlier and someone mentioned I need to part my hair better. However, the thread conversation moves fast so I just wanted to check in again to see if this is okay.

@LowHairLine any input my man?

 

[kiwipilu]

My father had full head of hair at 65 and now at 73 he is norwood 3 diffuse thinning. Baldness can hit you at any age ,there is no guaranteed age you could believe.

well actually it depends on the pattern. diffuse thinning can f*** you up anytime and according to studies there may be external factors that enter in this type of pattern and trigger inflammation ... it's obviously the worst case scenario when you have an AAG because you can see what pattern you wil have in a very short period of time. On the other side(the receiding pattern) if you start receiding late, chances are you won't end up with the highest norwood. that's statistical and physiological.

 

[Dat5Years]

Man, I'm super worried I've fucked up by giving myself shock loss on my temples, they were WAYYYY better off before this, I'm gonna stop I think and pray this hair comes back or I'm done with life. This sucks

 

[Rudi]

Man, I'm super worried I've fucked up by giving myself shock loss on my temples, they were WAYYYY better off before this, I'm gonna stop I think and pray this hair comes back or I'm done with life. This sucks

Oh no...

What depth..how often?

Wish you a quick recovery!!

 

[Seuxin]

Man, I'm super worried I've fucked up by giving myself shock loss on my temples, they were WAYYYY better off before this, I'm gonna stop I think and pray this hair comes back or I'm done with life. This sucks

Probably not enough time to recover, too much needling. Don't panic, it will regrowth

 

[Dat5Years]

Probably not enough time to recover, too much needling. Don't panic, it will regrowth

Thanks dude, like once a week, but i went pretty hard, lots of blood. I wish I hadn't bothered now, I'm praying this comes back or I've fucked up really bad. I'm 90% sure the needling is the cause as I didn't really bother with my left temple as it's basically a zero, so focused a lot on the right and thats the one that seems way worse

 

[Rudi]

Thanks dude, like once a week, but i went pretty hard, lots of blood. I wish I hadn't bothered now, I'm praying this comes back or I've fucked up really bad. I'm 90% sure the needling is the cause as I didn't really bother with my left temple as it's basically a zero, so focused a lot on the right and thats the one that seems way worse

Seems like evidence that its good to start with a moderate needling regimen..and increase intensity slowly to find peak response..

 

[sportsguy97]

Here's my 3 month update.

39, been thinning since 20.

Starting needling with Dr.Pen ULTIMA A7 /12 needle at 1.5mm on 1/1/19 (weekly) Went to 1.75mm after maybe a month. Added Kirkland Min foam to crown and temples (1x a day) about a week later after starting. I apply min as soon as im done needling.

Sandalore 1% in ppg/etoh everyday on my right temple only w/min. really just as a test, Started needling this temple at 1mm after applying the min/san maybe 2-3 times a week. More on this later.

Nizoral 2% and Dermarest 3% salicylic acid shampoo 1x a week. Been on this for over a year. Really helps with inflammation.

Supplements/Diet-1 yr Fish oil 800/600 mgs epa/dha, Magnesium glycinate 1gm, Niacinamide 1gm, Jarrow B-right, DLPA, Zinc Methionate, D3, Ashwagandha (Sensoril 32%)-Cortisol inhibitor, L-theanine. Low Carb,protein, no Drinking. but i smoke.. alot. also started eating a can of sardines x3-4s and beef liver x1 a week.

I noticed a reduction in inflammation/ oil production almost right away. I never really shed too much but this seemed to be less as well.

At the one month mark or so i did notice a shed of small thin hairs(1in) globally. But not much in the way of terminal loss.

I never really did anything in the the way of massage. But i did read some on the galea, my scalp always did feel pretty tight/sore. I have global muscle tension on the right side of my body. head to toe. Oddly enough my hair lose is alot less on this side of my head where it feels really tight/sore. i didnt want to start rubbing the top of my head so i starting massaging the muscle above my right ear. It was really tight sore like a knot. Went pretty hard on it for a day or two. the next couple days I had the worst inflammation on the that side of my crown I've ever had. So draw from that what you will. I'm sure the two are connected. I did start wiggling my scalp back and forth, just to get a little movement. It seems to have helped relax the muscles, I do now lightly massage the sides of my head.

My scalp in the past month is way looser.. even less inflamation. I can push loose skin into ridges. The more i read, the more im convinced the galea has a major part in all this. Low Oxygen/Loss of blood flow.

Right temple and Sandalore. at about the 1 month mark I could feel peach fuzz growing in just on that temple. Near the hairline now the hairs are almost a 1/4in long. Still thin and white but man.. sure seems like my temple is filling in. And fast. Now.. I have no idea whether this is from the sandalore.. the added ppg over the min foam or the extra needling. but I started doing the same to the other temple a couple weeks ago and I think I'm seeing the same thing now. Its so hard to get pics of those small hairs though.. I think the next 2 months are going to be very truth telling.
Link to album
Baseline 1/1/19
View attachment 116848
View attachment 116849
3 Months 4/1/19
View attachment 116850
View attachment 116851

Awesome results in just 3 months. Definite improvement. Would love to see your results after 6 months to a year.

Besides numberman and the classical success cases of the 2013 trial... Is there anyone here that has reported regrowth with the following conditions?

1) Needling without minoxidil or finasteride
2) Old minoxidil/finasteride users who started needling years after the other treatments

If so, please let me know. It seems to me that most of the reported cases success in this thread DO NOT meet the aforementioned conditions. I am also kinda worried to see the list of non responders growing (which are sadly ignored by most users or regarded as "they are doing something wrong").
Gonna post my progress (or lack of it) with pics in a month when I get to the 6 month mark, but I honestly I think I am going to get disappointed. Still getting some new hairs at my hairline (no cosmetic significance tho) but my crown seems to be not responding or even getting worse.
Anyone got success under those conditions? Some of us could use some hope, guys.

I fit the criteria. Used minoxidil for 7 year after i had gotten propecia sides. Then started needling and its doing good things.

Thanks dude, like once a week, but i went pretty hard, lots of blood. I wish I hadn't bothered now, I'm praying this comes back or I've fucked up really bad. I'm 90% sure the needling is the cause as I didn't really bother with my left temple as it's basically a zero, so focused a lot on the right and thats the one that seems way worse

I wouldn't panic, but if your needling hard i would give it more time. When is started needling hard a month ago i was doing it every week and i felt it wasn't enough recovery time. For example, when i needled normally i would get peeling 5 days after. Needling with more intensity i get flaking-8 days after. Needling every 10-14 days works better when using more intensity. At least in my opinion. Every scalp is different though. You could try to vary things a bit.

Or why not try needling hard once a month. See if that helps.

 

[overpourgoodfortune]

@Mr.Sprinkles79 - That looks like some positive progress! You can see more color in the hairs on the top of your head. There is less vibrant white scalp shining through in your 3 month photos. Slight - but change in the right direction.

Very interesting experience with your scalp/galea tightness as well. Balding seems to be a mutli-faceted problem for sure. Some people may only suffer a single primary cause - but if scalp tension is a possible influence (whether minor in some, or major in others) ... it is worth paying attention to. Based on what you are observing, it could be a big influence.

 

[LowHairLine]

EDIT:
DISCLAIMER - the following recommendations are NOT proven facts, but rather my guestimates based on the available data and my (limited) experience. Make your own informed decision.

@LowHairLineI’m concerned my redness on those areas on 1.5mm medium speed is a bit too much/ too dark
https://imgur.com/a/TKQ5c02
These photos are taken immediately after the D2 session. Maybe I’m doing too many runs over the same area?

NEEDLING INTENSITY
I personally believe harder wounding / longer healing is better bcs:
- I suspect the main reason for lack of results in the past trials was too light wounding due to infection fear / un-bearable pain with rollers (which hurt much more than D2);
- heavy wounders got better / faster results on average than light wounders;
- Follica is considering depths up to 5mm (!);
That being said, we have no study comparing various intensities or forum consensus yet as to what is the correct needling intensity.

RECOMMENDATION
- the wounding on your pics does NOT seem too much:
I wound harder, but leave enough time for healing;

- consider wounding your temple vellus on the pic below as well to try promoting it to terminal;

- after the session, flush the scalp with plenty of water to remove blood spots;

...anyone knows if it’s okay to use a 1.75mm setting, 12 needles, on the D2 for the non visible hair areas (so anywhere but hairline and temples)...

D2 DEPTH THROUGH HAIR
Where needling through hair, the depth is reduced by the hair thickness:
to achieve the same depth as in bald areas, you have to increase depth.

Hard numbers depend on too many factors such as:
- hair type (length, thickness, density),
- combing pattern, etc.

RECOMMENDATION
Aiming for redness? blood spots?
- set the depth that brings you to your goal;
- keep the hair wet to reduce overall thickness;

...should I use medium or fast speed...

D2 SPEED
Any speed will do:
it's just that lower speeds will require more time to achieve the same result (i.e. intensity / hole count):
FASTER SPEED = shorter session, but more pain;
SLOWER SPEED = longer session, but less pain;

RECOMMENDATION
- use the fastest speed where you can bear the pain;
- if you find yourself backing off, reduce speed;

...someone mentioned I need to part my hair better...

HAIR PARTING
It's not necessary part your hair for every pass and derimnate only on the part:
you can easily derimate through the hair if you make sure your passes are parallel to the hair direction.

RECOMMENDATION
- make sure your hair is wet for easier combing;
- comb parallel to the intended derminating passes (i.e. horizontal, vertical etc.)
- check out the very informative @74775446 video in the FAQ thread:

 

[Dat5Years]

Awesome results in just 3 months. Definite improvement. Would love to see your results after 6 months to a year.



I fit the criteria. Used minoxidil for 7 year after i had gotten propecia sides. Then started needling and its doing good things.



I wouldn't panic, but if your needling hard i would give it more time. When is started needling hard a month ago i was doing it every week and i felt it wasn't enough recovery time. For example, when i needled normally i would get peeling 5 days after. Needling with more intensity i get flaking-8 days after. Needling every 10-14 days works better when using more intensity. At least in my opinion. Every scalp is different though. You could try to vary things a bit.

Or why not try needling hard once a month. See if that helps.

Would you continue to needle or not, cos I really don't want to make things worse, which i feel like i have done. I'm scared to f*** it up more

 

[LowHairLine]

Where's the source for Follica using 5mm depth needling?

FOLLICA MAX NEEDLING DEPTH
As outlined in this post from the excellent @Bill_Russo FAQ thread, it is mentioned under Chapter 5, point "[0166]" in Follica's US20180280675 patent:

This does of course NOT prove they will actually be doing 5mm, but depths UP TO that are nevertheless at least being considered a possibility (as mentioned in my previous post).

 

[Necr0sis]

NEEDLING INTENSITY
I personally believe harder wounding / longer healing is better bcs:
- I suspect the main reason for lack of results in the past trials was too light wounding due to infection fear / un-bearable pain with rollers (which hurt much more than D2);
- heavy wounders got better / faster results on average than light wounders;
- Follica is considering depths up to 5mm (!);
That being said, we have no study comparing various intensities or forum consensus yet as to what is the correct needling intensity.

RECOMMENDATION
- make your own informed decision bcs there is no proven data;
- to me the wounding on your pics is NOT too much:
I wound harder, but leave enough time to heal;
View attachment 116886
- consider wounding also your vellus on the pic below to try promoting it to terminal;
View attachment 116887
- after the session, flush the scalp with plenty of water to remove blood spots;


D2 DEPTH THROUGH HAIR
Where needling through hair, the depth is reduced by the hair thickness:
to achieve the same depth as in bald areas, you have to increase depth.

Hard numbers depend on too many factors such as:
- hair type (length, thickness, density),
- combing pattern, etc.

RECOMMENDATION
Aiming for redness? blood spots?
- set the depth that brings you to your goal;
- keep the hair wet to reduce overall thickness;


D2 SPEED
Any speed will do:
it's just that lower speeds will require more time to achieve the same result (i.e. intensity / hole count):
FASTER SPEED = shorter session, but more pain;
SLOWER SPEED = longer session, but less pain;

RECOMMENDATION
- use the fastest speed where you can bear the pain;
- if you find yourself backing off, reduce speed;


HAIR PARTING
It's not necessary part your hair for every pass and derimnate only on the part:
you can easily derimate through the hair if you make sure your passes are parallel to the hair direction.

RECOMMENDATION
- make sure your hair is wet for easier combing;
- comb parallel to the intended derminating passes (i.e. horizontal, vertical etc.)
- check out the very informative @74775446 video in the FAQ thread:

Wow, I appreciate the thorough help!

So using 1.75mm on the thicker hair parts is fine?

Also, by vellus you mean the thin hairs on my temple ?

 

[sportsguy97]

Would you continue to needle or not, cos I really don't want to make things worse, which i feel like i have done. I'm scared to f*** it up more

Definitely understandable. And of course i can't answer that as i know everyone is different. I'm saying if you want to continue with needling maybe try it on a every couple week basis. As mentioned on here the wound healing process for some can take weeks/months. Especially if you wounding hard.

Needle every 3-4 weeks and see if that helps. That way you get a sort of happy medium. You feel like your "doing somethng" and at the same time not going overboard. Again i can't speak to if this has negative effects, there is just so much we don't know still. I can only go by what i've read.

 

[Eazy12]

I'd recommend investing in a good webcam to take pics/videos with. I just got a Logitech C920 and its crystal clear...but at the same time the clarity makes me realise how much thinner the crown is since I can never see it very well myself.

 

[layabout]

I'd recommend investing in a good webcam to take pics/videos with. I just got a Logitech C920 and its crystal clear...but at the same time the clarity makes me realise how much thinner the crown is since I can never see it very well myself.

its over.

 

[Eazy12]

its over.

Its over for everyone ITT.

 

[dermaroller666]

Interesting, have you a link to such study?

Researcher also say that people generally see them with a problem with hair loss when they have lost nearly 50% of his hair. (nearly 50% density)

YES but it's in french ,after five minutes