Very Impressive Dermarolling And Minxodil Results - From Tressless
- Reaction score
- 412
You cant mix minoxidil with any oil or apply to oily skin. It wont penetrate your skin and will become almost useless.
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- 317
I've been dealing with some pain above my eyebrow since needling and noticed that I have a swollen preauricular lymph node. Should I see a doctor or will this go away?
I had a decent larger-than-normal shed of hairs from the areas I was microneedling and using minoxidil when I began , lasted a week or 2 then just normal hair cycle shed of 10-20 hairs a day and started seeing new peach fuzz growth replacing the shed hairs around my 2nd month. It’s normal and it’s a good sign of responding well as new hair growth pushed out the miniaturized hairs, in my opinion.
Yeah, don’t stop just because of a shed otherwise you won’t see progress if you do.
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- 706
It will go away in 4 to 5 days. I have gotten swollen lymph nodes from microneedling before
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- 1,628
First off I am bro not you. Yes I shed a tonne for about 2-3 weeks when first starting, it has now decreased significantly, I'm nearly 3 months in. I haven't shed so little since I was a teenager the last couple of weeks. Keep at it, this is all we have except for toxic finasteride right now
- Reaction score
- 33
I was just so happy with the growth and progress of my hair the last 3 week but this morning I spot forehead wrinkles lines from minoxidil use. And I only apply it twice a week, once right after needling and once 24hrs after. I'm only 8 Weeks on regimen. Anyone have experience with minoxidil growth then quit? Any suggestions is very welcome. I will start to applying minoxidil twice a week 48 hrs after needling from now on and just bought retinol cream from Amazon.
Yes I shed big time the first 6 weeks. the picture below is during that shed and last one is recent
Attachments
- Reaction score
- 340
Dermarolling can cause cancer known as basal cell carcinoma.
https://www.oumere.com/blogs/news/h...breakdown-premature-aging-and-possibly-cancer
https://www.oumere.com/blogs/news/h...breakdown-premature-aging-and-possibly-cancer
- Reaction score
- 340
I am tense now
2young2retire
Experienced Member
- Reaction score
- 163
this goumere staff LO L
It amazes me how this person has no idea what on earth they're talking about.
Mechanical damage is any damage done to collagen as a result of a physical stressor. Examples of physical stressors include the degradation of knee collagen as a result of long distance running, skin scraping that results in a wound, and the puncturing of skin from needles.
Degradation of KNEE COLLAGEN as a result of long distance running? Do they mean CARTILAGE? Oh but they can't say cartilage because they're trying to push this nonsense of mechanical damage damages collagen~
Do they not realize that skin scraping results in a wound that heals with scar tissue which is LITERALLY LARGELY COMPRISED OF COLLAGEN? Agh. My irritation with this person's bullshit is showing, but I don't care. I hate people like this who spread blatant misinformation.
Mechanical damage occurs when you puncture your skin with a needle. The needle tears down the collagen fibers, causing degradation.
Uh huh. It also increases collagen types I, III, and VII. There's tons of studies on it. I only linked one review. And microneedling is actually commonly called collagen induction therapy because... it induces collagen production.
The whole theory behind microneedling is that it causes small wounds, which, as we know with big wounds like skin scraping, induces collagen. This is also why chemical peels work, why lasers work, yada yada.
The reason why collagen synthesis will cease sooner in those who dermaroll is because you are going to desensitize the receptors responsible for the signaling of collagen synthesis.
I want to just stare at this person and say "source?"
It is also paramount to understand that any collagen made from dermarolling is a stress response by the body, and collagen made as a result of a stress response is not healthy.
Fear mongering claim, never says WHY apparently collagen from microneedling is unhealthy. Not surprised of course.
The other reason why collagen synthesis will cease prematurely is because dermarolling causes damage to the extracellular matrix in the form of scarring. Scarring occurs because dermarolling destroys the scaffolding in which collagen adheres, which means that even if collagen is being made, it will not be able to maintain its place in the extracellular matrix, and instead of being held in the skin, will be metabolized and destroyed by the body.
Bullllllshit. Scarring is literally what the collagen is. Anyone who actually reads scientific research will roll their eyes at this person using buzzwords like "scaffolding" incorrectly. Scarring (which is collagen) is the scaffolding. And scaffolding is just a synonym for the extracellular matrix. There is nothing which our collagen, elastin, fibronectin, hyaluronic acid has to "sit on" or whatever. Collagen metabolized and destroyed by the body? LOL. Like how our bodies do every single day because we naturally make the enzyme collagenase (such as matrix mellaproteinase 1) which breaks down collagen? Microneedling doesn't cause increased collagenase expression whatsoever! UGH. I hate people who pretend they know their sh*t and they don't. They throw around words to scare the uninformed people and this is why it irritates me so f*****g much because people believe this crap.
When you kill a live skin cell, you accelerate the aging process because a live skin cell must be replaced by another live skin cell via cellular division. When you replace a live cell via cellular division, you cut a bit of the ends of the chromosome within the nucleus, called the telomere. After around 50 divisions, the telomere gets cut off completely and aging sets in. When you dermaroll, you accelerate the rate in which cellular division must occur, and therefore you accelerate the rate in which telomere depletion and, ipso facto, aging occurs at a faster rate.
WRONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!
Okay, sorry. I'm just angry at this person going on and on about bullshit when I know it's bullshit.
This whole paragraph? Totally untrue.
Copy pasted from my writeup here:
I've spent the last few hours reading the research on this topic, which was largely going through the studies of interest cited in this review of Hayflick limit research.
Terms to understand:
Cumulative Population Doublings (CPD): Hayflick claimed that a cell could divide 250times, which is "more than enough cells for several lifetimes."
Replicative senescence (RS): The point at which a cell can no longer divide and does not respond to growth factor stimulation to divide.
In vitro: Research done in a petri dish using cell cultures like fibroblasts.
In vivo: Research done on living human subjects.
Basic concepts for the reader to understand:
A main takeaway here is that RS is often reached by many other means other than cellular division. Cytotoxic factors such as alcohol and radiation cause stress-induced premature senescence (SIPS). And of note here is that Hayflick's research used cell cultures with 20% oxygen to come up with that 250 figure. Actual physiological conditions in the human body are ~3% oxygen, which in vitro research using this parameter has reported a limit of 270. This demonstrates oxidative stress induces RS.
When we have RS due to cellular division, we see telomere shortening. But our gold standard of in vivo research on human subjects has shown that "studies in centenarians have raised doubts on whether telomere shortening occurs in vivo and whether senescence-associated genes in vitro are also differentially expressed in vivo." So basically, we see RS occurring not because of cellular division limits but because of stress inducers, such as oxidative stress. And oxidative stress is the whole concept of why UVA rays are bad: UVA rays generate reactive oxygen species (i.e. free radicals) and cause a negative chain reaction of cellular and DNA damage, thus the signs of premature aging which we call photoaging or sun damage.
The fact is that we're finding environmental stressors to be the cause of RS, not cellular division rates. So as a layperson who is merely a skincare research hobbyist and who constantly seeks out the knowledge to curate an optimized anti aging routine for fun, I'll absolutely keep on using retinoids and chemical exfoliants which we know increases the rate of skin cell turnover. And I'll certainly keep using an SPF 50+ PA++++ sunscreen to prevent the deleterious effects of UVA damage and its key role in oxidative stress.
I'll end this writeup quoting the review: "while there is little evidence to suggest that cells running out of divisions are a major factor in aging, it is possible that stress and various insults trigger cell senescence in vivo."
End copy paste.
So TLDR, microneedling is awesome, well researched, well proven. This person is full of sh*t, they have no idea what they're talking about, and they use scientific terms in completely wrong ways to promote completely wrong ideas to fear monger people and it's disgusting. They don't know their sh*t, but I am very confident I know mine. I wish I could just sit with them face to face and show them all the studies and see their face as they try to do mental gymnastics.
I think their claim that a cell can only reproduce 50 times (instead of 250 which was what Hayflick originally claimed) is the crown jewel in showing their utter idiocy. How crazy if our cells could only divide 50 times in our lifetimes LOL. Stupid.
Edit: Ahaha, just saw their four references. Three about tumors, mind you. The fourth is this one! Which is just about connective tissue composition. NONE of this substantiates their fear mongering microneedling claims. What a bunch of horseshit that article is. Classic example of people misusing science to buttress absolutely unscientific claims. Genuinely makes me mad, but makes me also realize why putting in so much of my own time and effort to dispelling these myths is important. Because otherwise, people might actually buy into the nonsense they read.
source
https://www.reddit.com/r/SkincareAd..._article_claims_dermarolling_causes_collagen/
i just came across goumere also the other day and indeed stupidity exists no matter the fact that our universe is probabilistic
It amazes me how this person has no idea what on earth they're talking about.
Mechanical damage is any damage done to collagen as a result of a physical stressor. Examples of physical stressors include the degradation of knee collagen as a result of long distance running, skin scraping that results in a wound, and the puncturing of skin from needles.
Degradation of KNEE COLLAGEN as a result of long distance running? Do they mean CARTILAGE? Oh but they can't say cartilage because they're trying to push this nonsense of mechanical damage damages collagen~
Do they not realize that skin scraping results in a wound that heals with scar tissue which is LITERALLY LARGELY COMPRISED OF COLLAGEN? Agh. My irritation with this person's bullshit is showing, but I don't care. I hate people like this who spread blatant misinformation.
Mechanical damage occurs when you puncture your skin with a needle. The needle tears down the collagen fibers, causing degradation.
Uh huh. It also increases collagen types I, III, and VII. There's tons of studies on it. I only linked one review. And microneedling is actually commonly called collagen induction therapy because... it induces collagen production.
The whole theory behind microneedling is that it causes small wounds, which, as we know with big wounds like skin scraping, induces collagen. This is also why chemical peels work, why lasers work, yada yada.
The reason why collagen synthesis will cease sooner in those who dermaroll is because you are going to desensitize the receptors responsible for the signaling of collagen synthesis.
I want to just stare at this person and say "source?"
It is also paramount to understand that any collagen made from dermarolling is a stress response by the body, and collagen made as a result of a stress response is not healthy.
Fear mongering claim, never says WHY apparently collagen from microneedling is unhealthy. Not surprised of course.
The other reason why collagen synthesis will cease prematurely is because dermarolling causes damage to the extracellular matrix in the form of scarring. Scarring occurs because dermarolling destroys the scaffolding in which collagen adheres, which means that even if collagen is being made, it will not be able to maintain its place in the extracellular matrix, and instead of being held in the skin, will be metabolized and destroyed by the body.
Bullllllshit. Scarring is literally what the collagen is. Anyone who actually reads scientific research will roll their eyes at this person using buzzwords like "scaffolding" incorrectly. Scarring (which is collagen) is the scaffolding. And scaffolding is just a synonym for the extracellular matrix. There is nothing which our collagen, elastin, fibronectin, hyaluronic acid has to "sit on" or whatever. Collagen metabolized and destroyed by the body? LOL. Like how our bodies do every single day because we naturally make the enzyme collagenase (such as matrix mellaproteinase 1) which breaks down collagen? Microneedling doesn't cause increased collagenase expression whatsoever! UGH. I hate people who pretend they know their sh*t and they don't. They throw around words to scare the uninformed people and this is why it irritates me so f*****g much because people believe this crap.
When you kill a live skin cell, you accelerate the aging process because a live skin cell must be replaced by another live skin cell via cellular division. When you replace a live cell via cellular division, you cut a bit of the ends of the chromosome within the nucleus, called the telomere. After around 50 divisions, the telomere gets cut off completely and aging sets in. When you dermaroll, you accelerate the rate in which cellular division must occur, and therefore you accelerate the rate in which telomere depletion and, ipso facto, aging occurs at a faster rate.
WRONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!
Okay, sorry. I'm just angry at this person going on and on about bullshit when I know it's bullshit.
This whole paragraph? Totally untrue.
Copy pasted from my writeup here:
I've spent the last few hours reading the research on this topic, which was largely going through the studies of interest cited in this review of Hayflick limit research.
Terms to understand:
Cumulative Population Doublings (CPD): Hayflick claimed that a cell could divide 250times, which is "more than enough cells for several lifetimes."
Replicative senescence (RS): The point at which a cell can no longer divide and does not respond to growth factor stimulation to divide.
In vitro: Research done in a petri dish using cell cultures like fibroblasts.
In vivo: Research done on living human subjects.
Basic concepts for the reader to understand:
- RS does not mean cell death. Cells do not die when they reach senescence. They merely stop dividing. They are still metabolically active.
- Do not conflate in vitro findings with in vivo findings. We are living human beings. We are not cell cultures in a petri dish. Do not equate what in vitro research finds to what actually happens in our bodies.
A main takeaway here is that RS is often reached by many other means other than cellular division. Cytotoxic factors such as alcohol and radiation cause stress-induced premature senescence (SIPS). And of note here is that Hayflick's research used cell cultures with 20% oxygen to come up with that 250 figure. Actual physiological conditions in the human body are ~3% oxygen, which in vitro research using this parameter has reported a limit of 270. This demonstrates oxidative stress induces RS.
When we have RS due to cellular division, we see telomere shortening. But our gold standard of in vivo research on human subjects has shown that "studies in centenarians have raised doubts on whether telomere shortening occurs in vivo and whether senescence-associated genes in vitro are also differentially expressed in vivo." So basically, we see RS occurring not because of cellular division limits but because of stress inducers, such as oxidative stress. And oxidative stress is the whole concept of why UVA rays are bad: UVA rays generate reactive oxygen species (i.e. free radicals) and cause a negative chain reaction of cellular and DNA damage, thus the signs of premature aging which we call photoaging or sun damage.
The fact is that we're finding environmental stressors to be the cause of RS, not cellular division rates. So as a layperson who is merely a skincare research hobbyist and who constantly seeks out the knowledge to curate an optimized anti aging routine for fun, I'll absolutely keep on using retinoids and chemical exfoliants which we know increases the rate of skin cell turnover. And I'll certainly keep using an SPF 50+ PA++++ sunscreen to prevent the deleterious effects of UVA damage and its key role in oxidative stress.
I'll end this writeup quoting the review: "while there is little evidence to suggest that cells running out of divisions are a major factor in aging, it is possible that stress and various insults trigger cell senescence in vivo."
End copy paste.
So TLDR, microneedling is awesome, well researched, well proven. This person is full of sh*t, they have no idea what they're talking about, and they use scientific terms in completely wrong ways to promote completely wrong ideas to fear monger people and it's disgusting. They don't know their sh*t, but I am very confident I know mine. I wish I could just sit with them face to face and show them all the studies and see their face as they try to do mental gymnastics.
I think their claim that a cell can only reproduce 50 times (instead of 250 which was what Hayflick originally claimed) is the crown jewel in showing their utter idiocy. How crazy if our cells could only divide 50 times in our lifetimes LOL. Stupid.
Edit: Ahaha, just saw their four references. Three about tumors, mind you. The fourth is this one! Which is just about connective tissue composition. NONE of this substantiates their fear mongering microneedling claims. What a bunch of horseshit that article is. Classic example of people misusing science to buttress absolutely unscientific claims. Genuinely makes me mad, but makes me also realize why putting in so much of my own time and effort to dispelling these myths is important. Because otherwise, people might actually buy into the nonsense they read.
source
https://www.reddit.com/r/SkincareAd..._article_claims_dermarolling_causes_collagen/
i just came across goumere also the other day and indeed stupidity exists no matter the fact that our universe is probabilistic
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- Reaction score
- 706
"Generally, basal cell carcinomas are the least dangerous of skin cancers. They rarely metastasize (spread) or become life-threatening. Often they barely appear to grow or change for years, and people may leave them alone until they finally become too unattractive to bear or begin bleeding."
- Reaction score
- 706
Just took my first dutasteride pill. Wish me luck bros.
I’ve also read that reading bullshit scaremongering blogs with an agenda gives you cancer.
Microneedling needles are waaaaay to big to damage DNA at such a microscopic level, so not biting on this bullshit, sorry.
- Reaction score
- 706
Jerked off 5 hours after taking dutasteride, just to see if it has any immediate effect. I shot out the biggest load of c*m in my life.
I encourage the rest of you to give dutasteride a try. It gives me this this feeling of certainty regarding the maintenance of my hair. I am already an above average finasteride responder. So this is gonna be great.
I encourage the rest of you to give dutasteride a try. It gives me this this feeling of certainty regarding the maintenance of my hair. I am already an above average finasteride responder. So this is gonna be great.
- Reaction score
- 33
Are you saying dutasteride doesn't mess with your sex drive? I get low sex drive on finastaride
- Reaction score
- 706
Finasteride made my sex drive really high the first month. Then it just fell to normal levels. Extra horniness is probably my body's initial response to DHT blockers.
- Reaction score
- 9
Hey guys. I've been microneedling with a dr. Pen a6 for about 3 weeks now, once a week at 1.5 mm. I usually go till there is clear blood and redness.
Just kinda had a question for the guys who have been getting good regrowth at 1.5mm: do you do it once every week? And do you do it to the point of blood? I watched some dude on youtube called keratinbrotherhood who was saying that peak collagen action takes place 5-7 days after a session so to do it every week is excess and is interrupting the process, potentially doing more harm than good. But its werid cause I feel like most people seem to recommend the once weekly 1.5 sessions. How do I know the right way to go about this? Sorry if its been discussed in depth before but there are so many pages to go through.
Just kinda had a question for the guys who have been getting good regrowth at 1.5mm: do you do it once every week? And do you do it to the point of blood? I watched some dude on youtube called keratinbrotherhood who was saying that peak collagen action takes place 5-7 days after a session so to do it every week is excess and is interrupting the process, potentially doing more harm than good. But its werid cause I feel like most people seem to recommend the once weekly 1.5 sessions. How do I know the right way to go about this? Sorry if its been discussed in depth before but there are so many pages to go through.