Ways to prevent finasteride sides?

[sandyc]

So I'm waiting for my Finpecia to arrive. Gonna take 0.5mg a day for two months then go to 1mg.

Are there any supplements I can take to at least help prevent sides even if they don't happen?

I often take 50mg of zinc every few days, I'm gonna cut down on drinking, exercise more.

 

[josetheodore1]

u have any side.

 

[Prop]

Ways to prevent finasteride sides?

first: don't take finasteride

 

[Wuffer]

First of all, take the 1MG dose, and don't switch it up. Changing your hormones so suddenly is a jolt to your system, but changing them twice by modifying your dosage could potentially make things worse.

No reason to be taking 50MG of zinc; take a normal multivitamin. Most contain somewhere around 10MG of zinc.

I'm pretty sure there is the exact same chance of having sides whether you are healthy or if you are out of shape and drink. That being said, being out of shape and drinking alcohol are two common causes of sexual problems, so it's good to keep in shape and to only booze in moderation. That was actually the hardest for me; I was used to 1-2 beers a night after work, and binge drinking on the weekends. I've cut out my weekday drinking and feel way better because of it!

 

[Ende]

First of all, take the 1MG dose, and don't switch it up. Changing your hormones so suddenly is a jolt to your system, but changing them twice by modifying your dosage could potentially make things worse.

No reason to be taking 50MG of zinc; take a normal multivitamin. Most contain somewhere around 10MG of zinc.

I'm pretty sure there is the exact same chance of having sides whether you are healthy or if you are out of shape and drink.

You don't know what the f*** you're talking about, so don't give advice. 0.5 mg is as potent as 1 mg finasteride. Large doses of zinc works as an aromatase inhibitor, and will help with side effects from finasteride, which begins with DHT deficiency and excessive estrogen. Fat cells contains a lot of aromatase enzymes; enzymes which converts testosterone to estrogen. Alcohol is linked to increased aromatase activity as well.

sandyc, you shouldn't use more than the RDA if you don't have any side effects. 50 mg zinc is suppressive to your estrogen level, and regular consumption will cause problems eventually.

 

[ponder]

0.5 mg is as potent as 1 mg finasteride.

Hi there Enden, if that's true in terms of the benefit, in your opinion would you say that cutting back from 1mg to .5mg would be also provide the same effect? I've been on finasteride for about 3 years, no real side effects, but was hoping to cut my dosage in half to just maintain the hair I've grown while hopefully minimizing chances of future side effects...I don't necessarily need the full effect of regrowth anymore, which I'm happy I got.

Thanks for any advice, I've read a lot of your stuff around the forums and you always speak good sense. unk:

 

[Wuffer]

Enden, you need to calm down. I'm only trying to help here; if you believe I am wrong, why can't you just post a reply politely stating that you don't agree, and offer a different perspective? Emotional outbursts and personal attacks don't vouch for your credibility. I have very much come to respect your opinions and your insights up until this point, so lets take it down a notch.

 

[sandyc]

Enden, I realise you'd mostly advise against finasteride but in your opinion do you think taking 0.5mg a day for two months then going to 1mg could cause problems as opposed to starting on 1mg? I've even thought of doing 0.25mg for a month, then 0.5mg for a month then go on 1mg. Partly due to money and also to ween onto it.

The Zinc tablets I have are 200mg. Not even sure why they sell them to be honest since one tablet is way over the RDA.

I will hold back on the Zinc and maybe take a 50mg once a week or so. I know that alcohol greatly depletes Zinc.

 

[Timi]

Hello Enden

makes Arimidex-Femara and so on... a better Libido?

0,5mg Femara 2x in the week

Timi

 

[Ende]

Enden, you need to calm down. I'm only trying to help here; if you believe I am wrong, why can't you just post a reply politely stating that you don't agree, and offer a different perspective? Emotional outbursts and personal attacks don't vouch for your credibility. I have very much come to respect your opinions and your insights up until this point, so lets take it down a notch.

I didn't mean to come on that strong, but you're provoking me. You're talking to people who're suffering from a lot of problems after using finasteride, telling them that psychology probably has a lot to do with their problems, which isn't true at all. It's disrespectful, and now you're telling people that reducing the finasteride dose to 0.5 mg a day will cause a lot of hormonal fluctuations, that large doses of zinc has no function, and that people who're overweight doesn't have a higher risk of developing side effects from finasteride - which isn't true at all! If you want a calm and constructive discussion, I suggest that you get your facts right before telling people how it is.

Peace.

 

[Ende]

0.5 mg is as potent as 1 mg finasteride.

Hi there Enden, if that's true in terms of the benefit, in your opinion would you say that cutting back from 1mg to .5mg would be also provide the same effect? I've been on finasteride for about 3 years, no real side effects, but was hoping to cut my dosage in half to just maintain the hair I've grown while hopefully minimizing chances of future side effects...I don't necessarily need the full effect of regrowth anymore, which I'm happy I got.

Hi, 1 mg is the official dose, and I think you should stick to it, but cutting down to 0.5 mg a day shouldn't change anything.

Enden, I realise you'd mostly advise against finasteride but in your opinion do you think taking 0.5mg a day for two months then going to 1mg could cause problems as opposed to starting on 1mg? I've even thought of doing 0.25mg for a month, then 0.5mg for a month then go on 1mg. Partly due to money and also to ween onto it.

There is no point in tapering on, nor tapering off the drug. Even 0.05 mg is extremely effective. Tapering off the drug if you have sexual side effects, is dangerous.

Hello Enden

makes Arimidex-Femara and so on... a better Libido?

0,5mg Femara 2x in the week

Timi

Theoretically yes - if excessive estrogen is causing trouble, but prescription AI's are very potent. They'll reduce your libido and give you ED (among several other side effects) when you suppress your estrogen level too much. I recommend using large doses of zinc instead.

 

[Wuffer]

Fair enough Enden; peace man.

 

[sandyc]

Enden, I'm looking to taper onto 1mg mostly for cost. So you think it'll not cause any probs changing the dose up to 1mg slowly?

Also, I thought it was better to taper off it if you had sides? I thought just stopping made your system crash.

 

[Ende]

I've explained this before, but when you get side effects from finasteride, you're DHT deficient, your estrogen level is increasing, and your testosterone level is decreasing as a consequence. When you quit treatment, your testosterone level decreases further, because some of it gets converted to DHT, and if this wave of DHT isn't enough to dominate the excessive estrogen, you'll develop secondary hypogonadism. That's why you shouldn't taper off. It's no point in doing so either, since even 0.05 mg finasteride is very potent.

Tapering on won't cause any problems, but you may react with side effects, like a lot of other people. 0.2 mg finasteride suppresses around 60% DHT. 1 mg suppresses around 70%. To be completely honest; if I could start all over again with finasteride, I would use 0.25 mg a day.

 

[Mens Rea]

I've explained this before, but when you get side effects from finasteride, you're DHT deficient, your estrogen level is increasing, and your testosterone level is decreasing as a consequence. When you quit treatment, your testosterone level decreases further, because some of it gets converted to DHT, and if this wave of DHT isn't enough to dominate the excessive estrogen, you'll develop secondary hypogonadism. That's why you shouldn't taper off. It's no point in doing so either, since even 0.05 mg finasteride is very potent..

None of this applies to everyone Enden.

Firstly, you get in INCREASE in testosterone when you start finasteride, too. This is because less (usually 0.3% of test is converted to DHT, now it isn't) so this remains as test instead. Estrogen rises by about 15% as we know.

Alot of people can't hack the additional estrogen. Estrogen is linked to prostrate problems etc, too, as you know.

Not to mention the body tries to "keep up" with increases in one hormone. Example: If your testosterone increases often your estrogen will as a natural response.

As you can see above there is ALOT of variables. THat's why propeciahelp is full of different levels of hormones. Some with low test, some with high. Same goes for estrogen and DHT. I'm more inclined to believe that people's sexual health gets messed up because there is so many feedback mechanisms triggered here (As per above) that the entire endoctrine system is struggling to normalise. Conflicting signals from hormones going both directions = potential chaos

I personally wasn't and was not DHT deficient as my hair has always been falling out even on finasteride, despite having sides. These sides got much worse AFTER stopping finasteride despite the fact i have extremely high out of range DHT levels. Therefore you can't conclude that deficiency of DHT is the reason for the sides. SUPPRESSION OF THE DHT and the enzyme in the first place is what triggers the process though, that's where it all begins.

 

[Ende]

I said - when you get side effects from finasteride, and hypogonadism is exactly where it ends. The side effects from finasteride are mainly caused by excessive estrogen, at least the physical side effects. You've trouble with excessive estrogen yourself, but you're not hypogonadal. Several other hormones are affected through a chain reaction, but DHT deficiency and excessive estrogen are where it begins - because DHT is the estrogen antagonist.

If you're under estrogen dominance, DHT deficient is exactly what you are. Hormone ranges are bullshit. Ratios are the only thing that matters. You know this.

 

[Mens Rea]

If you're under estrogen dominance, DHT deficient is exactly what you are. Hormone ranges are bullshit. Ratios are the only thing that matters. You know this.

Completely agree about ranges my friend.

I just find it difficult reconcile that i was or am DHT deficient when i've got ridiculously high DHT levels and im losing my hair as fast as ever.

I actually think my Testosterone is falsely elevated and DHT might be as well ALL BECAUSE of excess estrogen. So, yes, my T/DHT/E2 ratio is no doubt different that what it was pre-finasteride, but i might actually have higher T/DHT due to natural feedback mechanism of my body.

I know DHT offsets estrogen but it's not as simple as that imo. Not in my case anyway. There's are more mechanisms than this, the DHT/E2 ratio doesn't seem exclusively strong because if it was i probably would have low e2. There are other things that elevate e2 via different feedback mechanisms


It'll be interesting how i respond to more normal e2 levels....

 

[Ende]

There's are more mechanisms than this, the DHT/E2 ratio doesn't seem exclusively strong because if it was i probably would have low e2. There are other things that elevate e2 via different feedback mechanisms

It depends on how much DHT you have in relation to estrogen, but maybe you're right, that something else is involved as well, since you're losing hair. During my initial experiment with Proviron, I didn't notice hair loss at all, probably because I had so much estrogen. Now, when I'm low on estrogen, I feel strong androgenic effects. I can literally feel my beard grow after using 25 mg. Another thing; you've a very high testosterone level! Testosterone makes you shed too. Your T level is slightly lower than mine at the end of the week, when I'm using 100 mg Telogen Effluvium a week. Estrogen is critical for your sexual function, and too much, or just a little bit deficiency, will cause trouble.

What other mechanisms than aromatase, increases the estrogen level in men?

It'll be interesting how i respond to more normal e2 levels....

Indeed. I can't wait.

 

[Wuffer]

I'm just curious, how do you guys monitor your hormone levels? Do you submit them to a clinic or is there some sort of at-home kit you can use?

I have started up at the gym lately and am interested in monitoring my testosterone levels in relation to the types of exercises I do. If I could get an at-home test kit, it would be an interesting experiment.. Sort of like one of those fish water test kits.

 

[sandyc]

Enden, you seem to know a lot about this so please excuse me if I'm asking you a lot of questions.

Do you think someone on finasteride should avoid things that raise estrogen like alcohol, soy etc?