What is your opinion on diet?

[Guest]

I always thought people who were over weight end up converting more testosterone to estrogen. I then see studies where people who have more fat intake have higher testosterone levels.

Which is it?

 

[docj077]

I always thought that obesity in men was associated with low normal or below normal total testosterone due to the decrease in SHBG. Free testosterone is typically normal. However, in women, obesity is actually associated with decreased SHBG and increased free testosterone.

Estrogen, on the other hand, should be increased due to the increase in aromatase associated with more adipose tissue.

 

[michael barry]

Doctor,

Luv ya brother, but I always thought obesity amongst otherwise fairly healthy people (no pituitary or irregular genetic conditions) was due to not burning enough of the calories that one eats, thus storing more than they either burn or process.

Simply put, too much food in the mouth, too much time on the couch. But thats just me.



I DO know one thing for certain however, once a fat cell is created, it doesn't really ever go away (unless you get damn near anorexic-thin). It just shrinks if you lose weight, but its there a' waitin' for a period of inactivity or too much food or both. Then it will blow right back up like a balloon.

 

[docj077]

Doctor,

Luv ya brother, but I always thought obesity amongst otherwise fairly healthy people (no pituitary or irregular genetic conditions) was due to not burning enough of the calories that one eats, thus storing more than they either burn or process.

Simply put, too much food in the mouth, too much time on the couch. But thats just me.

No, you're correct with regards to the common etiology of obesity. However, I think that we're talking about the hormonal consequences or even benefits of gaining adipose tissue.

I DO know one thing for certain however, once a fat cell is created, it doesn't really ever go away (unless you get damn near anorexic-thin). It just shrinks if you lose weight, but its there a' waitin' for a period of inactivity or too much food or both. Then it will blow right back up like a balloon.

You're actually born with all the fat cells that you'll ever have. A person just has to fill them up. For that very reason, people that get lipo-suction will end up being lumpy and generally physically asymmetrical later on in life as your body doesn't create new adipose tissue once it's removed.

 

[CCS]

eating fat makes more testosterone. Having fat on your body makes less testosterone and more estrogen. There is no contradiction. This should be a well known fact. Eating fat does not make you fat. Eating more total calories than you burn makes you fat.

 

[CCS]

it is also a myth that saturated fat is bad. Too much of anything is bad. Just get 20% of your daily calories from fat, and half of that from saturated fat. You need saturated fat to absorb fat soluble vitamins, and it makes good building blocks and is not oxidized as easily. Your body can make due without it, just getting essential fatty acids, but you will not be as healthy. Now if you pig out or eat 40% of your calories from fat, then you are asking for it. As long as you get enough vitamin K (no, not the RDA) and anti-oxidants, elevated cholesterol levels are not an issue. And cholesterol is what rides inside those lipo-proteins.

 

[DHTfighter33]

it is also a myth that saturated fat is bad. Too much of anything is bad. Just get 20% of your daily calories from fat, and half of that from saturated fat. You need saturated fat to absorb fat soluble vitamins, and it makes good building blocks and is not oxidized as easily. Your body can make due without it, just getting essential fatty acids, but you will not be as healthy. Now if you pig out or eat 40% of your calories from fat, then you are asking for it. As long as you get enough vitamin K (no, not the RDA) and anti-oxidants, elevated cholesterol levels are not an issue. And cholesterol is what rides inside those lipo-proteins.

I get 100% of vitamin K in my multi vitamin, how does this effect ones's colesterol? Do you feel high a saturated fat diet could lead to elevated cholesterol levels?
Also, might a lower fat diet lead to increased levels of SHBG, which might bind more "free testosterone"...possibly resulting in less raw material to make DHT?

 

[docj077]

it is also a myth that saturated fat is bad. Too much of anything is bad. Just get 20% of your daily calories from fat, and half of that from saturated fat. You need saturated fat to absorb fat soluble vitamins, and it makes good building blocks and is not oxidized as easily. Your body can make due without it, just getting essential fatty acids, but you will not be as healthy. Now if you pig out or eat 40% of your calories from fat, then you are asking for it. As long as you get enough vitamin K (no, not the RDA) and anti-oxidants, elevated cholesterol levels are not an issue. And cholesterol is what rides inside those lipo-proteins.

I get 100% of vitamin K in my multi vitamin, how does this effect ones's colesterol? Do you feel high a saturated fat diet could lead to elevated cholesterol levels?
Also, might a lower fat diet lead to increased levels of SHBG, which might bind more "free testosterone"...possibly resulting in less raw material to make DHT?

Just to let you know, I believe that he's referring to Vitamin E and not Vitamin K. As far as I know, Vitamin K is mostly involved in gamma-carboxylation of certain clotting factors and has no real influence on cholesterol levels. Vitamin E, on the other hand, is a different story. I think it's a typo on his part.

As for the SHBG, don't be fooled into thinking that you can control your hormonal profile so easily with diet or supplements. Increasing your SHBG will likely increase your total testosterone and your free testosterone will remain the same as the pituitary-hypothalamic axis will correct itself in order to maintain your testosterone levels around your physiological set point. All the talk about diet and altering your hormones is pretty much hypothetical. I could see hormone levels being lowered when a person is placed on a statin, but you'd have to make pretty severe dietary modifications and even then I don't think it's a proven phenomenon. Hopefully, someone will have large randomized study that will shed some light on this issue.

Also, remember that any study that demonstrates diet affecting certain physiological processes is likely incomplete. Diet and it's effects on hormones is likely directly related to the particular diet and the particular race that consumes it. I hate to say it, but when it comes to effects that food and the external environment have on each of our bodies, it definitely depends upon what your racial background is in both the short and long term.

 

[RAKBS]

it is also a myth that saturated fat is bad. Too much of anything is bad. Just get 20% of your daily calories from fat, and half of that from saturated fat. You need saturated fat to absorb fat soluble vitamins, and it makes good building blocks and is not oxidized as easily. Your body can make due without it, just getting essential fatty acids, but you will not be as healthy. Now if you pig out or eat 40% of your calories from fat, then you are asking for it. As long as you get enough vitamin K (no, not the RDA) and anti-oxidants, elevated cholesterol levels are not an issue. And cholesterol is what rides inside those lipo-proteins.

The body can turn unsaturated fat into saturated fat if need be, right?

 

[docj077]

it is also a myth that saturated fat is bad. Too much of anything is bad. Just get 20% of your daily calories from fat, and half of that from saturated fat. You need saturated fat to absorb fat soluble vitamins, and it makes good building blocks and is not oxidized as easily. Your body can make due without it, just getting essential fatty acids, but you will not be as healthy. Now if you pig out or eat 40% of your calories from fat, then you are asking for it. As long as you get enough vitamin K (no, not the RDA) and anti-oxidants, elevated cholesterol levels are not an issue. And cholesterol is what rides inside those lipo-proteins.

The body can turn unsaturated fat into saturated fat if need be, right?

Lipid peroxidation can be accomplished by the human body. However, it's a process that you want to avoid as saturated fatty acids fit together better and allow for greater plaque formation. Vitamin E prevents such peroxidation. As for saturated fat being required, that is actually not true. Certain fat soluble vitamins actually require unsaturated fat in order to be properly absorped. Also, if I remember correctly, all the essential fatty acids are unsaturated. A healthy diet should have more unsaturated than saturated fat.

 

[Bryan]

Lipid peroxidation can be accomplished by the human body. However, it's a process that you want to avoid as saturated fatty acids fit together better and allow for greater plaque formation.

Docj, I'm a little confused by that statement!

I'm unaware of any actual need for fatty acids to be oxidized in the human body, except when they're "burned" for energy in the mitochondria. Also, saturated fatty acids at least are more resistant to oxidation than unsaturated ones, and oxidized LDL particles are more and more being considered to be the first step in the atherogenic process.

What's confusing me the most is that you mention oxidation in the first sentence, but saturation/unsaturation in the second sentence.

Vitamin E prevents such peroxidation. As for saturated fat being required, that is actually not true. Certain fat soluble vitamins actually require unsaturated fat in order to be properly absorped.

I've never heard such a claim (that the degree of saturation/unsaturation has anything to do with it). In fact, I heard about a study that was reported in my local newspaper many years ago which recommended that you NOT take vitamin E along with vegetable oils, because the vitamin E could supposedly be "carried out of the system" by the oils (no, they didn't elaborate on that, and even at the time, I thought that was a rather odd-sounding claim).

Also, if I remember correctly, all the essential fatty acids are unsaturated.

Yes. There aren't any saturated fatty acids which are essential to human nutrition. If I remember correctly, the three essential ones are the following:

linoleic acid (two carbon double-bonds)
alpha-linolenic acid (three carbon double-bonds)
arachidonic acid (four carbon double-bonds [??])

 

[OverMachoGrande]

When it comes to diet, it is wise to stay away from animal fat and refind carbs. When animal fat is consumed, it causes a spike in cholesterol production, which then causes a spike in testosterone production. When there is excess testosterone or "free testosterone" due to low SHBG, the "free testosterone" is converted to estradiol (a very potent estrogen) via the aromatase enzyme. When estradiol and/or excess estrogen is accumulated in the body, it overpowers the masculine effects of testosterone. Since an androgen must be in a dominate position for males, and testosterone is now becomming depleted due to the excess of estrogen, which is now becomming the "new" dominate hormone. The body produces DHT from the "free testosterone" (via alpha 5 reductase) to overpower the estrogen which overpowered the testosterone, leaving DHT as the dominate androgen. When DHT is the dominate androgen, male pattern baldness and enlarged prostate are some of the symptoms. So to make it simple::::rolonged consumption of animal fat creates estrogen, too much estrogen makes the body produce DHT to counter-balance the androgen/estrogen deficit leading to a hormonal imbalance, which is in my opinion the cause of M.P.B. When refiend carbs (soda,candy,sweets,white bread,etc.) are consumed it causes a spike in insulin production. Insulin downregulates SHBG causing more "free testosterone" able to be converted into estradiol and DHT. Prolonged consumption of refind carbs can cause insulin resistence and diabetes which causes havoc to your hormone balance and can result in excess body fat. Body fat contains aromatase enzymes which deplete testosterone, causing a increase in DHT. Eating whole-grain is the way to go. The more fiber you consume the less insulin is produced and the more estrogen is removed from your body. If you inhibit just DHT you are going to have an increase in estrogens which makes your body produce more DHT...which means you are not really solving the problem, just slowing it down. To solve the problem you need to inhibit not only alpha 5 reductase but more importantly aromatase. Some Aromatase inhibitors are: resveratrol (found in peanutbutter/grapes), DIM (found in broccoli), Zinc (found in oatmeal/brown rice) and my personal favorite Lignans (found in flaxseeds/oatmeal).

 

[H/B]

"If you inhibit just DHT you are going to have an increase in estrogens which makes your body produce more DHT..."

:shakehead: does not happen that way

 

[Bryan]

So to make it simple::::rolonged consumption of animal fat creates estrogen, too much estrogen makes the body produce DHT to counter-balance the androgen/estrogen deficit leading to a hormonal imbalance, which is in my opinion the cause of M.P.B.

I totally disagree with a great many things in your post, but let's just stick to the statement above. Estrogen does NOT make the body produce DHT. Where are you getting garbage like that??