What's the verdict on 17-alpha-estradiol??

[science-jay]

I've never hear any discussions about this topical. I've scanned a lot of posts on different forums and almost ANYONE who used it had has benefits!

strange there's no talk about it. I live in europe and the stuff is dead cheap here. I've heard of spironolactone-users who had no succes on spironolactone but have had succes on 17a-estradiol.

is it safe?

I'm thinking about mixing this stuff with spironolactone-cream, think this is a good idea?

i had bad sides on finasteride so i'm looking for better topical anti-androgens but i'm not willing to use flutamide or topical finasteride.

greetz

SJ.

 

[CCS]

sounds interesting. Any ideas what 17-alpha-estradiol might do? can you google or pubmed search what this stuff does in the body? it probably has multiple effects taken internally.

 

[Rage]

Women tend to develop Androgenetic Alopecia later and milder than men, but with the decline of serum estrogens during the menopause many women show an accelerated progression of Androgenetic Alopecia. Estrogens may play a protective role against the development of Androgenetic Alopecia, because pregnant women are in some way protected form androgenetic hair loss, but lose their hairs again postpartum. In Europe, topically applied estrogens such as 17ß-estadiole are used to treat androgenetic alopecia, both in women and men. The femal hormone 17ß- Estradiol can be used only in women, whereas the hormonally almost inactive isomer 17a-estradiol can be used in men as well. Although some clinical studies show considerable success of such an approach, the underlying pathways of 17a-estradiol-induced hair regrowth are unknown. It is likely not a receptor mediated hormon effect, since 17ß-Estradiol is an hormon and 17a-estradiol not. Recently it has been shown that hair follicles from women with Androgenetic Alopecia express more aromatase activity compared to male hair follices, and interestingly those women taking aromatase inhibitors tend to develop rapidly progressive Androgenetic Alopecia. These circumstantial lines of evidence indicate a role of aromatase during the pathogenesis of Androgenetic Alopecia. In order to unravel the pathways of 17a-estradiol-mediated effcets on the hair follicles, we measured aromatase activity in isolated intact human occipital hair follicles by incubating hair follicles with H3-1ßandrostenedione with or without 17a-estradiol (1nM, 100nM, 1µM) for 24 or 48 hours. In comparison to the controls (female, 444fmol/mm3 = 100%), we noticed a concentration- and time-dependent increase of aromatase activity in 17a-estradiol-incubated female hair follicles (e.g. 24h: 1nM = + 18%, 100nM = + 25%, 1µM =+ 57%; 24h: 1nM = +18%, 48h: 1nM = +25%). Our ex vivo results suggest that under the influence of 17a-estradiol an increased conversion of testosterone to 17ß-estradiol and androstendione to estrone takes place. In theory this pathway may diminish the amount of intrafollicular testosterone available for conversion to DHT, and because DHT is the major mediator of Androgenetic Alopecia, this pathway may explain the beneficial effect of 17a-estradiol on the development and progression of Androgenetic Alopecia.esults suggest that SRY is a male-specific transcriptional stimulator for 5aRII in hDPCs.

http://www.ehrs.org/conferenceabstracts ... iiyama.htm

Very interesting! It probably blocks the amount of testosterone being produced, and has no femminising effects!

Another link: http://www.aging-institute.net/vo/isoa2 ... .asp?ID=67

Claims that 17-{alpha}-estradiol has an anti-oxidant effect. Very interesting, but untried.

 

[CCS]

where can you buy it?

 

[Newbaldy84]

63% of the treated patients had a reduction in their telogen rate compared to 37% of placebo users. 89% of estrogen users maintained hair growth with no further progression of androgenetic alopecia. However, no patient had significant hair growth with the treatment. So, it would seem topical estrogen solutions may help maintain hair growth but treatment does not stimulate hair regrowth for men with androgenetic alopecia.

very interesting

 

[science-jay]

63% of the treated patients had a reduction in their telogen rate compared to 37% of placebo users. 89% of estrogen users maintained hair growth with no further progression of androgenetic alopecia. However, no patient had significant hair growth with the treatment. So, it would seem topical estrogen solutions may help maintain hair growth but treatment does not stimulate hair regrowth for men with androgenetic alopecia.

very interesting

There's clearly more evidence 17a-estr. should be helpfull as a topical anti-androgen than spironolactone, spironolactone is more expensive and not proven to work topically...

i'm ordering this stuff...15 dollar for 100ml in europe....

 

[Felk]

There's clearly more evidence 17a-estr. should be helpfull as a topical anti-androgen than spironolactone, spironolactone is more expensive and not proven to work topically...

Eh?

Of course spironolactone is proven to work topically. Many hirsutism and acne studies show this, and even one on hair loss (the italian one). The most likely reason for it's varying effectiveness is the vehicle and delivery system. In one study the liquid didn't work, whereas the cream did, etc.

I'd say as long as they don't react, mix Green Tea Extract, spironolactone, 17a-estr. etc all in a cream and use it!

 

[Guest]

but how can we determine whether or not they react?

 

[Felk]

I don't know the answer to that one, I'd ask someone like College who knows his science, or someone like Old Baldy who's been making his own treatments for a long time

If it's possible, it's the way to go, certainly.

 

[Guest]

I agree.

 

[science-jay]

I'd say as long as they don't react, mix Green Tea Extract, spironolactone, 17a-estr. etc all in a cream and use it!

that would be a hell of a topical, at least one i could believe in and be willing to try long=period...

green tea should be good and is solutable in water, but it's the most greasy...

 

[jakeb]

Any more thoughts about 17a-estradiol? I'm trying it now.

 

[liquidfirex]

ok http://www.ehrs.org/conferenceabstracts ... iiyama.htm

so it helps by increasing aromatase, ok thats all well and good, but then you have other studies saying aromatase INHIBITORS help with hair as well.... so.. wtf

 

[RagingBaldy]

yeah really. What IS the verdict on this one?

 

[liquidfirex]

http://www.ehrs.org/conferenceabstracts ... Mulzer.htm

Good enough for me! Anyone know where I can buy it?

 

[holly]

But that study showed it wasn't effective. I'm confused.

 

[jakeb]

Well, it was definitely doing *something*. I got pretty awful side effects after the 2nd week. Brain-splitting headache and nausea. Same effects happened after 1 DAY on Lipozyt-plus from Lipoxidil.com and both contain 17a-estradiol, (though the concentration in the lipozyt isn't really clear and they use nanosomes, which might account for the speed in the bad effects).

Sigh. Well, I'm still on good ol' Eucapil. That one has been side effect free from day one. Still to early to tell if it's main-effect free as well. Hope not.

 

[liquidfirex]

"Promotion of new hair growth (rated as “very effectiveâ€￾ or “effectiveâ€￾) after 6 months was observed in 64% in the finasteride-failure group, 55% in the 17-alpha-estradiol-failure group, and in 60% of all other patients. At 12 months the results were 72%, 84%, and 79%, respectively."

Those are pretty good numbers to me.[/quote]

 

[Bryan]

"Promotion of new hair growth (rated as “very effectiveâ€￾ or “effectiveâ€￾) after 6 months was observed in 64% in the finasteride-failure group, 55% in the 17-alpha-estradiol-failure group, and in 60% of all other patients. At 12 months the results were 72%, 84%, and 79%, respectively."

Those are pretty good numbers to me.

Uhh...for some reason which escapes me, you're neglecting to point out that they're talking about 5% topical minoxidil.

 

[Bryan]

http://www.ehrs.org/conferenceabstracts/2004berlin/researchabstracts/P9-120-Mulzer.htm

Good enough for me! Anyone know where I can buy it?

Rogaine? You can buy it at any drugstore.