Who Would Help Fund A Kerastem Therapy?

[lynney45]

Lol, yeah. Well they are doing the same procedure so the results should be the same. Idk how much doctors precision and skill has to do with anything?

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Maybe belrpime just didn't have enough patients? They will show me the results from the women study they conducted this January next January, in 2017. So we'll see how the results goes. Although the women alopecia is different, not sure it's relevant for us guys.

Guys if its the same procedure and same protocol i can't see how the result would be different from clinic to clinic? If it's only the injections that require any skill involved? And Belprime have stated they use a precise device to inject to a precise depth whereas the other clinics do it freehand with needles... I can't see how anyone can justify the extra few thousand euros going to the swiss clinic? I know they have more photographs but that means nothing if its the same procedure and the same protocol being followed surely?

 

[Blackber]

Guys if its the same procedure and same protocol i can't see how the result would be different from clinic to clinic? If it's only the injections that require any skill involved? And Belprime have stated they use a precise device to inject to a precise depth whereas the other clinics do it freehand with needles... I can't see how anyone can justify the extra few thousand euros going to the swiss clinic? I know they have more photographs but that means nothing if its the same procedure and the same protocol being followed surely?

I agree with you 100%

 

[hellouser]

If the results by the swiss clinic are genuine, then this could be a cure. Just have to wait it out to see if the results are permanent. Either way this big for the male pattern baldness and fpb community.

It is NOT a cure.

 

[Blackber]

It is NOT a cure.

Lol

I would have to agree with Hell

All it's going to do is buy you some time if it even works for you.

It's worth it for certain hair loss sufferers.

 

[JustAnotherNoob]

Hey guys, I found this picture online

http://ikumouclear.com/agatiryohou/kerastem

Also, this infographic shows that they're approved for use in all european countries that are CE marked and Japan
http://kerastem.com/product-pipeline/

I'm gonna schedule mine for a few months from now at BelPrime.

I also want to reiterate the statistical evidence behind Kerastem. Also, we should try to get in touch with some of these doctors to see if we can gather even more info.

CHICAGO, September 10, 2015 /PRNewswire/– Kerastem, a worldwide leader in stem cell-based approaches to hair growth, announced today that clinical data utilizing the Kerastem Therapy for the treatment of female and male patterned baldness (genetic alopecia) was presented by Dr. David Perez-Meza (Malaga, Spain) at the 2015 ISHRS meeting. The data was based on an initial clinical series from the United Kingdom. The authors (Drs. Perez-Meza, Ziering, Sforza, Ball, Krishna and Daniels) performed a single scalp injection of Kerastem’s regenerative cell enriched adipose tissue in 9 healthy hair loss patients, and a total of 6 patients were followed for a period of six months using global photography and macrophotography with the Handyscope and Trichoscale Pro software used to quantify hair growth. The authors reported a 100% patient response rate to the Kerastem Therapy at 6-months and in patients with early stage hair loss, the percentage increase in hair count/density was a mean difference of 17% (p = 0.02). In males with early grade loss, an average 29% increase (p=0.057) in hair count/hair density with a mean difference of 40 hairs per square centimeter was observed.

 

[Blackber]

Hey guys, I found this picture online

http://ikumouclear.com/agatiryohou/kerastem

Also, this infographic shows that they're approved for use in all european countries that are CE marked and Japan
http://kerastem.com/product-pipeline/

I'm gonna schedule mine for a few months from now at BelPrime.

I also want to reiterate the statistical evidence behind Kerastem. Also, we should try to get in touch with some of these doctors to see if we can gather even more info.

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Thanks for posting this JustAnotherNoob. Like you said the more information we have the better, I think this thread has done a very good job of putting a lot of Kerastem related information in one spot.

The after photo is slightly darker but it looks like the edges of the crown were restored.

I think that's a pretty significant difference personally, this patient seems a little older as well. I'm feeling better and better about Kerastem as a stopgap treatment until something better comes out.

 

[Bad_Wolve]

very good job noob, i really appreciat your efforts. i would immediately do it now in belprime, but i doubt that she has enough experience in doing this procedure.

 

[hellouser]

Can anyone find photos in larger size?

I found the following links:

http://www.biyougeka.com/contents/hair/hair_adrc/?xadid=adrc-afiat
http://ameblo.jp/kamigahaetekuru/entry-12113806096.html
http://ikumouclear.com/agatiryohou/kerastem

 

[Blackber]

Can anyone find photos in larger size?

I found the following links:

http://www.biyougeka.com/contents/hair/hair_adrc/?xadid=adrc-afiat
http://ameblo.jp/kamigahaetekuru/entry-12113806096.html
http://ikumouclear.com/agatiryohou/kerastem

Hey Hell,

I ran a Google image search and the biggest image I found is the one we already have 500 x 312

 

[Bad_Wolve]

Good work guys!

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Well actually you are right, it looks really good, he was slick bald. Man I need this too!

i started this thread not to gain more information about kerastem, i started it because i wanted that the community funds somebody in order to proof the efficency of kerastem. what are we waiting for? vince is living next door to belprime, he is also a very good candidate due to his early hair loss. we need to get things started now. i am in for vince!

 

[JustAnotherNoob]

I'm reposting something I wrote in the other thread here.

I think its about 4,500 euro... not sure. And I dont know if it's permanent or not.

4500 Euros covers the surgery/transportation/hotel at BelPrime Clinic. Japan charges like 1.5m Yen (which is like 14000USD). Geneva charges like 8500EUR i believe.

I think if it's not permanent it will last a hell of a long time. The doctors mentioned that the most important thing about this procedure is the fat injection, not the stem cells. The stem cells help rejuvinate, but the fat injection is basically the habitable zone for our follicles. It's like soil to trees. They say that we have much more fat before we start losing our hair and over time that fat layer starts dissapearing and that is why our follicles start dying, also explains why the top of the scalp gets really tight. From a non-scientist perspective, the science makes a ton of sense to me. Think about it, we are restoring the habitable area for our hair follicles to survive. When I did the skype consultation, they had a lot of graphics explaining this too and showing a live picture of someones scalp fat and how it has gotten thinner.

Hell, even Folligen was writing about how their products help restore the subcutaneous fat in the scalp to revive follicles, although, folligen was a topical and did not do anything -- they had the same idea behind the mechanism a long time ago..

 

[Greybeer]

Good work guys!

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Well actually you are right, it looks really good, he was slick bald. Man I need this too!

Hahathought you were unconvinced man? I think this is a viable option for us Norwood 2s, like to combine that with a a phenomenal nutrient dense diet, and other topicals/shampoos!

I'll throw in as well for Vince!

 

[hellouser]

i started this thread not to gain more information about kerastem, i started it because i wanted that the community funds somebody in order to proof the efficency of kerastem. what are we waiting for? vince is living next door to belprime, he is also a very good candidate due to his early hair loss. we need to get things started now. i am in for vince!

I'd go but my only concern is how it'd affect future treatments.... hmmmm.....

 

[Blackber]

I'd go but my only concern is how it'd affect future treatments.... hmmmm.....

I don't think the fat injections would hurt any future treatments.

It'd be the stem cell injections and if everyone was concerned with them leaving the scalp too quickly (hence why they use the fat to hold them there) then I'd suspect the treatment isn't permanent and wouldn't affect future treatments.

This is obviously just conjecture though.

 

[hellouser]

I don't think the fat injections would hurt any future treatments.

It'd be the stem cell injections and if everyone was concerned with them leaving the scalp too quickly (hence why they use the fat to hold them there) then I'd suspect the treatment isn't permanent and wouldn't affect future treatments.

This is obviously just conjecture though.

I'd need some kind of assurance... no guarantees but something that would 'sway' me in one direction or the other. Just need some solid input from the Kerastem team itself and maybe some other experts, say, Dr. Gail Naughton or Dr. Lauster's team. Gotta be honest, I don't wanna screw up anywhere that bottle necks me in the future.

 

[Blackber]

I'd need some kind of assurance... no guarantees but something that would 'sway' me in one direction or the other. Just need some solid input from the Kerastem team itself and maybe some other experts, say, Dr. Gail Naughton or Dr. Lauster's team. Gotta be honest, I don't wanna screw up anywhere that bottle necks me in the future.

I totally agree.

Would you be willing to reach out to any of those people? I don't want to throw more on your plate but you've spoken with them before and have great knowledge about this stuff.

I think Kerastem would only affect Histogen and Replicel. If some future treatment comes out that is based on growing follicles in a lab then transplanting it obviously wouldn't affect that.

 

[JustAnotherNoob]

I'd need some kind of assurance... no guarantees but something that would 'sway' me in one direction or the other. Just need some solid input from the Kerastem team itself and maybe some other experts, say, Dr. Gail Naughton or Dr. Lauster's team. Gotta be honest, I don't wanna screw up anywhere that bottle necks me in the future.

I asked this specific question to the lead researcher Dr. Kuka over the phone and when I had the skype consultation with Dr.Andjelkov -- they said this will have no effect on any current or future treatments, as this is just restoring fat in the subcutaneous layer (where there used to be more fat before we were balding). It does not affect the dermis. So in a sense, it will just be reverting the physical environment back to what it was before hair-loss, not modifying it to something unnatural. You can still get a hair transplant right after this, still use finasteride, minoxidil, etc.

I still want you to set up a skype consultation with them -- you're the technical guy, you'd be able to translate everything better to us. Although, I think I have enough evidence to confirm an appointment with them. I'm planning a trip with a friend to Europe since i'm already going to be spending $1000 to fly out there, then at the tail-end of my trip I can stop by the clinic and have the treatment done.

 

[Blackber]

I asked this specific question to the lead researcher Dr. Kuka over the phone and when I had the skype consultation with Dr.Andjelkov -- they said this will have no effect on any current or future treatments, as this is just restoring fat in the subcutaneous layer (where there used to be more fat before we were balding). It does not affect the dermis. So in a sense, it will just be reverting the physical environment back to what it was before hair-loss, not modifying it to something unnatural. You can still get a hair transplant right after this, still use finasteride, minoxidil, etc.

Pretty sure Hell is referring to future cell based treatments.

 

[lynney45]

I'd need some kind of assurance... no guarantees but something that would 'sway' me in one direction or the other. Just need some solid input from the Kerastem team itself and maybe some other experts, say, Dr. Gail Naughton or Dr. Lauster's team. Gotta be honest, I don't wanna screw up anywhere that bottle necks me in the future.

Response from Kerastem:

"Dear *******,

Thank you for the note.


As I am not an expert with Histogen and Replicel technologies, I am not in a position to answer about any potential interaction.


I'm sorry I am not able to address your question and thank you again for your interest in Kerastem.


Kind Regards,


Eric Daniels, MD
Kerastem"

Response from BelPrime:

"Dear *******,
As we are aware and considering our experience with it, Kerastem protocol shouldn't have any negative impact on any other potential treatments in the future. It uses patient's own regenerativne potential without harming existing hair foliculles.
As these treatments are still in development, we don’t have any experience with them, so this is just scientific explanation.

Kind regards,

Prof Katarina Andjelkov, MD PhD"

 

[hairtoday_gonetomorrow]

Not sure if I have missed this somewhere, but how much help would this be with maintenance? Any regrowth is obviously awesome, but does it slow down the loss of what hair you currently have?