Who Would Help Fund A Kerastem Therapy?

[Aleksandar]

There must have been people that had this treatment and can share their progress or lack thereof??

If I knew this would work I would make and appointment tomorrow, even at a price of 13k.

 

[Swoop]

Swoop, I haven't read through all these posts, but have you expressed your opinion on this? Would be interesting to hear? The bottom line question being - do you think this treatment is potentially beneficial enough that you would try it yourself?

Same as PRP and Histogen for me buckthorn.

 

[buckthorn]

Same as PRP and Histogen for me buckthorn.

interesting you group PRP, Kerastem and Histogen as basically the same thing... please explain? or do you just think the results will be similar? I personally think PRP is complete jargon. Hyped and perpetuated by greedy hair transplant doctors.

 

[Swoop]

interesting you group PRP, Kerastem and Histogen as basically the same thing... please explain? or do you just think the results will be similar? I personally think PRP is complete jargon. Hyped and perpetuated by greedy hair transplant doctors.

Results pretty much similar buckthorn. One might be a little better than the other, that's all.

Yeah I agree with you, it is sh*t but PRP is backed by studies man . See here for instance;

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2014/760709/

Ken Washenik is the principal investigator of Kerastem btw. He will do everything for the $$$. Even if that means being the medical director of Bosley (hair mill, responsible for butchering many people as you know personally) Promises left and right with aderans but got nowhere.. Could barely admit failure with aderans.

Histogen, pretty much a laughable company. Started back in what 2007? 10 years, later she got sh*t besides launching her cosmetic growth factor line. She got ridiculed heavily back in 2012 at a conference by many people when she finished her presentation. People were outwards rude to her and laughed in her face. She never changed presenting her results. Has Ziering as her principal investigator. The guy runs a hair mill. Look man; http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...alding-men-transformed-having-heads-hair.html. Misleading people to the fullest. Google furthermore "Ziering medical lawsuit." Again promises left and right too from the mouth of Histogen.

Get the picture?

Ken Washenik seeing the $$$;

 

[hilbert]

Results pretty much similar buckthorn. One might be a little better than the other, that's all.

Yeah I agree with you, it is sh*t but PRP is backed by studies man . See here for instance;

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2014/760709/

Ken Washenik is the principal investigator of Kerastem btw. He will do everything for the $$$. Even if that means being the medical director of Bosley (hair mill, responsible for butchering many people as you know personally) Promises left and right with aderans but got nowhere.. Could barely admit failure with aderans.

Histogen, pretty much a laughable company. Started back in what 2007? 10 years, later she got sh*t besides launching her cosmetic growth factor line. She got ridiculed heavily back in 2012 at a conference by many people when she finished her presentation. People were outwards rude to her and laughed in her face. She never changed presenting her results. Has Ziering as her principal investigator. The guy runs a hair mill. Look man; http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...alding-men-transformed-having-heads-hair.html. Misleading people to the fullest. Google furthermore "Ziering medical lawsuit." Again promises left and right too from the mouth of Histogen.

Get the picture?

Ken Washenik seeing the $$$;

i'm trying not to get biased by the track record of the people involved, and look at the theory behind, and at the preliminary results. to that respect, kerastem and histogen are definitely in my radar so far.

 

[Bad_Wolve]

Results pretty much similar buckthorn. One might be a little better than the other, that's all.

Yeah I agree with you, it is sh*t but PRP is backed by studies man . See here for instance;

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2014/760709/

Ken Washenik is the principal investigator of Kerastem btw. He will do everything for the $$$. Even if that means being the medical director of Bosley (hair mill, responsible for butchering many people as you know personally) Promises left and right with aderans but got nowhere.. Could barely admit failure with aderans.

Histogen, pretty much a laughable company. Started back in what 2007? 10 years, later she got sh*t besides launching her cosmetic growth factor line. She got ridiculed heavily back in 2012 at a conference by many people when she finished her presentation. People were outwards rude to her and laughed in her face. She never changed presenting her results. Has Ziering as her principal investigator. The guy runs a hair mill. Look man; http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...alding-men-transformed-having-heads-hair.html. Misleading people to the fullest. Google furthermore "Ziering medical lawsuit." Again promises left and right too from the mouth of Histogen.

Get the picture?

Ken Washenik seeing the $$$;

swoop you were often right and maybe also in the kerastem case. but where is the problem? they showed good results in phase 1 and it will not hurt if everybody spends 50 bucks here for sending someone to switzerland.

 

[Swoop]

swoop you were often right and maybe also in the kerastem case. but where is the problem? they showed good results in phase 1 and it will not hurt if everybody spends 50 bucks here for sending someone to switzerland.

Nothing wrong with that mate. Just saying that you shouldn't set your expectations high. And it's a good idea to crowdfund someone if people want to see what it is capable of indeed. I'll donate also .

 

[lynney45]

I got this back from this swiss clinic today:

"Dear *****,

Thank you for your message.
The liposuction incisions are only 5-7mm long. They are placed very discretely, hidden easily by bathing trunks and are basically invisible.
We charge 150CHF for a consultation with Dr Schlaudraff and we can organize a consultation the day before surgery.

Don’t hesitate to contact me in case you would like to have more information or schedule an appointment with the doctor.

Best regards,


Anette Salsgard
Office Manager - Concept-Clinic"

- - - Updated - - -

I have had another reply from Swiss clinic:

"Dear .....,

Thank you for your message.

In our patients, the treatment was effective in all areas. Again it is also important to know that we have observed that the results are usually best in patients with a shorter history of alopecia - since the hair follicles have been dormant for a shorter period of time. This is obviously also applicable for certain areas with longer history of hair loss.

The fat injections do not cause any lumpiness and they do not increase the scalp size / thickness.

The surgery is usually done as an outpatient procedure and our patients spend the night at a hotel. We are happy to recommend hotels if you wish.
For payment of the consultation and surgery, we accept either bank transfers or cash (no credit cards).
Please note that we can only ensure OR availability and block a surgery date for you after we have received a 30% deposit. The remaining amount needs to be paid in full before surgery.
Due to high patient demand the current waiting time is 8-10 weeks.

Don’t hesitate to contact me in case you would like to have more information or schedule an appointment with the doctor.

Best regards,


Anette Salsgard
Office Manager - Concept-Clinic"

 

[newplayer]

If they have such a high demand, this should be successful (probably word of mouth marketing got them new clients), and they must have a bunch of before/after photos,
I understand they don't want to email them around (sort of), but somebody could go there and check them out.

ps
news about the Belgrade clinic? Are they doing the correct procedure?

 

[Aleksandar]

I got this back from this swiss clinic today:

"Dear *****,

Thank you for your message.
The liposuction incisions are only 5-7mm long. They are placed very discretely, hidden easily by bathing trunks and are basically invisible.
We charge 150CHF for a consultation with Dr Schlaudraff and we can organize a consultation the day before surgery.

Don’t hesitate to contact me in case you would like to have more information or schedule an appointment with the doctor.

Best regards,


Anette Salsgard
Office Manager - Concept-Clinic"

- - - Updated - - -

I have had another reply from Swiss clinic:

"Dear .....,

Thank you for your message.

In our patients, the treatment was effective in all areas. Again it is also important to know that we have observed that the results are usually best in patients with a shorter history of alopecia - since the hair follicles have been dormant for a shorter period of time. This is obviously also applicable for certain areas with longer history of hair loss.

The fat injections do not cause any lumpiness and they do not increase the scalp size / thickness.

The surgery is usually done as an outpatient procedure and our patients spend the night at a hotel. We are happy to recommend hotels if you wish.
For payment of the consultation and surgery, we accept either bank transfers or cash (no credit cards).
Please note that we can only ensure OR availability and block a surgery date for you after we have received a 30% deposit. The remaining amount needs to be paid in full before surgery.
Due to high patient demand the current waiting time is 8-10 weeks.

Don’t hesitate to contact me in case you would like to have more information or schedule an appointment with the doctor.

Best regards,


Anette Salsgard
Office Manager - Concept-Clinic"

Thanks! But no lumpiness?? Then where does the fat go?

Man, how fantastic would it be if this works!!! Even an improvement of 30% would be great.

Can't wait hearing the experiences of people that had this procedure.

 

[lynney45]

If they have such a high demand, this should be successful (probably word of mouth marketing got them new clients), and they must have a bunch of before/after photos,
I understand they don't want to email them around (sort of), but somebody could go there and check them out.

ps
news about the Belgrade clinic? Are they doing the correct procedure?

i would take the 'high demand' statement with a pinch of salt, as they are probably doing other procedures in conjunction i.e. regular lipo which is resulting in a long waiting list... also with regards to the before and after photos, i am extemely skeptical given the nature of this industry being a shambles... there is nothing to say that the before and after photos aren't hair trainsplant before and after pics taken from hair transplant network for example... i would prefer to hear real reports and reviews on the forums of people that have had the procedure before making a judgement...

- - - Updated - - -

news about the Belgrade clinic? Are they doing the correct procedure?

How are we going to determine whether the Belgrade clinic is legitimately doing the Kerastem procedure? I know somebody suggested doing a Q&A with Dr Schlaudraff but i really can't see him commenting on this as it would be driving business away from him if it were true as the procedure is cheaper in Belgrade. Therefore he would be shooting himself in the foot by divulging such details.

How can we find out? Is it worth contacting Kerastem directly in the states and asking them? But then again the Belgrade clinic is not listed on their website as being a partner so i can't see Kerastem confirming this either...

I would prefer not to take the Belgrade clinic on their word because they might not be doing something that is fundamental to the Kerastem protocol...

Does anyone have any ideas on how we can find out about this Belgrade clinics legitimacy?

 

[JustAnotherNoob]

i would take the 'high demand' statement with a pinch of salt, as they are probably doing other procedures in conjunction i.e. regular lipo which is resulting in a long waiting list... also with regards to the before and after photos, i am extemely skeptical given the nature of this industry being a shambles... there is nothing to say that the before and after photos aren't hair trainsplant before and after pics taken from hair transplant network for example... i would prefer to hear real reports and reviews on the forums of people that have had the procedure before making a judgement...

- - - Updated - - -



How are we going to determine whether the Belgrade clinic is legitimately doing the Kerastem procedure? I know somebody suggested doing a Q&A with Dr Schlaudraff but i really can't see him commenting on this as it would be driving business away from him if it were true as the procedure is cheaper in Belgrade. Therefore he would be shooting himself in the foot by divulging such details.

How can we find out? Is it worth contacting Kerastem directly in the states and asking them? But then again the Belgrade clinic is not listed on their website as being a partner so i can't see Kerastem confirming this either...

I would prefer not to take the Belgrade clinic on their word because they might not be doing something that is fundamental to the Kerastem protocol...

Does anyone have any ideas on how we can find out about this Belgrade clinics legitimacy?

Contact Dr Gorana Kuka on the STYLE Clinical Trials in America (Kerastem). She is the one who says they perform the procedure in belgrade.

 

[newplayer]

I agree with lynney for the most part.

I found her resume online:

Dr Gorana Kuka is a plastic surgeon from Belgrade, Serbia where she received training under the country's most respected specialists.
She has been in private practice at "Colić Hospital" since the very beginning of her career throughout years of her residency so she received extensive training in cosmetic surgery.
Dr. Kuka is highly interested in aesthetic surgery of the face, regenerative surgery with adipose derived stem cells (fat grafting) and FUE hair and eyebrow restoration, as well as medical treatments for hair loss. Dr. Kuka was amongst the first doctors who began using Neograft device for FUE hair restoration method and to date, she developed her own surgical technique for FUE as well as her own FUE device. Dr. Gorana Kuka is one of very few doctors who are conducting the first and only FDA approved study to treat androgenic alopecia with regenerative (stem) cells. She is the Head of Department of Research at Foundation for Hair Restoration in Abilene. Because of her special interest to help women suffering from hair loss, she founded Women's Center for Hair Loss with her colleague Dr. Epstein. Her expertise is to diagnose and to successfully treat these patients.
She is the author of a website www.haircenter.rs
With Dr. Jeffrey Epstein she runs hair restoration course for doctors and assistants that takes place in Abilene.
She is board certified by Serbian Medical Society.
Dr. Gorana Kuka is a member of ISHRS (International Society for Hair Restoration Surgery), ISPRES (International Society of Plastic Regenerative Surgery) and Women for women-organization that aims to supply help by female surgeons to patients. She is a member of American Academy of Facial Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery (AAFPRS).
She likes tennis.

On that web address, I found this too:
Dr. Gorana Kuka can be contacted via e-mail [email protected] and this is the best way for you to obtain almost a complete evaluation of your hair loss and get answers to all of your questions. Also, it is possible to schedule a Skype consultation. A complete evaluation is done during an actual consultation at the clinic. Dr. Kuka coordinates timing of consultations, treatments and procedures with her own schedule since she works at three different locations and your plans.

 

[lynney45]

Guys i just had this reply from BelPrime clinic below... Do you guys think it would be worth the risk going with this clinic as opposed to the Swiss clinic? As it's almost half the cost and includes transfers, and accommodation....what are you opinions?

Dear Sir/Madam,



Thank You for Your interest in our clinic.


"Yes, we do perform exactly the same procedure for hair loss as Kerastem with the same equipment and devices.
We are using Cytori Celution 800/CRS device (Produced by Cytori Inc., San Diego, USA) and Puregraft system for tissue washing.
It is a treatment with ADRCs - Adipose Derived Regenerative Stem Cells and we have been performing this procedure for more than 2 years, mostly in mens alopecia.
For this treatment we need to perform liposuction to get small amount of fat tissue and the scar for this is barely visible, 3-6mm long.
Some bruises and slight pain can appear in the area where liposuction has been done but they heal in a few days time and one pain killer is usually
enough to stop it. After getting the ADRCs, we inject cells with washed fat tissue using blunt cannula under the skin. This causes no pain nor swelling after the procedure.


Patient needs to be in Belgrade for at least 3 days for the procedure and consultations can be done via Skype or e-mail.


We can not provide You with ‘’before and after ‘’ photos as we are not authorised to do that because of patient privacy policy.


You can contact us when decide to do the procedure and we will schedule it in a few weeks time or when convenient.


The price for this treatment is 4,500 euros and can be paid on the exact date of the procedure.


Dr Gorana Kuka performs this procedure in the USA but at the moment we do not have the information when and will she be doing that in Serbia.




Feel free to contact us for all further questions.






Kind Regards,


BelPrime Clinic Team"

 

[Bad_Wolve]

Guys i just had this reply from BelPrime clinic below... Do you guys think it would be worth the risk going with this clinic as opposed to the Swiss clinic? As it's almost half the cost and includes transfers, and accommodation....what are you opinions?

Dear Sir/Madam,



Thank You for Your interest in our clinic.


"Yes, we do perform exactly the same procedure for hair loss as Kerastem with the same equipment and devices.
We are using Cytori Celution 800/CRS device (Produced by Cytori Inc., San Diego, USA) and Puregraft system for tissue washing.
It is a treatment with ADRCs - Adipose Derived Regenerative Stem Cells and we have been performing this procedure for more than 2 years, mostly in mens alopecia.
For this treatment we need to perform liposuction to get small amount of fat tissue and the scar for this is barely visible, 3-6mm long.
Some bruises and slight pain can appear in the area where liposuction has been done but they heal in a few days time and one pain killer is usually
enough to stop it. After getting the ADRCs, we inject cells with washed fat tissue using blunt cannula under the skin. This causes no pain nor swelling after the procedure.


Patient needs to be in Belgrade for at least 3 days for the procedure and consultations can be done via Skype or e-mail.


We can not provide You with ‘’before and after ‘’ photos as we are not authorised to do that because of patient privacy policy.


You can contact us when decide to do the procedure and we will schedule it in a few weeks time or when convenient.


The price for this treatment is 4,500 euros and can be paid on the exact date of the procedure.


Dr Gorana Kuka performs this procedure in the USA but at the moment we do not have the information when and will she be doing that in Serbia.




Feel free to contact us for all further questions.






Kind Regards,


BelPrime Clinic Team"

sounds nice, but the fact that they are no official kerastem partners makes it fishy.

 

[newplayer]

....

I'm prepared to do it and document, if we can get the "crowdfunding campaign" started here on forum and gather the funds.
I'm NW3 diffuse - perfect for this, I believe.

 

[lynney45]

sounds nice, but the fact that they are no official kerastem partners makes it fishy.

I have had another response from BelPrime today... they are infact claiming to be licensed by Kerastem... so i guess the next step is to verify this with Kerastem themselves by contacting Kerastem in the states... If this is in fact the case and is confirmed by Kerastem then it makes no sense whatsoever to use the Swiss clinic as it incurs extra cost... Also another takeaway from their message was that they are claiming a 90% success rate... this isn't consistent with what the Swiss clinic told Christopher1 on hairsite, they said its more like a 70% success rate, so these quoted figures from BelPrime seem a little fishy...

I am going to arrange a Skype consultation with them next week and probe them some more... then get in contact with Kerastem in the states to verify they are licensed by them to do the treatment....

Anyway here is their reply to my follow up questions:

"Hello ******,

Thank You for Your interest.


The procedure costs 4,500 euros and, yes, includes airport transfers and accommodation, one night in the surgery and 2 nights in provided accommodation.
Airport is 20km away from the surgery.
Prof Katarina Andjelkov, MD PhD, Plastic, reconstructive and aesthetic surgery specialist. You can see the photos before and after in person.
We are licensed by Kerastem for this procedure and success rate is 90%.
The procedure was explained in the last e-mail also the devices and equipment that we are using.
Skype consultation can be booked but You will be informed when is possible during next week.







Kind regards,


Bel Prime Clinic Team"

 

[Kenkyuusha]

Thanks for the update. I am also very interested in this clinic as it is the most affordable one.
I would find it hard to commit to the procedure without being able to see any pictures beforehand or speaking to some of their patients though..

 

[Mr White]

So many guys from Spain on this forum and they still haven't given us any clear info on the Madrid clinic! Is it available or not? If so, does it work or not? Two simple questions.

 

[Bad_Wolve]

I have had another response from BelPrime today... they are infact claiming to be licensed by Kerastem... so i guess the next step is to verify this with Kerastem themselves by contacting Kerastem in the states... If this is in fact the case and is confirmed by Kerastem then it makes no sense whatsoever to use the Swiss clinic as it incurs extra cost... Also another takeaway from their message was that they are claiming a 90% success rate... this isn't consistent with what the Swiss clinic told Christopher1 on hairsite, they said its more like a 70% success rate, so these quoted figures from BelPrime seem a little fishy...

I am going to arrange a Skype consultation with them next week and probe them some more... then get in contact with Kerastem in the states to verify they are licensed by them to do the treatment....

Anyway here is their reply to my follow up questions:

"Hello ******,

Thank You for Your interest.


The procedure costs 4,500 euros and, yes, includes airport transfers and accommodation, one night in the surgery and 2 nights in provided accommodation.
Airport is 20km away from the surgery.
Prof Katarina Andjelkov, MD PhD, Plastic, reconstructive and aesthetic surgery specialist. You can see the photos before and after in person.
We are licensed by Kerastem for this procedure and success rate is 90%.
The procedure was explained in the last e-mail also the devices and equipment that we are using.
Skype consultation can be booked but You will be informed when is possible during next week.







Kind regards,


Bel Prime Clinic Team"

good work bro. could you ask them, why they dont publish before/after pics. i don´t get that. the only thing i believe why someone is avoiding this, is because it doesn´t work.