Why is there not a REAL solution to male pattern baldness yet?

[bigentries]

It's possible to "clone" or "make" a sheep, human, and other complicated living organisms with identical DNA from a "donor." Today. Right now.

So, why can't we just take a hair from the back of someones head (yep, just a simple hair...follicle included)...replicate it enough times for what someone needs, and then put those replicated hairs on top of someone's head? Anyone could go in and get Elvis hair if they really wanted it. And it would stay there forever. It would be a lot like today's hair transplants...except you wouldn't need to worry about running out of donor hair. And it seems like it would be even simpler than extracting hairs from a donor area.

That would be a real permanent solution to the problem. Instead of trying to manipulate hormones with drugs, etc. Check this out...it's 6 mins long, but really amazing...and these are more complicated organs...I'm just talking a hair:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQnJAMsV1g8

No human has ever been cloned.
I don't know why people keep bringing the damn sheep

You might want to read how it was created

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_transfer

Yes, a very easy form to clone an organism. It worked in some species, but it has utterly failed in the majority of mammals.
That's why there has been so little advancement in the cloning since Dolly

We fail to create an entire mammal using their own ovum and people seriously expect that we can create only organs from god-knows where right now?

There is no conspiracy, we still don't have the knowledge to eliminate baldness. It will come, but don't expect anything radical anytime soon

 

[s.a.f]

A "cure" would be disastrous for the hair loss commercial industry (pharmas, transplant specialists, etc). These companies, I gather, would rather leave things be, as they are now.

It is only when the cure becomes a bigger priority than the profits, will we ever see a real difference.

Someone always pulls this one out :shakehead: Did VHS companies hold back the DVD, did dentists hold back toothpaste?
Any cure would have alot more takers than randon snake oils and things that dont work.
Most Hairloss products brought today are by people who will try them out of desperation then give up after 6months when they fail to see the desired results (but luckily for them theres a constant supply of new baldies always coming along). Any company that could find a fullproof cure could keep their customers paying up their entire adult lives.

 

[freakout]

It's possible to "clone" or "make" a sheep, human, and other complicated living organisms with identical DNA from a "donor." Today. Right now.

Dolly the sheep was a lucky strike. It's considered a failure because it cannot be replicated viably using the same process. Also, Dolly died of at a young age of cancer if I'm not mistaken.

So, why can't we just take a hair from the back of someones head (yep, just a simple hair...follicle included)...replicate it enough times for what someone needs, and then put those replicated hairs on top of someone's head?

We don't have to take it fomr somebody else's head. We can clone our own from our own hair follicle cells. That's being done already with some level of success on a laboratory or petri dish level and still at the experimental stage. It'll probably take many years to find out if it will work on a mass scale on human trials and to develop a process and viable and affordable system of application if it works on a mass scale.

If it does, expect tens of thousands of dollars if not a few hundred thousands.

 

[freakout]

We know the "cause" for male pattern baldness: http://www.expert-reviews.com/doi/full/10.1586/edm.11.7

• The hair follicle cycle is controlled by stem cells, which are the hair bulge stem cell and hair germ (HG).
• In Androgenetic Alopecia patients, stem cell predecessors were maintained, but active HG cells were dramatically depleted.
• The mechanism of follicular miniaturization in Androgenetic Alopecia may be due to a decreased number of active HG cells.
• Male Androgenetic Alopecia is caused by hair follicle stem cell inactivation.[/b][/i]

We just don't know, for sure, the series of events and factors that lead to the defect in progenitor cell formation.

This is where the many theories (Androgenetic Alopecia "direct effect", Contact Inhibition, Supplementation, Lifestyle, Epigenetics....etc.) come into play. But we do know the "cause"....or in other words....the difference between balding and non-balding scalp hair follicle in men with male pattern baldness.

Under cause and effect - are the assertions on this study really THE cause?

WHen we begin to ask the question WHY, virtually every assertion that's claimed to be the CAUSE tend to become the EFFECT.

For example: "In Androgenetic Alopecia patients, stem cell predecessors were maintained, but active HG cells were dramatically depleted'

Did that 'CAUSE' baldness? Asking the WHY to why it was depleted, makes it the EFFECT rather than the CAUSE.

The answer could be survival strategy? Ask the WHY again.

The answer could be lack of nutrition? Ask the WHY again.

That can probably be answered with 'lack of blood supply?

Again, ask the WHY and "lack of blood supply" becomes the EFFECT of a CAUSE. Then everything become a long chain of CAUSE and EFFECT. At any point in this long chain you can choose which ones to influence to address male pattern baldness.

Only the Big Bang (creation of the universe) is exempted from the question of WHY from a scientific perspective.

Just a comment for one of the seriious researchers of the forum

 

[abcdefg]

Do people really think an male pattern baldness cure could exist now and some big conspiracy is out to stop it? Its just a complicated condition and is considered a cosmetic condition so its rightfully not on the level of cancer. If some company had a cure believe me they would throw it out there and all the hair transplant places would go out of business that is capitalism. Its like saying any big company can stop a huge invention or leap forward by another company it generally does not happen and the losing companies have to adapt and innovate to keep pace.

 

[Mojo Risin]

Face the facts, it will never be cured.

 

[abcdefg]

Doubters gonna doubt. Two kinds of people optimists and pessimists. male pattern baldness being cured is only a matter of time and I think stem cells will eventually lead us to a cure but nothing in science is 100 percent until its all finished.
Also you have to define what a real solution to male pattern baldness is? I mean is that going from completely bald to a teenage hair line or just keeping what you have forever? I think preventing male pattern baldness forever will be possible in our life time just by better androgen inhibitors.

 

[Mojo Risin]

It will be cured within my life time, but when I'll be 50, my life will already be screwed, so yeah.

 

[anxious1]

thats complete BS!

with that kind of attitude, it would be screwed no matter wat. because if u didnt get baldness, youd get something else, and u would hav the same manner of dealing with it.

anyway when ur 50, alot of ur friends and family will have caught up to u with balding.

I want a cure as much as than anyone, but its not here yet so im getting on with my life. U should do the same. And if u really feel so strongly about it, then study medical science and u look for the cure.

I know its a hard thing to come to terms with when ur young, We all here have been thru it, and it gets easier. Just dont let it rule ur life, because b4 u know it youll be old, bitter and dealing with much bigger health related problems.

this is the place to vent ur emotions dont get me wrong, but this is the best advice i can give. I wasted a decade of my life on this crap, and i regret it, so i feel its my duty to give this sort of response.

Sorry to be blunt, but thats the reality of it.

 

[freakout]

Do people really think an male pattern baldness cure could exist now and some big conspiracy is out to stop it? Its just a complicated condition and is considered a cosmetic condition so its rightfully not on the level of cancer.

Some people insist it's merely a cosmetic condition or 'secondary male characteristics' or purely 'genetic'.
Many researchers believe something is wrong with your system for obvious reasons.
Some researchers believe some environmental conditions contributes to it.

This is one way to view it: Diabetis T2 was thought to be genetic because it affects relatives and family members. This thinking can be supported by the fact that whole sets of families who eat the same food, only a few families are affected.

So the argument goes, "Hey, we eat the same food, why am I not affected. Hence, some people can easily argue that it's simply 'genetic'.

Yet largely scale epidemiological studies involving thousands have already shown that diet does indeed play the larger role than genetics. Just eat the right stuff and you won't have to worry about diabetis T2.

No large scale studies show male pattern baldness is caused by diet. But it goes to show that, although small scale studies are sometimes reliable particularly controlled cases or double blinded, only large scale epidemiological studies can confirm claims.

 

[freakout]

Do people really think an male pattern baldness cure could exist now and some big conspiracy is out to stop it? ... If some company had a cure believe me they would throw it out there and all the hair transplant places would go out of business that is capitalism. Its like saying any big company can stop a huge invention or leap forward by another company it generally does not happen and the losing companies have to adapt and innovate to keep pace.

What you probably mean is: if a company knew THE cause, would they tell you? Of course NOT specially if THE cause can be prevented without a need for medicine.

For example, they aren't going to tell you that baldness is a consequence/result of a neurophysiological condition. Or that it's a male pattern baldness is caused by an inheritable neurophysiogical phenotypic adaptation. Was that something new to your ears?

Androgens and minoxidil influence this neurophysiological condition. I think Rogaine knows but their not saying because it doesn't need medicines to counter it. But why would they tell you that there are other, albeit difficult, non-pharmacological ways to counter the condition if they're not going to profit from it? THey know people prefer life the easy way and to just pop a pill.

If they knew the cause, they would find a treatment to remedy it but will NOT tell you how to prevent it or 'cure' - that's the real face of capitalism. Coming up with a remedy makes you dependent on the treatment for life and turn you into a cash cow.

I can cite a few examples that scheming industry size pharmaceutical companies do indeed do it. I can also say that big government including lawmakers are being influenced by them to "medificate" society - meaning make people dependent on medicines.

There are people who keep pushing the *wild* theory that balding hair is 'sensitive to DHT' arguing that it's a fact but there are studies which can contradict that. To me, these guys are suspect to be working for a Merck commisionned outfit.

 

[anxious1]

There are people who keep pushing the *wild* theory that balding hair is 'sensitive to DHT' arguing that it's a fact but there are studies which can contradict that. To me, these guys are suspect to be working for a Merck commisionned outfit.

Merck must have a hell of a lot of employees then lol


i AM open to new ideas, we certainly havent mastered the mechanism yet, but i dont subscribe to conspiracy theories. On the other hand i definately do not trust big pharma either.

the biggest problem, is big pharma r the only ones with the money to do the proper studies that satisfy the fda and medical regulations etc. Or at least the only ones prepared to spend it. Certainly their end goal is to make the most money, but at the same time, who else can we depend on for the clinical proof.

 

[abcdefg]

There are people who keep pushing the *wild* theory that balding hair is 'sensitive to DHT' arguing that it's a fact but there are studies which can contradict that. To me, these guys are suspect to be working for a Merck commisionned outfit.

Merck must have a hell of a lot of employees then lol


i AM open to new ideas, we certainly havent mastered the mechanism yet, but i dont subscribe to conspiracy theories. On the other hand i definately do not trust big pharma either.

the biggest problem, is big pharma r the only ones with the money to do the proper studies that satisfy the fda and medical regulations etc. Or at least the only ones prepared to spend it. Certainly their end goal is to make the most money, but at the same time, who else can we depend on for the clinical proof.

I do agree with this that big pharma are not completely trustworthy, but they have families and relatives also. They are not out to just harm people or anything but they are trying to do some pretty hard stuff where no perfect solutions exist yet so sometimes things can happen.
Hair being sensitive to DHT and that causing male pattern baldness is a fact. Propecia and the biggest most reliable study in existence proves that. Is it only DHT? No one ever said that but maybe just stopping all androgens would stop hair loss forever probably not regrow anything though

 

[Lloyd Braun]

maybe just stopping all androgens would stop hair loss forever probably not regrow anything though

I think regular testosterone is sufficient to really mess up a hairline. Anthony Weiner's hairline could be exhibit A. Evidence exists to suggest that he has high T levels :innocent: But look at the rest of his hair--it is thick and there isn't crown thinning. A certain Syrian tyrant also has a hairline like Weiner's and his aggressiveness is evidence of high T levels. One of my fellow interns has hair like mine where he has thick hair but some trouble in the corners which is easily covered since he keeps his hair a few inches long. Since I don't have much, if any thinning, I think this is a separate type of male pattern baldness than the full on thinning and recession. Therefore, stopping T is important. Oral spironolactone is thus the closest we have to a cure yet.

 

[freakout]

Merck must have a hell of a lot of employees then lol

hell yes. larger than Microsoft at 94,000 - a super multinational. BUT I'm not talking about employees. These guys can never be found to be connected with Merck. They may not even know who or what it is they're doing it for. They probably work for an outfit loosely connected with Merck.

But the one thing that caught my attention is their common response everytime milk is brought up as a possible contributor - they flare up. It's as if they know something they're not telling. It may have something to do with Proscar and Propecia.

 

[freakout]

but i dont subscribe to conspiracy theories. On the other hand i definately do not trust big pharma either.

It's best to listen to what they have to say before dismissing it unless time is.

the biggest problem, is big pharma r the only ones with the money to do the proper studies that satisfy the fda and medical regulations etc. Or at least the only ones prepared to spend it. Certainly their end goal is to make the most money, but at the same time, who else can we depend on for the clinical proof.

If ever, it's seldom these companies engage in large scale studies - probably afraid some environmental factor might show up? Only non-profit NGOs engage in large scale such as the American Cancer Society usually with funding from national governments.

I saw your name in one of the scam sites. That forum is part of a loosely associated scam groups on the web. Beware. Those guys will say anything to get you to buy their supplements.

 

[freakout]

i AM open to new ideas, we certainly havent mastered the mechanism yet,

New ideas? I'm not sure I'm seeing that in your posts
Don't be too sure about the "we".

You're a med student, let me know your opinion on this article.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/06/24/si ... index.html

Hair being sensitive to DHT and that causing male pattern baldness is a fact

Who told you? That is a theory - NOT fact. You got hypnotized by the finboys. The truth? Merck has no idea how finasteride works.

 

[slurms mackenzie]

i AM open to new ideas, we certainly havent mastered the mechanism yet,

New ideas? I'm not sure I'm seeing that in your posts
Don't be too sure about the "we".

You're a med student, let me know your opinion on this article.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/06/24/si ... index.html

I'm not a med student but my first thought was the link between being active and the length of peoples telomeres.

 

[freakout]

New ideas? I'm not sure I'm seeing that in your posts
Don't be too sure about the "we".

You're a med student, let me know your opinion on this article.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/06/24/si ... index.html

I'm not a med student but my first thought was the link between being active and the length of peoples telomeres.

I see you still subscribe to conventional genetics. It's dead already as far as some geneticists are concerned. Genomics is the new push.

 

[Bryan]

Hair being sensitive to DHT and that causing male pattern baldness is a fact

Who told you? That is a theory - NOT fact. You got hypnotized by the finboys. The truth? Merck has no idea how finasteride works.

Please, everybody: DON'T FEED THE TROLLS. If you respond to such statements seriously, you'll just encourage him.