Why Propecia could ruin some peoples hair.

[Nathaniel]

The immune response to balding is another thing that has to be addressed, not just DHT, test or other hormones.

 

[JWM]

This is interesting, I must say. My hair certianly did become more diffuse while adding Finasteride over ten years ago. It has since continued to thin but SLOWLY.

I must also say that my diffuse pattern is down the middle of my scalp and towards the front. My crown is strong.

I also have none of the physical characteristics of those with 'high dht' levels in balding. I have practically zero body hair, only need to shave every other day, and have never had a pimple or oily scalp in my whole life. I am 34. I also used to be obsessed with bodybuilding and overdid it at a young age (no roids though) and this coincided with me first noticing my diffuse pattern.

I have always wondered if test was more the culprit than DHT for me.

 

[muaythai187]

I always wonder myself if Testosterone was one of the culrpit of hairloss. Hey JWM my hairloss is similar to yours ,I have a diffuse pattern baldness in the middle of the scalp and its doesn't coincide with male pattern baldness. As a professional athlete I been bodybuilding ever since I was 15 years old.

Regular aerobic exercise can help keep androgen levels (particularly free testosterone levels) naturally lower while maintaining overall health, lowering stress and increasing SHBG.
Weight training without aerobic exercise may increase testosterone. One study suggests that both heavy exercise and increased fat intake, in combination, are required for increased free testosterone in strength trainers. Increased total or free testosterone would help them build and repair muscle, but may cause susceptible individuals to lose hair.
However, there is at least one study that indicates a decline in free testosterone combined with an increase in strength due to an strength training regimen.

 

[JWM]

Muay Thai

I assume you're a fighter with your screen name? What are you currently using for your hair loss?

 

[DoctorHouse]

JWM,did you also apply minoxidil ever to those areas you say are thinning. I have the same pattern as you and I cannot pinpoint whether it was minoxidil or Propecia that caused my hair to go downhill in just 2 years when all my life it was fine. My crown too is fine. Here are some facts though. Propecia is not too effective for frontal hair and most likely the frontal anterior portion down the middle. Minoxidil is not too effective there too. So since our crowns are still good maybe the drugs do work but just not as well in the front. Revivogen advertises, it works for the front so maybe it did for me in the past and will help thicken up the diffuse thinning in the front. Age is another factor too. As you approach 40 years old, you have a 40 percent chance of showing SOME hair loss and most of the people I see in their 40's with perfect crowns do have that same diffuse thinning in the frontal part of the scalp and some recession in their hair line like you and I have. I had blood work done a few months ago and my testerone level was in the normal range for my age but nothing even close to being a high normal. I think also the stress of scrutinizing our hair and paying such close attention and worrying about whether the drugs are making it worse or not could possible induce some type of mild telogen effluvium and usually that appears to effect the frontal hairs and down the middle. I guess its a gamble one way or the other but I started with Propecia and now I feel I need to stay with it just in case it is slowing things down in my crown at least. At least in our case, we would not need as many grafts if we decide on a hair transplant.

 

[muaythai187]

Hey JWM to answer your question I was on propecia for 6 months but had to stop because it was affecting my Libido too much plus Finasteride is not allowed in the sports business. Currently I only use rogaine foam for my hairloss to stimulate the hairloss in the middle strip of the top of my head. Its like the mohawk of baldness so hopefully it will fill in. I'm just hoping they developed another drug for hairloss with minimal sides. I read some researchers were studying the stem cells in healing skin wound in a mice and regenerated new hair follicles in the wounded skin with a combination with a special compound.

It was on the topics on nbcs today show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODgjlIw585s

 

[JWM]

Good luck Muay Thai. I would add in some Nizoral 2% Shampoo as well if I were you.

Dr.House

I believe it was the finasteride that hurt more because I had been using minoxidil for awhile beforehand. It was only the 2% (all that was available at the time) AND I made the dumb mistake of DROPPING minoxidil when i started finasteride.

I'm really starting to believe that the Test theory on frontal diffuse thinning really might be on to something. IF we can address mutliple factors we may be on to something. Currently I am using Prox-N (SOD, Immune response), minoxidil (Growth stimulator), nizoral 2% (mild antiandrogen and antinflammatory), Topical spironolactone (Antiandrogen) and a small dose of oral finasteride because I've been using it for so long.

 

[DoctorHouse]

Well, I guess with Revivogen and Proxiphen, it would make sense to see some improvement then with those areas. Does not the testosterone theory coincide with reflex hyperandrogenicity. If that is the case wouldn't you have an increase in acne, oily skin and body hair with this theory or is it possible to still happen without the reflex hyperandrogenicity happening?

 

[evershed]

Other tests that are important for "diffude thinners" are TSH, T3, T4, glucose tolerance, and fasting insulin. Thyroid problems are notorious for causing hair loss, and insulin resistance, more often than not, causes lowered shbg and increased free test.

These conditions also tend to manifest as male-patter diffuse hair loss, so don't just assume that since you're not losing as much off the back and sides, you're in the clear.

The solution may be as simple as Metformin or Liothyronine. Its not necessarily a coincidence that so many overweight men are bald.

Get a FULL panel hormone test. Your health is much more important than your hair, but you may be able to salvage both!

Also, my free test changed negligably even after 2mg Avodart 3 months in to treatment while DHT dropped to the level of a woman (one without PCOS)--only my results, of course. The Phd is correct though, diet adjustment can have an effect on your hair.

 

[DoctorHouse]

I have had recent blood tests for everything and it was normal. So the only possible cause of sudden diffuse frontal thinning is Propecia or Rogaine Foam.

 

[billythekid]

If Free Test is killing your hair, without the DHT factor, then a healthy diet will raise SHBG and lower your Free Test... The only solution is now Antiandrogens to beat the Free Test to the receptor sites.

I'm not sure I understand this.

How can I know or suspect that free test is killing my hair?

I certainly do agree that people should get blood tests to check important hormones if they can.

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

There was a study that Bryan posted that showed increase hair counts in the frontal portion of the scale vs. placebo while on finasteride.

Since finasteride does nothing to lower T levels I doubt T is any more responsible for frontal loss as it is for crown loss.

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

and another thing.

my hair loss is diffused as well...in fact i still have a perfectly straight hairline with STRONG thick temples....the middle of my hairline is a little weaker. I have been on propecia for a little over a year and a half and my hair is better then when i started.

 

[DoctorHouse]

HTGT, was your middle hairline always weaker? My diffuse thinning is straight down the middle too. But then again, I part my hair down the middle too and I have been told that is natural to see some scalp if you part your hair down the middle. If I blow dry my hair and comb it back with no middle part, I have no scalp visible. My crown is fine. Right now my frontal hairline looks like I had a hair transplant with all these little hairs but I have no idea if they are hairs coming or miniaturizing. If I could just thicken up those areas I would be in great shape. Unfortunately, that is the hardest area to thicken up. I notice my hair diameter tends change thickness on certain days? Any explanation how that happens?

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

HOnestly no...when i first noticed my hair loss it was general thinning on the top of my head...probably mostly concentrated around the crown....it was only noticeable when my hair was soaked and spiked. The front thinned out too a littler but it was only the middle front...the temples have always been strong with no signs of thinning....but, ive noticed that the front has gotten a little better after being on the propecia for a year or so....its in pretty decent shape now. My crown and the whole top of my head definitely thickened up SOME on propecia...its not perfect but no one would notice im balding...i mean i can wear my hair wet and it still doesnt look bad. If the front middle of my hair line thickened up my hair would be pretty perfect, but its probably not gonna happen....so id be happy just to maintain it as is for a few years and hope some better treatments are out by then.....OR at least id consider jumping on rogaine foam.

To answer your question though...i dont think propecia has done anything negative to my hair at all. I think i would be MUCH worse off if i wasnt on it. I can remember shedding 50+ hairs per shower before starting and now i notice maybe 5-10.

 

[bcapop]

There is NO proof that testosterone kills hairs and it could actually be good for you. Testosterone also competes with DHT which is a good thing.

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

There is NO proof that testosterone kills hairs and it could actually be good for you. Testosterone also competes with DHT which is a good thing.

Bryan has posted a study showing that other androgens are responsible for hair loss but not to the extent of DHT.

 

[bcapop]

There is NO proof that testosterone kills hairs and it could actually be good for you. Testosterone also competes with DHT which is a good thing.

Bryan has posted a study showing that other androgens are responsible for hair loss but not to the extent of DHT.

Then show me the study. And don't show me this study: "Effect of 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone and testosterone on apoptosis in human dermal papilla cells."

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

There is NO proof that testosterone kills hairs and it could actually be good for you. Testosterone also competes with DHT which is a good thing.

Bryan has posted a study showing that other androgens are responsible for hair loss but not to the extent of DHT.

Then show me the study. And don't show me this study: "Effect of 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone and testosterone on apoptosis in human dermal papilla cells."

i dont have it...i just remember reading it.

 

[Lucky_UK]

Well,

Dr Youseff didnt last long here! :woot: