WiCkEdSiCk's Story

WiCkEdSiCk

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Hey guys, i've been reading this stuff for a while and i've finally decided to say something. Its been a confusing year of hope and despair that hasn't brought any solutions for me. I'm the youngest user i've seen on here. I just turned sixteen a few weeks ago and ive been looking at this for about a month.
I've been balding for about a year now and its been a pretty emberrassing situation for a sophomore in high school to go through. It Started to be noticable in fall of last year. Silly enough that i wasn't even the first one to notice, I had a parted hair style and my friend told me that that my scalp kept getting more noticable. Well after this i told my mom (she is what you could call a health nut) and she took me to an herbal doctor, she drew my blood and showed me it and my stuff was wack. My red Blood cells were all deformed in odd shapes and jammed up piled on top of each other (as opposed to being a healthy puck shaped freely moving through my blood stream) and i was filled with, as she told me, parasites. This actually is a whole story in itself and i can explain that stuff later if your interested. But basically my health was terrible, So she told me that i was too young to be balding and that it must be my terrible health.
I readily accepted this conclusion and i started eating right and taking vitimans and all that jazz. Although i felt alot better and my quality of life improved, my hair didn't. I stopped parting my hair and kept on believing in the health remedy, and was fine since it was generally hard to notice.
In the winter i was swimming and it was just terrible, i never took off my cap i was so emberrassed. So then i chose to buzz my hair, this made it look a whole lot better and dramatically improved my self confidance. After a while the scalp became more noticable and i worried a bit.
After months of taking fish oils and the like of that i once again realized i needed to do something. Late in the winter i scheduled an appointment with a doctor, during this he tested my thyroid (my mom had thyroid cancer) and mine was pretty messed, so i started on some thyrolar. Since i've heard hair loss can relate to thyroid issues, i was very confident that i would get better. But as before, it made me feel a little better but didnt really do a whole lot for my hair.
Later, in the spring i once again looked for a remedy, and i found out that my thyroid was still lacking and i added armor thyroid to the thryrolar. This time i really didnt notice a whole lot and started to get fed up with the delays. So i started looking on the internet at all of this stuff, and i've found plenty of useful information.
Well, tomarrow im going back to the herbal doctor ( the first one), and im going to try to convince both her and my mother that i should take some dht blocker and possibly try more than just health solutions I'll also have to prove that my hair has only gotten worse since last year.
Ive got thinning all over my crown and its surprisingly noticable for how young i am, my buzzcut really isn't helping much anymore and I want to start on something before school starts again in a couple of weeks. Well, I've got my apointment in about 13 hours, so if i could some answers before i'd be better prepared to school the herbal lady :D

Is it possible that it could be a lack of vitimans and minerals that is causing the balding?

Could it be that im either taking too little or too much thyroid medicine and that's causing my balding, or if it even matters at all?

Do you need to use the Loreal thickening shampoo every day for it to be effective or can you use it every other day? (it really makes my hair brittle and unhealthy feeling)

Have you ever heard of a 15-16 year old balding as quickly as i have?
(noticably thin crown coverage in less than a year)

Thank you guys for reading, and thanks for answers and support, i really appreciate it.
 

21gone

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Sure I have seen some that young starting to bald as a matter of fact I had two friends who started to bald that young. I would sugges that you compile all the information possible on this site for your visit tomorrow. By that I mean make sure you print the study if she talks about saw palmetto, bring in info about dht, know how it can be blocked and if it is not the effect it can have on your hair. Really go in there with your information straight, that is what I did when I spoke to my Doctor about finasteride, he was impressed and gave me a script for it. After a few minutes on this site you probably know more about male pattern baldness than the Doctor anyway. If the Doctor is persistant on the herbal remedies ask for studies that prove it, you can always have your studies ready for finasteride or minoxidil. I would also suggest that you bring your mom to this site and let her read the info just so she knows what is going on as well it may make her feel more at ease when it comes time to treat your case of male pattern baldness. I know younguyuk started taking finasteride when he was 17 so it is not all that uncommon, but that is something that you should discuss with your Doctor and your mom.
To answer some of your questions, yes it could be medication, some medication has a side effect that could make you lose your hair although it is not too common not sure in your case, as far as I know as long as you are eating I have not heard of anyone who lost their hair because lack of vitamin or minerals other than some for example body builders when they cut some lose a some hair because of the strict diet. I am not sure about the shampoo because I do not use that type. Hopefully this helps, and good luck at the Doctor just make sure you are prepared with some info.
 

WiCkEdSiCk

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thanks for the help 21, i'll definitly be prepared. Another question, is it true that your balding gene comes through your mothers side, or does it come from both your mother and your fathers genes?
 

Wezz

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yeah i started thinning at 15 as well but not very fast im 17 now and i hate my hair :roll: i dont know why the hell its like this starting male pattern baldness at such an early stages but i guess its the "family" sh*t. Anyways i have a good regimen and i hope i will regrow some hair :cry:
 

WiCkEdSiCk

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Well i've got some good news, the herbal doctor i went to today was, surprisingly, all for the dht blocker when i brought it up. Its nice to finally know it wont get worse :D
 

BadHairDecade

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When you say DHT blocker do you mean Propecia?....Personally I think 16 is way too young. DUde you're still going through puberty. You still kind of need your DHT.
I suggest maybe just start on minoxidil and go to a Dermatologist. Regualr Dr's don't know too much about balding and I'm sure they don't know too much about the meds to treat it either.

your *** hurts you go to a proctologist
your foot hurts you go to a podiatrist
your hairs falling out you go to a Dermatologist

JMHO

BHD
 

WiCkEdSiCk

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no, im not getting propecia, im trying some all herbal dht blocker, i got a free one month test, so if it does mess with my hormones too much (or if it dosent work) it will have only costed me shipping..
 

21gone

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What is the herbal dht blocker, because there is no known herbal remedy to block dht. I would also say wait to get on finasteride, get on minoxidil for awhile until you are a bit older the minoxidil should hold on to the hair until you can start finasteride, or you could always try spironolactone some ppl live and die by it.
 

WiCkEdSiCk

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It definitly is an all herbal dht blocker, you can see for yourself at http://www.allherbalhair.com and they seem to have the same percentages of stopping hair loss as finasteride 80% success rate compared to 83 or something like that.
Why would taking a dht blocker be a unwise choice for a sixteen year old, how does it mess with the hormones? what does your body use the dht for? sorry if this is a silly question but there's still alot of confusion out there.
Thanks for all advice and answers, i appreciate any help.
 

BadHairDecade

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Herbal or not doesn't matter....blocking DHT is blocking DHT. BTW there is no known herbal product or combination of products that inhibit DHT. The only one that is thought to have any effect on DHT is Saw Palmetto and that's been shown to have no effect on DHT.
Also, one month is not long enough to see if a treatment is working.
I hate seeing someone being suckered into herbal remedies for hairloss. They never have, and never will work for hairloss. There are a thousand of them out there, why do you think none of us are using them?

I still say go for minoxidil and Nizoral shampoo
 

Brasileirao

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Bro, the website doesnt seem legit. I would seriously look for something with "scientific" backing behind it. I do agree that you may be too young for Propecia and maybe something like minoxidil and some Cu-Peptides can do the trick until you are old enough to start Propecia.

Good Luck!!
Tony
 

BadHairDecade

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OK big time scam here...
FIst off their claiming their product is FDA Approved for hairloss. Look in the FAQ section of that sight

Q: What are the clinical studies

A: The clinical studies are based on saw palmetto a DHT blocker in trials against Proscar ( finistride) the active chemical name for propecia. The trials were positive in the ability to block DHT while not producing the side effects of pharmaceutical drugs.

I think we've found our next K__ B.
 

21gone

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Ditto, the net is filled with fake sites like this, do yourself a favor and search on this site for saw palmetto, they just found again that it does nothing for your hair. I speak from expierence that it does not do much if anything at all. Just look around this site some more and you will find the answers you are looking for. Bottom line is you can do something now about your hairloss that is proven or you can attempt to combat it with questionable unproven methods. In a few years from now though when you tried all the unproven methods and you are sitting at a NW6 you will wish you had tried something that is proven. I tried some of the same stuff I am just thankful for this site it may have just saved my head of hair. Try some spironolactone and minoxidil or cu peptides till you can get on finasteride.
 

WiCkEdSiCk

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what are cu-peptides? And i am concerned over this treatment...thats why i'm doing the one month free trial...i wouldnt call it being suckered into a treatment. If its worthless i can just dump it. And i know that one month shouldnt be enough time to notice a difference, but if they say i'll be able to see a difference in that amount of time and i don't, proving that they're worthless why would i ever re-order?
On top of all of this its still pretty likely that my hair loss could be caused by my thyroid problems, explaining how it happened so insanely fast. Im not to eager to jump on rogaine if im not sure of my options.. and if its not the right treatment.
I apologize if i come off as rude or unappreciative, the concerns your raising for me im seriously considering, Im being careful.
Thank you once again for all help.
 

WiCkEdSiCk

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first off, sorry for the double post. I bombarded the sites email with questions regarding all of these points that you guys have made, and im hoping to see some feasible answers. Oh, and what is spironolactone? sorry for these kinds of questions that are probably annoying. I'll check those things on saw palmento out now..
 

21gone

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spironolactone is topical finasteride basically without all the side effects. Anyway I would say stick with proven science and go to a real Doctor to figure out thyroid problem. There is a good chance that it does come from your thyroid or at least part of it, but I highly doubt an herbal Doctor is going to be able to solve that for you. I am not saying all herbal remedies are bad, God knows that MSM has helped my surgically repaired knee, I am saying however that if you want to solve these issues you need to see a real Doctor as far as the thyroid goes. You should be careful because of your age, but that is why we say stay off the finasteride.
 

WiCkEdSiCk

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Yea the website hasnt responded yet and it's been a couple of days so it does seem to be pretty bogus..
And i keep asking this, why do i need dht, what does it do? (besides balding)
Thanks
 

Petchsky

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Thats the thing, i don't think they know 100% what it actually does for the body, but it must do something since hairloss is an effect. Best guess i can think off is that its used during puberty and thats why your being warned off propecia for now.
 

twmajors

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Here's the good news, you found this site.
I started losing my hair at 19 and went through a shitload of bogus products.
After years of searching I found a valid site, this one.
Listen to what people have to tell you here. They are all older guys who have been doing this for years and friggin years.
There are three things recommended here, AND they are the only things scientifically proven to stop and reverse hairloss.
Propecia, Minoxidil, and Nizoral.
You're too young for propecia, it'll f*** up your hormones and you'll end up with tits (it's called gyno - I'm not joking). Wait till your 18 and then start on the propecia.
There are replacements which are not clinically proven but people at this site swear by.
spironolactone is one of them and you just might want to try it.
Anyway, don't rush off and buy everything that claims to have a 1000% success rate.
Here's how you tell if it's a scam. If they offer you a money back guarantee, it is MOST DEFINITELY a scam.
Minoxidil, Propecia, neither offer your money back because they know it works.

I happen to know a little bit about herbs, (I worked at a Holistic Institute), and what I can tell you is that you need to stick with the PROVEN science.

Anyway, read this site from top to bottom, don't believe tv or mag ads that promise results in a month, and do believe things will get better.
 

BadHairDecade

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Ok found this article on bodybuilding.com about DHT
The Facts & Myths About: DHT

A considerable chunk of my workday is always spent answering people's questions about prohormones and steroids. Of course, one of the biggest concerns people have is about estrogen and estrogen related side effects. Right behind that however are questions about DHT. It seems that people have the misconception that DHT is some evil androgen byproduct that serves no purpose in the body but to make our prostates blow up and our hair fall out.

The real situation is of course much more complex. DHT is one of those good guy/bad guy hormones that is sorely misunderstood. For many people, it is NOT something that you want to reduce or eliminate in the body. For some others though, keeping DHT levels under control is probably a prudent course of action. Knowing the facts about DHT will help you decide just which group you belong to.

Testosterone Is A Prohormone?

The main androgen secreted by the testes is of course testosterone. However, in most of the body, the androgenic signal is not carried through by testosterone. In these tissues, which include the brain (CNS), skin, genitalsâ€â€practically everything but muscleâ€â€the active androgen is actually DHT. Testosterone in this case simply acts as a prohormone that is converted to the active androgen DHT by the action of the enzyme 5alpha reductase (5-AR).

5-AR is concentrated heavily in practically every androgen dependent area of the body except for skeletal muscle. This results in very little testosterone actually getting through to these parts of the body to bind to androgen receptors. Instead, it is quickly transformed into DHT, which then interacts with receptors.

This transformation serves a very important biological function in these tissues. You see, DHT is a much stronger androgen than testosterone - it binds about 3-5 times more strongly to the androgen receptor. If you took away 5-AR from these tissues and blocked the formation of DHT, then you would see some dramatic changes in physiology.

A good case in point is demonstrated in male pseudohermaphroditism due to congenital 5-AR deficiency. This is a relatively rare disorder, however it is actually quite common in the Dominican Republic. In this disorder, males are born with little or no 5-AR enzyme. They have ambiguous genitalia and are often raised as girls. When puberty occurs, their testosterone levels elevate normally although their DHT levels remain very low. Their musculature develops normally like that of other adults, however, they end up with little or no pubic/body hair and underdeveloped prostate and penis. Their libido and sexual function is often disrupted also.

Testosterone Is The Active Androgen In Muscle

Skeletal muscle is unique from other androgen dependent tissues in the body. It actually contains little or no 5-AR, so little or no DHT is actually formed in the muscle. In addition to this, any DHT that is formed, or that is already present in the blood and travels to the muscle, is quickly deactivated by an enzyme called 3alpha-hydroxysteroid reductase (3a-HSD).

So at least as far as muscle is concerned, testosterone is the primary active androgen. This is not to say that administering exogenous DHT is not without any anabolic effect. It actually does have some anabolic activity in the muscle, albeit significantly weaker than that of an equal amount of testosterone. This is due to its quick breakdown by 3a-HSD into the weak metabolite 5alpha-androstan-3a, 17b-diol. If this enzyme were somehow blocked, it is likely that DHT would exhibit very potent anabolic effects on muscle.

It is important to understand that even though testosterone is the active androgen in muscle, and DHT exhibits relatively little direct anabolic effects on muscle in men, DHT is still very important for the full performance enhancement effects from testosterone. What I specifically mean here are the effects of DHT on the central nervous system that lead to increased neurological efficiency (strength), and increased resistance to psychological and physical stressâ€â€not to mention optimal sexual function and libido.

I have heard several anecdotal reports of individuals who have stacked testosterone with Proscar (a 5-AR inhibitor) and have noticed significantly reduced performance enhancement effects. What's going on here? We know it couldn't be due to the inhibition of the direct anabolic activity of testosterone on muscle anabolism. Most likely it is due to the reduction of androgenic effects in other parts of the body that contribute to the ergogenic effects. Specifically the CNS, which is stimulated by androgens to increase neural output leading to greater strength and greater recoverability. Another possibility is a reduction in the production of androgen dependent liver growth factors (such as IGF-1), since DHT is an important androgen in the liver.

Anti-Estrogen Effects Of DHT

One important function of DHT in the body that does not get much discussion is its antagonism of estrogen. Some men that take Proscar learn this the hard wayâ€â€by developing a case of gynecomastia. By reducing DHT's protection against estrogen in the body, these men have fallen victim to its most dreaded ramification-b**ch tits.

How does DHT protect against estrogen? There are at least three ways that this likely occurs. First of all, DHT directly inhibits estrogens activity on tissues. It either does this by acting as a competitive antagonist to the estrogen receptor or by decreasing estrogen-induced RNA transcription at a point subsequent to estrogen receptor binding.

Second of all, DHT and its metabolites have been shown to directly block the production of estrogens from androgens by inhibiting the activity of the aromatase enzyme. The studies done in breast tissue showed that DHT, androsterone, and 5alpha-androstandione are potent inhibitors of the formation of estrone from androstenedione. 5alpha-androstandione was shown to be the most potent, while androsterone was the least.

Lastly, DHT acts on the hypothalamus/pituitary to decrease the secretion of gonadotropins. By decreasing the secretion of gonadotropins you decrease the production of the raw materials for estrogen production testosterone and androstenedione (DHT itself cannot aromatize into estrogens). This property of DHT comes into particular utility when it is administered exogenously, and this is to be discussed in further detail in the next section.

DHT, Estrogen, And The Prostate

When it comes to sex hormones, few things are as misunderstood by the general consumer as the relationship of the prostate to DHT. The inaccurate and overly simplistic attitude that DHT is responsible for prostate hypertrophy, and even prostate cancer predominates amongst most people.

The real situation is, of course, much more complex. One must understand that there are marked differences between healthy prostate growth (developmental growth), prostate growth due to BPH, and cancerous prostate growth.

The first period of prostate growth, deemed developmental growth, is connected to puberty and the testicular secretion of androgens. This takes the prostate from its prepubertal dormancy to the normal sized, healthy, and functional prostate gland of an adult. During the early and mid adult years the prostate stays at this stage, despite the constant levels of high levels of androgens in the body. However, if androgens are blocked in the body then the adult prostate will shrink in size. This can occur by castration, or even by blockade of 5-AR (recall that DHT is the active androgen in the prostate).

Later in life, there is often a second stage of growth. This growth is deemed benign prostate hypertrophy (BPH) and this growth occurs in a wholly different hormonal environment than that of developmental growth. Evidence is mounting that the existence of a high estrogen/androgen ratioâ€â€a condition common in older menâ€â€is highly correlated to the development of BPH.

Experimental studies have shown the inability of androgens with saturated A rings (DHT related) to induce an initial condition of prostate hypertrophy. These compounds are non-aromatizable. While, aromatizable androgens on the other hand, such as testosterone or androstenedione can induce hyperplasic modifications of the prostate of monkeys, but these effects are reversed by addition of an aromatase inhibitor.

So apparently, estrogen is a causative factor in BPH. Or, probably more accurately, estrogen in the presence of a minimum, permissive amount of androgen.

None of this may come as news to many of you, but I bet that very few of you know that DHT can actually be used to treat BPH!! How can it do that? It basically does this by replacing the testosterone in the body, which then has the effect of reducing the amount of estrogen in the body.


"DHT can actually be used to treat benign
prostate hypertrophy (BPH)!"
As I started to explain before, DHT is a strong androgen that will signal the pituitary to decrease the production of gonadotropins. The decrease in gonadotropins will then cause less testosterone to be produced which will in turn cause the estrogen levels to drop. The resulting change in the hormonal milieu (high DHT, low estrogen) then apparently results in a regression of BPH. The clinical application of this theory is discussed in US patent 5,648,350 Dihydrotestosterone for use in androgenotherapy.

The following two paragraphs taken from the patent study illustrates the results:



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In 27 subjects in which the plasma DHT level was controlled, so as to modulate the administered doses, said levels have been increased to 2.5 to 6 ng/ml. There resulted a decrease in gonadotrophy as well as in the plasma levels of testosterone which exceeded at least 1.5 ng/ ml (from 0.5 to 1.4 according to the case); as to the estradiol plasma levels, these decreased by 50% .
Among this group of subjects, the volume of the prostate diminished significantly, as was evaluated by ultrasound and by PSA (Prostate Specific Antigen). The mean volume of the prostates was from 31.09. + .16.31 grams before treatment and from 26.34. + -. 12.72 grams after treatment, for a mean reduction of 15.4%, the treatment having a mean duration of 1.8 years with DHT (P= 0.01).


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The information from this study kind of flies in the face of the traditional thinking concerning BPH now doesn't it?

Conclusion

Unfortunately, people seem to have a natural tendency to classify things as either good or bad, black or white with absolutely no gray areas. DHT (like estrogen) has recently been on everyone's bad list, and is often considered to be a hormone that serves no function in the body except to cause harm. Now that you have all the necessary facts you can ultimately see, this view is far from the truth.

In my opinion, the widespread use of 5-AR inhibitors such as Proscar as a prophylactic agent for people that don't really need it should be highly reconsidered. After reading this I hope you'll agree with me or at least keep an open mind on this sensitive subject. In other words, why don't you just give DHT a break.
 
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