Wow I am learning SO much tonight!!

[Hoppi]

All about superoxide dismutase, glutathione, the importance of antioxidants, the effects of nitric oxide and peroxynitrite, the causes of sebum, fungal infections and dandruff when you lose hair, all this crazy stuff! hehe!

You know when you're learning so much and like, absorbing so much it's almost like you can feel your brain getting bigger? rofl ^_^

It's good though like, I love learning about it, because I'm learning how to protect my hair but also how to get really good care of myself as well. And this line up of supplements:

Ecklonia Cava, Curcumin, Krill oil, lipoic acid, acetyl l-carnitine, vits D and K, and biotin

are looking more and more wonderful with everything I learn! There are only a few small parts of this chain I don't quite yet understand, smaller pockets that are still mysteries to me.

If someone could explain to me:

a) WHY it is that DHT/hair loss increases sebum? (is it just accumulation of DHT in the sebum?)

and

b) the exact chain leading from DHT interacting with the androgen receptor to hair follicle death? Something about GSK-3beta and MMP-9 and all this stuff! So damn complex!!


Sorry hehe! Brain.. full to.. bursting! rofl

I also really hope I can help others with this stuff though too

and ok, at some point I need to learn to sleep lol


Hoppiiii! ^_^

 

[Jacob]

Yeah..it actually is pretty funny :woot:

 

[Bryan]

a) WHY it is that DHT/hair loss increases sebum? (is it just accumulation of DHT in the sebum?)

I don't think there's any causal relationship between hair loss and sebum. Dr. Proctor has said in the past that sebaceous glands probably respond a little more actively to androgens in some people, for the same general reason(s) that hair follicles do: somewhat higher levels of androgens and various steroidogenic enzymes, the presence of more active androgen receptor polymorphisms, etc.

b) the exact chain leading from DHT interacting with the androgen receptor to hair follicle death? Something about GSK-3beta and MMP-9 and all this stuff! So damn complex!!

You mean, how do androgens lead to balding? This has been discussed many times. Do we have to go over it for the umpteenth time?

 

[skribb]

Enough with these goddamn supplements!

I really appreciate the people doing research but there are so many opinions on what's good it's driving me slightly MAD. I've been looking up supplements for like a week and I'm still not finished. And THEN I still have the process of weighing the pros and cons of all of them 'cause I'm not gonna take 30 pills a day.

 

[Defiance]

Enough with these G**d*** supplements!

I really appreciate the people doing research but there are so many opinions on what's good it's driving me slightly MAD. I've been looking up supplements for like a week and I'm still not finished. And THEN I still have the process of weighing the pros and cons of all of them 'cause I'm not gonna take 30 pills a day.

I know ay, i really like the idea of using supps as an addition to finasteride to really kick male pattern baldness in the nuts, but theres so many vitamins etc its hard to keep up.

Maybe Hoppi once your done soaking up all this hair knowledge you could tell me some crucial ones that may help.

At the mo im taking
- vitamic c
- fish oil
- starting MSM
- herbal dht blocker (saw palmetto, beta sitosterol, phygeum, horstail extract, zinc, copper, B6, Biotin, silica)
^ not sure if these do a whole lot but my hair definately grows way quicker when i take the hair supp consistently, think its the horsetail.

Also recently added Tocomin Suprabio afew days ago, there was some study in asia that said it boosted hair count by like 40% or some crazy sh*t. Talked to a 'hair doctor' that trialed it and he said his hair definately felt thicker. I'd say its more for diffuse which i dont really have but thought couldnt hurt and may score some extra growth

 

[skribb]

Enough with these G**d*** supplements!

I really appreciate the people doing research but there are so many opinions on what's good it's driving me slightly MAD. I've been looking up supplements for like a week and I'm still not finished. And THEN I still have the process of weighing the pros and cons of all of them 'cause I'm not gonna take 30 pills a day.

- herbal dht blocker (saw palmetto, beta sitosterol, phygeum, horstail extract, zinc, copper, B6, Biotin, silica)
^ not sure if these do a whole lot but my hair definately grows way quicker when i take the hair supp consistently, think its the horsetail.

Say is this "herbal dht blocker" a proprietary concoction of yours or readily available in stores? Also do you take it orally? I could hit quite a few proverbial birds with that stone.

 

[Hoppi]

The great CausticSymmetry speaks! lol

Man this guy makes me look like SUCH a noob (which I am but let's forget that) xD

"Hoppipolla - When blood sugar levels are low, due to high insulin clearing glucose levels from the blood, liver and so forth, the adrenal glands are stimulated to increase adrogens, and at the same time, the body is urged to replenish its supply of glucose, so when glucose levels raise again with the consumption of food, the eventual high glucose level will increase IGF-1, which will increase sebum, and the cycle repeats.

For a more exact explanation you can check this PDF file out:

http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles/Fi ... rticle.pdf "


So dude AGAIN it comes down to insulin.. mad. Insulin and cortisol truly are THE hormones in all this aren't they? Like, obviously not at the very outer level, because there yes we are talking about testosterone, DHT, and probably also the less direct effects of estrogen (still learning about that one), but at a lower level, it seems to be insulin, and cortisol. Not for all of us, of course, but they seem to be significant factors in hair loss. Which FINALLY fully explains why long term stress, diabetes, metabolic syndrome and ALL that stuff seems to have a connection to male pattern baldness! It's so nice actually going into something to such a degree of depth that you can really understand the trends and how they fit into the overall picture!

So maybe then the sebum just increases..... which means more DHT accumulation! Of course! So it's not just SERUM dht, it's not just 5ar upregulation or quantity, it's not even just androgen sensitivity of the follicle, it's amount of sebum too! Goddayum ._. heh

Another page on this: http://www.natural-acne-solution.com/bl ... -acne.html


I mean again it's too early to be SURE, but it really fits doesn't it?


Oh, and yeah Defiance and people I will totally fill you in as I learn more! So far I can say with reasonable confidence that Nutricology Fibroboost, Krill Oil, Curcumin, and also stuff like GliSODin should help, and also most of all like I've said loads (this is to everyone) - CHECK YOUR INSULIN AND CORTISOL LEVELS!

(the latter only particularly applies if you suspect stress as a possible contributor or trigger to your male pattern baldness)

Oh, and check your thyroid too. lol

Those 3 seem to be of particular importance in all of this, and all 3 of mine are out of whack lol

 

[armandein]

Hi Hoppi

Sebum is a complexe mixture but it is important not only the quantity but its quality. Sebum change its properties passing the time, physical, chemical and biology action.

Armando

 

[Jacob]

Notice how he asks questions here but doesn't seem to care what the responses are..and in fact posts answers from you-know-where..? Spam comes in so many flavors these days...

 

[squeegee]

Enough with these G**d*** supplements!

I really appreciate the people doing research but there are so many opinions on what's good it's driving me slightly MAD. I've been looking up supplements for like a week and I'm still not finished. And THEN I still have the process of weighing the pros and cons of all of them 'cause I'm not gonna take 30 pills a day.

Supplementation is really a personal thing.. Start with your own regimen and then add/delete some of it.. it is a pain in the arse..With the internet we are overfloaded of frigging info.

 

[BornIn89]

While taking supplements Isn't gonna do you any harm, it aint gonna stop you going bald either. Waste of money if you ask me.

 

[hairandthere]

Wow, are you trying crack for hairloss too?

 

[skribb]

While taking supplements Isn't gonna do you any harm, it aint gonna stop you going bald either. Waste of money if you ask me.

How do you dress? What do you listen to apart from Diru? I want to know if I should value your opinion or not.

 

[Brains Expel Hair]

Let's say you get hit in the eyes often. Now you don't want to get hit in the eyes so much so you start looking for ways to stop this from continuing. Now you happen to realize after a lot of careful study that without fail, getting hit in the eye is always preceded with you blinking. Holy crap! Blinking is 100% associated with getting hit in the eye! Ok, simple fix: you cut the nerve that causes your eye to blink. Now, do you think you'd be better or worse off? Yes excess cortisol levels can be found in some cases of hair loss (mine were clinically high), however cortisol injections are also used to successfully treat immune system related hair loss. It's your body trying to prevent damage, not create it.

 

[Hoppi]

Cortisol?

Do you mean it's not a good thing to reduce cortisol levels? I think in cases of long-term stress it probably is, I don't believe the adrenals are meant to work that hard, they probably do tire themselves out, they seem to spoil insulin sensitivity and thyroid balance, it does a lot of harm.

Luckily, a combination of good food, less stress, a good helping of magnesium and b vitamins and a really strong adaptogen like ashwagandha should be great first steps in a road to recovery ^_^

 

[Jacob]

Or Shilajit.

 

[BornIn89]

Luckily, a combination of good food, less stress, a good helping of magnesium and b vitamins and a really strong adaptogen like ashwagandha should be great first steps in a road to recovery ^_^

If it was that easy do you really think any of us would be here?

 

[Hoppi]

Luckily, a combination of good food, less stress, a good helping of magnesium and b vitamins and a really strong adaptogen like ashwagandha should be great first steps in a road to recovery ^_^

If it was that easy do you really think any of us would be here?

I was talking about the road to recovery from chronic stress or adrenal fatigue, not male pattern baldness.

To be honest so much of what I've been studying to do with male pattern baldness brings me back time and time again to insulin, and IGF-1. This won't be the trigger in everyone I wouldn't imagine, as there's also testosterone decline with age, thyroid imbalances, high free radical activity, other forms of inflammation such as that caused by stress, T/E imbalances, cortisol etc, but I would imagine that as people like Immortal say, most people with male pattern baldness will have some kind of issue with insulin levels or thyroid balance, particularly younger people with hair loss. T/E imbalance can also be caused by other things (including age) it seems, like chemicals, dietary habits, all kinds of things, hell even too much sex/masturbation seems to do it! xD

I dunno like, it's a complicated thing, but I think if someone has male pattern baldness, the first thing they're gonna want is a really good blood test, to spot abnormalities.

Buuuut that's just me

 

[Brains Expel Hair]

Just as excess cortisol is associated with a "problem", normal-low level cortisol levels are associated with a healthy state of the body. Yes monitoring your cortisol levels would be a good way of determining the overall state of health in your body but potentially artificially reducing cortisol levels by forcing your body to not be able to produce as much of it without actually addressing the reason why your body raised cortisol levels in the first place, could be a very bad thing to do.

So going and taking some chemical (food or medical based) that affects the synthesis pathway of cortisol could cause you to lose even more hair. Fixing w/e imbalance or genetic cause that triggered the excess cortisol levels would be fantastic.

 

[Bryan]

So maybe then the sebum just increases..... which means more DHT accumulation! Of course! So it's not just SERUM dht, it's not just 5ar upregulation or quantity, it's not even just androgen sensitivity of the follicle, it's amount of sebum too! Goddayum ._. heh

What makes you so sure that sebum has anything to do with hair loss? If there were sebum in your big toe, do you think that would also affect your scalp hair follicles?