Gadgetine

Who Would Help Fund A Kerastem Therapy?

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Mr White

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Vincent777 said:
hair transplant is less invasive than this, depending though on what you mean by invasive.
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What do you mean exactly?

Can anyone please describe the Kerastem procedure? How long does it take, how painful is it, how many doctors/nurses are involved and what do they do exactly and, most importantly, when can you expect to see some results? I thought this consisted of removing fat from the belly and injecting it into the scalp. Surely it is much less painful and less complicated than a hair transplant...
 
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jayeffbee

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Vincent777 said:
hair transplant is less invasive than this, depending though on what you mean by invasive.
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That's fair, also you can get a hair transplant without flying across the world :p

Also, I forget but did you ever translate the gist of this video for us?

occulus said:
I wasn't saying losing money was the more serious risk, I was simply questioning the unstated assumption in your post that it actually works, which would be the first question that needs to be answered in the decision chain. So far, no one on any of the boards has claimed it regrew hair, which, for me, is the only metric that matters when evaluating the protocol. Once that's established (and I'm nearly certain it never will be), then you can start the risk/reward analysis.

Don't do it - you'll be throwing away your money and taking on an unnecessary risk. We'll know in about a year if any of the other promising protocols pay off, and if they don't, we should also have a lot more data on this one.
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I'm not sure anyone on any board has had the procedure long enough to know. Maybe it's a big con job! We don't know. There ARE preliminary studies that were positive though, she says that regrowth is anywhere in the 10-30% range for people but I imagine there is huge variance overall depending at the state of your loss. The website/news presents us with:

The authors (Drs. Perez-Meza, Ziering, Sforza, Ball, Krishna and Daniels) performed a single scalp injection of Kerastem’s regenerative cell enriched adipose tissue in 9 healthy hair loss patients, and a total of 6 patients were followed for a period of six months using global photography and macrophotography with the Handyscope and Trichoscale Pro software used to quantify hair growth. The authors reported a 100% patient response rate to the Kerastem Therapy at 6-months and in patients with early stage hair loss, the percentage increase in hair count/density was a mean difference of 17% (p = 0.02). In males with early grade loss, an average 29% increase (p=0.057) in hair count/hair density with a mean difference of 40 hairs per square centimeter was observed.
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But again, the sample is small. That's why they are doing an FDA clinical study, and probably why they are pretty honest about it not being a miracle necessarily. We'll all find out together I suppose. Ultimately live is a bunch of risks, I will be very upset if I wasted $5000 USD, but if it stabilizes my hair and even better gives some regrowth it will be well worth it for me personally.

Mr White said:
What do you mean exactly?

Can anyone please describe the Kerastem procedure? How long does it take, how painful is it, how many doctors/nurses are involved and what do they do exactly and, most importantly, when can you expect to see some results? I thought this consisted of removing fat from the belly and injecting it into the scalp. Surely it is much less painful and less complicated than a hair transplant...
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The procedure puts you under, at least I don't remember anything about it so if I wasn't under then I was so doped up as to not remember much beyond them starting… but

1) Katarina says: "show me your fat!" and tells you where she's going to perform liposuction (I had two about three inches below my belly button equal distance apart kind of flanking my crotch, and then another at the top of my belly button as I think they had to go in multiple places to find fat)

2) They take a blood sample, probably to find any hints as to your overall health and maybe warnings on whether surgery is dangerous

3) You go and shower to be clean for surgery

4) Walk to the surgery auditorium in underwear and a robe, lay down on a table, have "holy sh*t what am I doing" moment

5) yolo

6) Anesthesiologist pumps you full of bliss as the Dr. and Nurse (3 people total) take your mind off of things

7) ???

8) Nurse eventually wakes you up, feeling like you got hit by a bus, head thumping with a torso brace on

9) She asks you what you want to eat, explaining the limitations of the city? I went ultimately with pizza which is the most comforting food I can think of… though she didn't seem to take my desire to eat actual Serbian dishes seriously for some reason. Maybe a lot of people complain?

10) Pass the f*** out again, its pretty easy… in the morning have another talk w/ the Doctor and spend most of the morning in and out of sleeping and watching TV and eventually eating breakfast, then eventually go to the hotel with a bag full of antibiotics, painkiller (didn't really use it after the first few days, not sure how useful it was in the end), and some stuff to help with bruising

On the bruising, YMMV. I never had a hair transplant so I can't compare, but liposuction is certainly not pain-free that's for sure.

Hopefully in 6 months, I'll be less sad.
 
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jayeffbee

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jo-achim said:
scam is probably not the right word for this treatment. we know there are studies for PRP and fat cell releasing growth factors which indicate some positive effect on hair. BUT the effects are so minimal and not long-lasting, in most cases not even noticeable at all. and the treatment costs a fortune. it's really just a modern form of PRP? it's basically useless.
show me one real person who can tell us about good results from a PRP or kerastem-like treatment alone? there are no real results out there.
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Again, I think everyone whose taken the plunge probably knows its a bit of a long shot. Ultimately, the studies take years and for those this is supposed to help, waiting around has its costs. From my understanding, it's aiming to beat, but probably on the level of effectiveness of Propecia/Minoxidil (hopefully when people respond well) but all the reading says variability is just as high (I think the range for male responding was like 11% - 49% in one of the studies in this thread). $5000 is a gamble, taking finasteride for 10 years is a gamble. Life is about cost/benefit analysis.

The main downside, cost of travel and being out a large chunk of cash… but we KNOW other things certainly don't work, and this does have a reasonable amount of corporate sponsorship for the study which is IMO only a good sign. They don't make bones about the size of the market opportunity and downsides of the existing treatments, and I don't think that the messaging about "early hair loss" has been unclear, so I'm hopeful.

I wish that the website wasn't originally built 100% in Javascript so I could use the Internet Wayback machine to see how their message has changed over the years, in the end maybe you're right, but some of us don't have a lot of other options either.
 
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Greybeer

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Well said, I've actually seen a few before and after pictures that are pretty groundbreaking given the state of the research. This definitely has greatly repaired a lot of peoples hair! At the same time other people didn't respond as substantially.
 
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JustAnotherNoob

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I'd like to at least see some response from @lynney45 -- you kinda went AWOL dude! You're coming up on 4 months now, have you seen anything positive? Has shedding still stopped completely?

@Vincent777 Can you ping him on Skype and have him look at this thread? I really want to book my trip for mid-september but i'm hoping to hear a glimmer of hope from Lynney or Christopher1 on hairsite (who also went AWOL).
 
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jayeffbee

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jayeffbee said:
Oye, just seeing my head from the back for the first time and I don't know how that video made it look so full, but back to the feeling of no control and thinking about trying finasteride again for the moment.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2dwe0aweagatkux/Bald-spot-1.jpg?dl=0

:( Guessing nothing is going to fill that up at this point
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Actually guys, I'm wondering if this is some kind of alopecia areata, perhaps from the procedure?

I don't recall having it before to be honest, trying to ask some others if they ever noticed that before. I hadn't quite inspected my scalp before. Going to send this to my dermatologist… but if there was going to be something to cause an immune response I can't think of much else besides the surgery
 
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jayeffbee

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Vincent777 said:
You should email Belprime and ask them.
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Yup did that already. Also contacted my dermatologist. He's probably going to look at me like I'm an idiot when I tell him what I did. Hopefully its just temporary. I haven't really ever looked closely there but really don't remember it and I know the was certainly swelling there after he procedure, just hoping if it is related it's not from scaring and permanent :(:(:(
 
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hilbert

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jayeffbee said:
Yup did that already. Also contacted my dermatologist. He's probably going to look at me like I'm an idiot when I tell him what I did. Hopefully its just temporary. I haven't really ever looked closely there but really don't remember it and I know the was certainly swelling there after he procedure, just hoping if it is related it's not from scaring and permanent :(:(:(
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where were your cannula insertion points?
 
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onelargehairplease

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Quick question, would dht affect the treated area later on, say for instance you started balding at 25 would the treatment last for 25 years until dht started to affect the follicles again. Would dht affect the treated area at all? what if started taking anabolic steroids how would this change things?
 
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charlie76761

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jayeffbee said:
Oye, just seeing my head from the back for the first time and I don't know how that video made it look so full, but back to the feeling of no control and thinking about trying finasteride again for the moment.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2dwe0aweagatkux/Bald-spot-1.jpg?dl=0

:( Guessing nothing is going to fill that up at this point
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Jayeffbee - Ouch - really sorry to see that - hope it turns around asap


Have surgery booked on Friday at Belgrade (!). What to do... really put off by this development

Any view or advice? Do you know where they applied the cannula? Do please let me know of any what you're told by the clinic

Any one else who has had the surgery - what are your thoughts?

Thanks
 
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jayeffbee

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hilbert said:
where were your cannula insertion points?
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Asking. The response to my photo was:

We haven’t had patients that had such a problem after this treatment. It looks like localised hair loss, but it needs further investigation to be diagnosed as Alopecia Areata. Alopecia Areata is an autoimmune disease that attacks hair follicle in different way than Alopecia Androgenetica, and it needs more complex approach and treatment. It can happen as a result of a stress and usually is reversible, but to be sure it is better to consult a specialist.
We also immediately consulted other doctors that are doing this kind of treatment and by now, nobody also had patients who referred similar problems.

We are very concerned about you, please let us know if anything changes.

Also, you can count on our assistance if you need any help.
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So... Waiting for a dermatology appointment to get back to me
 
Swoop

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jayeffbee

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Swoop said:
Seems to be Telogen Effluvium. Or AA. Doesn't look like typical Androgenetic Alopecia.
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So talking with a few medical friends they say that anesthesia itself can cause permanent loss, confirmed online a bit:

You seem to have a smart PA. General anesthesia is very shocking to the body. Here are the suspected reason for hair loss after receiving general anesthesia:

  1. Hair growth is dependent on cell division which is interfered with while under general anesthesia. Without the necessary and required frequent cell division, hair follicles lack the nutrients necessary for production;
  2. Additionally, while under anesthesia for longer periods of time, the patient's head may be in a fixed position causing pressure and reducing blood supply to hair follicles;
  3. Thirdly, blood loss during surgery causes the body to divert blood to vital organs while reducing it to more non-essential areas such as hair follicles;
The good news is that normal hair growth should be restored within 3 months of surgery.
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http://answers.webmd.com/answers/5068779/does-anesthesia-cause-hair-loss

Going to pummel it with Rogaine in the meantime
 
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jayeffbee

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Vincent777 said:
Honestly, it looks like bad Photoshop to me. Not that I think you photoshopped your bald spot but something is strange about it. Can you post more photos of it?
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Dude I assure you the only reason it looks sh*t is because I'm using the selfie camera looking into a bathroom mirror at the back of my head. I have a dropbox folder full I'll link you when u get home, the app doesn't seem to let me get the share link for it
 
Blackber

Blackber

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