Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[Yar]

The adrenal glands don't produce enough testosterone to lead to baldness... I hate it when people speak upon the adrenal glands producing testosterone as if that's actually going to cause issues in terms of hair loss and acne.

It is possible that after the Orchus, the adrenal glands will work for two. So the male genetics are arranged.

 

[jenny-death]

i will have to disagree, castrated men have almost zero testosterone (97% less) but 70% less dht!?? it doesnt make sense to me since dht is coming from the T conversion and we dnt have testosterone to be converted in the first place, but i have seen how female dht range is 70% lower than men, it makes sense now since the percentage of reduction is not really accurate in measuring the reduction and 70% lower dht is still very low as in value, in fact it is the female range,so technically speaking, taking finastride will lower the dht level to female range but will leave the T untouched or even higher than before, so the excess T will convert to free T and bind to damage the hair thats why finastride is weak because T IS THE ENEMY

DHT is not only produced from the conversion from gonadal testosterone, but also in the adrenal gland derived from a androstenedione pathway. This is why dutasteride and finasteride are especially important despite taking strong anti-androgens.

There is something similar in prostate cancer patients. Where its believed there are mutations in a gene expression that causes an increase in DHT production, specifically from the adrenal gland. These patients are usually on anti-androgens such as cypro, bical and dutasteride, but their DHT still increases locally in tumors.

Here's a source if you want to read more.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3367713/

"Chang et al. show that, contrary to widely held assumptions, the dominant pathway to DHT synthesis does not involve testosterone as a precursor to DHT, but instead involves the conversion of Δ4-androstenedione (AD) to 5α-dione (AD→5α-dione→DHT) by the steroid-5α-reductase isoenzyme 1 (SRD5A1)."

 

[baba_yaga]

136ng/dl is very high to see results, you should aim for a value that is lower than 20ng/dl, castration range is below 20ng/dl, female range is 20-40ng/dl, if bica is not enough to lower T consider adding some CPA it help but please monitor your lab values they help in indicating what gonna work

Ikarus takes duta and bica. Bica increases testosterone by 2-3x and duta 100% (i think). It isnt about his level of hormones, it is about the blocking of receptors by bica. Estradiol should fight test levels, but I dont have enough knowledge on it.

DHT is not only produced from the conversion from gonadal testosterone, but also in the adrenal gland derived from a androstenedione pathway. This is why dutasteride and finasteride are especially important despite taking strong anti-androgens.


View attachment 123499

There is something similar in prostate cancer patients. Where its believed there are mutations in a gene expression that causes an increase in DHT production, specifically from the adrenal gland. These patients are usually on anti-androgens such as cypro, bical and dutasteride, but their DHT still increases locally in tumors.

Here's a source if you want to read more.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3367713/

"Chang et al. show that, contrary to widely held assumptions, the dominant pathway to DHT synthesis does not involve testosterone as a precursor to DHT, but instead involves the conversion of Δ4-androstenedione (AD) to 5α-dione (AD→5α-dione→DHT) by the steroid-5α-reductase isoenzyme 1 (SRD5A1)."

This could explain why people claim castrated men still have DHT in their system.

 

[Sonolmn98]

DHT is not only produced from the conversion from gonadal testosterone, but also in the adrenal gland derived from a androstenedione pathway.


View attachment 123499

There is something similar in prostate cancer patients. Where its believed there are mutations in a gene expression that causes an increase in DHT production, specifically from the adrenal gland. These patients are usually on anti-androgens such as cypro, bical and dutasteride, but their DHT still increases locally in tumors.

Here's a source if you want to read more.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3367713/

"Chang et al. show that, contrary to widely held assumptions, the dominant pathway to DHT synthesis does not involve testosterone as a precursor to DHT, but instead involves the conversion of Δ4-androstenedione (AD) to 5α-dione (AD→5α-dione→DHT) by the steroid-5α-reductase isoenzyme 1 (SRD5A1)."

i see, make sense now, thanks for sharing, but i think the ultimate goal is to get into the female range that include having T and DHT of a female and estrodial and progesterone to female range, if a female have 70% less dht but way less testosterone that lets replicate that to stay on the safe route

 

[Ikarus]

136ng/dl is very high to see results, you should aim for a value that is lower than 20ng/dl, castration range is below 20ng/dl, female range is 20-40ng/dl, if bica is not enough to lower T consider adding some CPA it help but please monitor your lab values they help in indicating what gonna work

Bicalutamide doesn’t lower T; it slightly raises it. The main reason why I’m not too concerned about the current level of my testosterone is because it’s being blocked significantly by bicalutamide. As long as my testosterone levels are insignificant enough, if I ever decided to stop bicalutamide and pursue an orchiectomy, I shouldn’t have any of the potential issues which could occur (e.g. further balding, masculinisation). Theoretically, I should have little to no testosterone which is effecting my body since bicalutamide is blocking it. I believe this is occurring since I am experiencing symptoms seen within those who are deficient in androgens. I was not experiencing these symptoms on spironolactone; spironolactone barely had an effect on sebum production, which is a main factor when it comes to spotting whether androgens are having an effect on the body. Especially since excessive sebum production appears to be an androgen dependant issue. I am just hoping to the great skies above that this leads to success...

 

[Sonolmn98]

Me too! I am hoping to get an orchiectomy... Testosterone is making me become mentally unstable, and makes me go through severe episodes of derealisation... I am hoping my endocrinologist can at least refer me to a gender specialist, where they can let me have an orchiectomy... Because at this rate, I might end up doing a surgical procedure at home I didn't want it to get to that point, but I don't feel like I can live life properly knowing if I ever get lost in a jungle or kidnapped, I won't have my medications and I will go bald!!!

when you get castrated, you have to take high doses of estrodial, but if you are stuck in a jungle and stop estrodial, you wont go bald because your androgens are still nuked for your whole life, but you will feel like sh*t and your bones will break from lack of estrogen ( sex hormones) although i only started to see regrowth after adding oral estrodial, the orchectomy was enough to freeze my baldness and increase my density to some point but no regrowth was seen

 

[Sonolmn98]

Bicalutamide doesn’t lower T; it slightly raises it. The main reason why I’m not too concerned about the current level of my testosterone is because it’s being blocked significantly by bicalutamide. As long as my testosterone levels are insignificant enough, if I ever decided to stop bicalutamide and pursue an orchiectomy, I shouldn’t have any of the potential issues which could occur (e.g. further balding, masculinisation). Theoretically, I should have little to no testosterone which is effecting my body since bicalutamide is blocking it. I believe this is occurring since I am experiencing symptoms seen within those who are deficient in androgens. I was not experiencing these symptoms on spironolactone; spironolactone barely had an effect on sebum production, which is a main factor when it comes to spotting whether androgens are having an effect on the body. Especially since excessive sebum production appears to be an androgen dependant issue. I am just hoping to the great skies above that this leads to success...

will stopping bica after the orchiectomy cause androgen receptors upregulation? since you are blocking the receptors and then stoping the drug?

 

[Ikarus]

DHT is not only produced from the conversion from gonadal testosterone, but also in the adrenal gland derived from a androstenedione pathway. This is why dutasteride and finasteride are especially important despite taking strong anti-androgens.


View attachment 123499

There is something similar in prostate cancer patients. Where its believed there are mutations in a gene expression that causes an increase in DHT production, specifically from the adrenal gland. These patients are usually on anti-androgens such as cypro, bical and dutasteride, but their DHT still increases locally in tumors.

Here's a source if you want to read more.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3367713/

"Chang et al. show that, contrary to widely held assumptions, the dominant pathway to DHT synthesis does not involve testosterone as a precursor to DHT, but instead involves the conversion of Δ4-androstenedione (AD) to 5α-dione (AD→5α-dione→DHT) by the steroid-5α-reductase isoenzyme 1 (SRD5A1)."

We do not have prostate cancer; that insignificant amount of testosterone most likely won’t have an effect on our bodies since we are doing this for hair loss, unless we have a supreme sensitivity to the effects of androgens. I greatly doubt that a small amount of DHT will have that great of an effect on our hair, especially since testosterone levels are almost nullified.

 

[Ikarus]

will stopping bica after the orchiectomy cause androgen receptors upregulation? since you are blocking the receptors and then stoping the drug?

No, because my testosterone levels are only 136 ng/dL. That’s still significantly below the normal testosterone levels within males. If I took bicalutamide alone, and my testosterone levels ended up being something like 1360 ng/dL, that’s when issues will occur...

 

[Ikarus]

when you get castrated, you have to take high doses of estrodial, but if you are stuck in a jungle and stop estrodial, you wont go bald because your androgens are still nuked for your whole life, but you will feel like sh*t and your bones will break from lack of estrogen ( sex hormones) although i only started to see regrowth after adding oral estrodial, the orchectomy was enough to freeze my baldness and increase my density to some point but no regrowth was seen

That’s what I want; I don’t want to worry about hair loss anymore. Taking E for the rest of my life isn’t an issue, as long as the actual issue (androgens) are dealt with.

 

[jenny-death]

Another interesting thing I found when looking up this stuff in some books (medical books aren't cheap by the way).

Notice that SRD5A1, SRD5A2 and SRD5A3 (5ar) all lead DHT production despite different pathways. I'm not an endocrinologist so please take whatever I post with a grain of salt. Drugs like finasteride only block type 2 and 3. Of course these things might not be related at all, but finasteride seems to work for a large amount of people anyway, I may not even be reading this flowchart correctly and I certainly couldn't be able to explain it. I believe this stuff is a lot more in-depth than what people might usually think, doctors spend a decade learning these things.

 

[Sonolmn98]

That’s what I want; I don’t want to worry about hair loss anymore. Taking E for the rest of my life isn’t an issue, as long as the actual issue (androgens) are dealt with.

if you ever became too desperate for a way out, try alcohol injections they are safe and almost painless i had many complications because i used razor and acid injections, alcohol will slowly kill the testicles with zero bleeding or even real pain but the process take 6 months to shut them down for good, and then a urologist will take them out safely if u play the pain card

 

[Ikarus]

if you ever became too desperate for a way out, try alcohol injections they are safe and almost painless i had many complications because i used razor and acid injections, alcohol will slowly kill the testicles with zero bleeding or even real pain but the process take 6 months to shut them down for good, and then a urologist will take them out safely if u play the pain card

That sounds scary; I wouldn't even know where to inject them... I am thinking of casually discussing injecting my testicles with alcohol to my endocrinologist, in hopes he refers me to a surgeon! I hate testosterone, grr...

 

[Sonolmn98]

lol, this guy shared my story iam basically fucked, luckily he doesnt have many subscribers! the story starts at 5:15

 

[Ikarus]

lol, this guy shared my story iam basically fucked, luckily he doesnt have many subscribers! the story starts at 5:15

I have seen this person before... I am quite shocked that he has shared your story! I wonder if he has an account on gourmetstylewellness.com, because it's weird that he found your story...

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

I have seen this person before... I am quite shocked that he has shared your story! I wonder if he has an account on gourmetstylewellness.com, because it's weird that he found your story...

I have already seen it but didn't report it here.

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

[QUOTE = "Sonolmn98, должность: 1814055, член: 139571"] lol Вы напоминаете о [USER = 139582] @Father_of_Shiseido [/ USER], параноик, но без фактической потери волос, серьезно относящихся к эстрогену и АА как вариант, вау! прыгайте на datsatsride в течение нескольких месяцев, а затем судите сами [/ QUOTE]

cpa or spironolactone + estradiol

I don't know Russian.

 

[baba_yaga]

We do not have prostate cancer; that insignificant amount of testosterone most likely won’t have an effect on our bodies since we are doing this for hair loss, unless we have a supreme sensitivity to the effects of androgens. I greatly doubt that a small amount of DHT will have that great of an effect on our hair, especially since testosterone levels are almost nullified.

Doesnt bicalutamide increase test levels by 2-3 times? Stopping bica in this case would disintegerate your hair follicles.

 

[baba_yaga]

if you ever became too desperate for a way out, try alcohol injections they are safe and almost painless i had many complications because i used razor and acid injections, alcohol will slowly kill the testicles with zero bleeding or even real pain but the process take 6 months to shut them down for good, and then a urologist will take them out safely if u play the pain card

Taking bicalutamide should in theory stop this disease in almost every case. Ikarus has stopped his hair loss for sure with his regimen. In a few years time hair loss wont even be at the back of his mind all the time.

I really think bica is the most effective drug out there, and the safest in terms of sexual sides. What a miracle drug! Only if I can get it easily :/

 

[Ikarus]

Doesnt bicalutamide increase test levels by 2-3 times? Stopping bica in this case would disintegerate your hair follicles.

Stopping bicalutamide if you are not taking estrogen is basically nuking your hair follicles. You might as well wax every single hair follicle off your head, since your testosterone levels will be greatly elevated. Bicalutamide doesn't increase your sensitivity to androgens, and there isn't proof of that whatsoever.