CBS Evening News tommorow...balding cure

[gnome]

I think TheMoose's post is a reality check to all of us.... I havent read all 15+ pages of posts but where da hell is this 2008 date for HM coming from?!?!?

Is it just speculation or is there some kind of new breakthrough that is giving us this promising new date???

I hope to God just like the rest of us that HM would come out by 2008 but Phase II trials havent even started yet...

Am I missing something or WTF are we getting all happy about... :scratch:

I don't really know as I haven't followed the research. I think all the commotion in this thread stems mainly from the fact that we found out that the competitior to intercytex, (a company which I've forgotten the name of, A-something. anderan?) who collectively was perceived to have fallen way behind in the race no longer appears to, and as such it seems there will be some healthy competition towards the finish line. This bodes very well for the consumer as that might spur people to kick it up a notch and work harder to get it out quicker. Whoever gets it out first basically wins I guess.
The second reason is that Bosley apparently updated their page saying that they're pushing towards a commercial 2008 release straight after trials. However, the originator of that news refers to http://www.bosley.com/news which doesn't seem to carry that kind of information. All I can see is a bunch of fluff articles from 2004.

If anyone can find a reliable statement from Bosley pushing for a 2008 release then please present it.

 

[chewbaca]

Bosley may want to keep it a secret for the HM projected date because they were to give a tentative date, then their compettion will work harder and faster to bring their product out.

 

[RTJBJ]

http://www.bosley.com/news/story_422.php[/url]

 

[Guest]

I dont think this guy is that much after the $$ peoples...First off look @ his credentials.
http://www.newhair.com/info/doctor-rassman-cv.asp

SECONDLY this guy is 66...he's going to be retiring soon...you think he's really going to give a flying f*** about making more $$? He's made his $$ and wouldn't really push it further...I think he is giving sound advice, and we don't want to hear it BUT basically this will not be available for a while...Also this does classify as a "drug"...I cannot find his reply to it right now but I was reading it right now...the hair follicles that are replicated will be in the form of a medical soup that is to be reinjected into the scalp...this reinjection is what classifies it as a drug.

 

[gnome]

I dont think this guy is that much after the $$ peoples...First off look @ his credentials.
http://www.newhair.com/info/doctor-rassman-cv.asp

SECONDLY this guy is 66...he's going to be retiring soon...you think he's really going to give a flying f*** about making more $$? He's made his $$ and wouldn't really push it further...I think he is giving sound advice, and we don't want to hear it BUT basically this will not be available for a while...Also this does classify as a "drug"...I cannot find his reply to it right now but I was reading it right now...the hair follicles that are replicated will be in the form of a medical soup that is to be reinjected into the scalp...this reinjection is what classifies it as a drug.

I can't argue with you there as I don't know. There is also the potential that he just doesn't know the exact state of hair-cloning, as do few people. I'm not overly zealous about cloning or anything, other than wanting it to come out as soon as possible naturally, and I'll have no problem being stood corrected.

It was Nervx who claimed HM did not count as a drug so I'm just aping after what he said, he also put out the 2008 date in this quote:

"Bosely consultants are now giving a 2007-2008 release time frame for HM. The plan is straight to market after trials end. Since HM isn't a drug it can bypass a lot of the regulatory/licensing processes and speed things up."

This was in thread-page number 3 I think. Possibly 4, of this thread. A more elaborate explanation on what constitutes a drug versus a procedure under FDA would be most appreciated. There is also the possibility that something goes wrong and the whole thing doesn't see day light.

Allthough now that I think about it, there was another thread somewhere on this forum that spoke of a recent update that Intercytex did to their homepage, and in a letter-exchange the projected date was to be 2009, which is more specifik than the 5-10 years mantra.
Even if it comes out in 2009 it will be welcomed. Just another year, surely we can live with that. Personally I find it somewhat unrealistic to hope that it will be commercially available anytime in 2007. You need time to make it trully available as well, including building facilities and training people and whatnot.

 

[DaSand]

I have realized it's not going to be out until 2008. I have spoken with Bosley consultants online about this before and they said probably 2008.

I hope nothing goes wrong, but oh well there is life without hair hopefully.

Will other places in the country and the world be getting this procedure for this facility besides Bosley and Intercytex? nervx? gnome?

I just hope it's a good price so I can get it when I'm working.

 

[newguy2006]

I don't give a damn what the price is. I just want my teenage hairline back at all costs.

 

[gnome]

I have realized it's not going to be out until 2008. I have spoken with Bosley consultants online about this before and they said probably 2008.

I hope nothing goes wrong, but oh well there is life without hair hopefully.

Will other places in the country and the world be getting this procedure for this facility besides Bosley and Intercytex? nervx? gnome?

I just hope it's a good price so I can get it when I'm working.

I have no idea, but from a business stand-point it would be absolutely foolish not to license it out, unless they're planning to start bosley-facilities world-wide. There's most likely much money to be made through licensing.

Allthough with the money you're already spending on a procedure, a well-planned trip would most likely not ruin you. Looking at the way hair transplant has spread across the world from wherever it originated, I doubt you're going to have to travel very far. People are born all over with bad hair genes, so every country is a guaranteed consumer-base.

EDIT: I checked intercytex home and this popped out for me: All Intercytex’ products are derived from unmodified, human cells.

Now I may be inexperienced in the medical lingo and whatnot, but would this not mean, if it's meant the way I think it is, that HM is as much a drug as hair transplant is? That the hair-follicle is not modified in any way, just made into more individual follicles than what you pluck from the scalp?

Would this not mean that there is zero chance of cancer to begin with, as it's just your own hair designated into growing into exacly that, hair and absolutely nothing else?

Allthough on second thought I don't understand exacly how it can be unmodified.. you take hairs and take whatever is in them and turn it into liquid and make more of that liquid. Well, I should stop speculating at this point as I have no idea what I'm talking about, just trying to give a suggestion on how it may not fall under the strict term of FDA drug.

A drug is usually, by default, "alien" to the body and may have unknown consequences when digested or otherwise absorbed. It sounds, in theory, that this kind of cloning is the opposite. It's something biologically identical and can only behave in one fashion unless you don't give it a strict enough protocol. Hopefully such a strict "biological protocol of behavior" is established in the proof of concept phase, phase 1. Then you make that succesful modification even more potent in phase 2 and continue that procedure in larger scale in phase 3.

I think that sounds about right. Thoughts? I mean, say that doctor is correct and it will be out in 2012-2015. Why do I keep hearing 2009 and 2010 if the FDA takes 15 years on average? Didn't intercytex start their testing in 2004?

 

[lithebod]

no matter who is correct and wether it is 2008/9 or whenever the positive thing to take away from this is the fact that Intercytex have actually stated that phase 2 trials will start in Q1 of 2006 (i.e. now) so we will actually know sometime in 2007 wether or not we are pinning our hopes on something that works or not - if this proves to be the case then using current methods until the phase 3 trial plays out is something I can certainly live with.

 

[EasyEd]

I realized nobody here is completely familiar with exactly how the procedure works, but do you think this is the type of thing you can have done and go to work the following week or is it something that will keep you at home for a while? Any ideas?

 

[nervx]

I was just building on what people like nervx seems to say, that there are a few different players in the race to get HM out commercially but whichever suceeds, for some reason Bosley gets to call the shots on how it will be presented, like the hair transplant+HM combo. Why this is I don't know, I'm guessing that they've been sneaky and put in a lot of money all over.
Don't take my word for it, cause I have *no* idea how it actually works.

That's basically the idea. Bosely is the bank for intercytex and anderans so they get first dibs at pushing HM to market.

Also, I think if HM when it comes out, *needs* hair transplant then it might be seen as somewhat of a failiure. I thought the whole point of developing it was primarily to get a good amount of healthy strong hair. My logic says it's all a bunch of bullshit that HM would need hair transplant; that would only apply if HM made inferior hair and in that case it wouldn't be used anyway.

HM does not need a hair transplant. It's being tested and developed as stand alone procedure it's just bosely that wants to offer it as a combo deal.

based on an interview with Washenik that i read, i believe they have plans to license the procedure out, so you could probably go to any transplant surgeon for hm. and if they don't, i'm sure that guys like shapiro will either go get a job at bosley or somehow become affiliated with them, or else they'd be out of a job themselves.

Yeah licensing was mentioned but there are no details on their plans yet.

Sorry boys..I hate to do this, but what I came across is going to blow a hole in our ship....check this link out

http://www.baldingblog.com/2006/04/05/i ... follow-up/

Rassman is known as Assman in the HM community. He's a hair transplant surgeon and is very much against anything HM. He's been weeded out and banned on various forums for bad mouthing a whole bunch of stuff and promoting his hair transplant.

I think TheMoose's post is a reality check to all of us.... I havent read all 15+ pages of posts but where da hell is this 2008 date for HM coming from?!?!?

Bosely is giving 2008 as the launch date. This is the date given by people high up in the company. Anderans is also aiming for a commercial product ready in 2007. Intercytex was aiming for 2008/09 but with anderans back in the picture it's possible they could speed things up.

This was in thread-page number 3 I think. Possibly 4, of this thread. A more elaborate explanation on what constitutes a drug versus a procedure under FDA would be most appreciated. There is also the possibility that something goes wrong and the whole thing doesn't see day light.

With HM your taking some of yourself, growing more of it and then putting it back into you. There's no foreign substances to mess things up with. That's why FDA trials don't take as long for stuff like HM as they do for drug testing.

I realized nobody here is completely familiar with exactly how the procedure works, but do you think this is the type of thing you can have done and go to work the following week or is it something that will keep you at home for a while? Any ideas?

You go in and they'll take a small biopsy from you which takes about 30 minutes. From there they send the biopsy away, multiply the cells and two weeks later you go back to get injections. Takes about 2 hours. The whole thing is to be done under local anaesthetic and is supposed to be fairly painless. It's no where near as bad as a hair transplant. So yeah you should be able to go back to work the next week.

Oh and i keep forgetting to mention this but i have a feeling you'll have to stop your hair meds for about 6 months before going for HM.

 

[Lopfraze]

You know nervx, if you keep posting positive stuff like this, then sooner or later I'm gonna want to have your babies!!!

Your posts cheer me up no end!

 

[stax]

nervx, great and thanks for the positive info its appreciated!

Do you know how big the scar would be and do you know if they can clone as many hairs as you need from one Biopsy?

 

[nervx]

Do you know how big the scar would be and do you know if they can clone as many hairs as you need from one Biopsy?

Scar size would depend on the density of your hair as they take about 120 hairs but it should be very small and hard to notice. As for the biopsy you only need to get it done once.

 

[markelbentley]

nervx=Ken washenik...

 

[stax]

nervx, thanks for the reply thats very encouraging to hear? How he hell did you get all this detailed info?

Also for the hairline do you think they would have it perfected by the time they release HM or would you have to get FUE? The thing is i want to drop the drugs and pain in the *** topicals and just keep getting injections over my existing hair every few months untill all my hair isnt prone to loss anymore. Would HM look natural and would it regrow your hair like you were born with? Thanks!

 

[gnome]

Bosely is giving 2008 as the launch date. This is the date given by people high up in the company. Anderans is also aiming for a commercial product ready in 2007. Intercytex was aiming for 2008/09 but with anderans back in the picture it's possible they could speed things up.

I'm wondering, how can we get an increase in development speed if both these companies are funded and partially owned by Bosley? Wouldn't we need a completly new, second player? This is unlikely at this stage, Bosley has probably cornered most of the market, but I don't see how you get economical competition without independant teams.

All this sounds great cept for the part of this being owned by one big company with a, as I take it, pretty bad reputation in the hairloss community. I'm still sour over the hair transplant+HM combo as I fear without competition they can potentially do that for years. You know, just cause'.


EDIT: I'm also wondering, what's up with stopping your hair-meds 6 months prior to treatment? Is this to give the surgeon a chance to clearly see your pattern so he can take special care to add density there cause that hair will fall off soon? It sounds odd, people loose hair in a variety of time. It actually makes no sense, if you wanted to replace your sensitive hair you could just tell them to inject an unnatural amount of hair and then stop taking meds and in time the sensitive hair will fall out and you'll end up with a more normal hair-count. A seamless transition kind of.

Regardless of what meds you're using, it's not too hard to see the general pattern of hairloss in people, under light and in different angles you can fairly clearly see what hair-regions are weaker than the sides or the neck.

 

[Apoc]

Stoping the meds will probably help with bad hair falling out and multiplication hair taking root better.

 

[nervx]

nervx, thanks for the reply thats very encouraging to hear? How he hell did you get all this detailed info?

I've been following HM for a few years and check for new news almost daily.

Also for the hairline do you think they would have it perfected by the time they release HM or would you have to get FUE?

Direction isn't supposed to be an issue anymore so the hairline shouldn't be a problem.

The thing is i want to drop the drugs and pain in the *** topicals and just keep getting injections over my existing hair every few months untill all my hair isnt prone to loss anymore. Would HM look natural and would it regrow your hair like you were born with? Thanks!

The HM hair should look like normal hair and yes i would expect everyone to drop the drugs and topicals after getting HM. No point in taking drugs when there's no point to use them anymore.

I'm wondering, how can we get an increase in development speed if both these companies are funded and partially owned by Bosley? Wouldn't we need a completly new, second player?

They have a business deal with bosely but they aren't owned by them.

I'm also wondering, what's up with stopping your hair-meds 6 months prior to treatment? Is this to give the surgeon a chance to clearly see your pattern so he can take special care to add density there cause that hair will fall off soon?

It's not a fact that you will have to stop only my guess that you would. Mainly to make sure the donar hairs are the best possible. I know finasteride/dutasteride/etc is mainly for the top of the head but i wouldn't doubt it has some slight changes to the back and sides.

 

[stax]

nervx i think i love you man thanks for that POSITIVE info!!!