CBS Evening News tommorow...balding cure

DaSand

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I'm sorry gnome I misunderstood what you were saying about the cost.

I just hope whoever gets this procedure has to realize most of the people that need it don't always make $50,000 a year. You are right gnome about the one who will have trouble paying for it are the 20-somethings that need it the most

I would rather shave my head like you said than pay $10,000 for this if that's going to be the price.

I'd be fine paying $2000-$3000 though I doubt that will happen. But you never know.

I still think all of us balding guys should come together and do some campaign to get this procedure affordable for everyone. Just my opinion.
 

Apoc

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I think you will pay whatever it costs once your hairloss gets bad enough :lol: . I understand that people don't want to pay 40.000 on a car because you can do a lot of things that make you feel better than a sports car (depends on a person ofcourse). But paying 8-15k for a HM does not seem a lot to me if it gives you your youth and looks back.
 

JustBreathe

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What exactly do you think a 'decent HM' would be?
 

hairhaircomeagain

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I am thinking it will be atlease 10K. I have a plan to save that much. May help you guys too. Put 10 bucks everyday in a savings account or something. In 3 years ( which I think ll be the time for HM to come out) that ll be 10,950 dollars. If the procedure is more expensive, I ll finance it. Saving 10 bucks a day is much more easier than shelling out 10K, I think
 

Stokes

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There are so many things said haven't had time to read it all, but I have a comment about prices.

I really think that the starting price for HM will be high then it will come down. Its just like XBox, playstation etc. Always starts high to get all the people that want it first. Then prices will come down. Lets just hope that they (the companies) don't just care about the prices and care more about how we feel.
 

gnome

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Stokes said:
There are so many things said haven't had time to read it all, but I have a comment about prices.

I really think that the starting price for HM will be high then it will come down. Its just like XBox, playstation etc. Always starts high to get all the people that want it first. Then prices will come down. Lets just hope that they (the companies) don't just care about the prices and care more about how we feel.

Private companies never care how you feel. You're nothing to them, a mere blot in the paper-work. What they do care about is income over investment, and that's why I think my idea is way more sound. From what we've heard so far, HM costs a fraction compared to hair transplant. You need to differentiate HM from hair transplant to the laymen-customer. You'd undermine all other options of hair-fixin' if you offer it to a consumer-price of tops 3k for a full head of hair. So far I have seen NO counter-argument to my reasoning, other than "corporate-greed".

And just because you brought up Xboxes and playstations, I want to counter your argument with nintendo's stroke of genius in the upcoming console battle (I'll try to explain for those over 25 who have a real life).

Xbox 360 and Ps3 (the next iteration of consoles from Microsoft and Sony respectively) will be tricked out like sh*t and cost a fortune. Not only will they play hyper-realistic games, but also raise the dead and support cold fusion through standard 2.0 usb. Their business strategy is the tired old thing; upgrade hardware, which costs money and sell it to the customer for largely the same experience.

Xbox 360 and Ps3 are hair transplant. Their conceptual form, from their industrial design, input devices, gameplay and business philosophy regarding what the future of gaming will be like is the same as 20 years ago. So more of the same and goddamn expensive. This is now popularily called the red ocean strategy, in which you compete in the same arena as your opponents and try to trump eachother on basically the same parameters. Competition is fierce, and has to be since the products largely aim to do the same thing.

Nintendo will try blue ocean strategy this time around. Their input devie is completly different, prompting new types of games. Their online service will be free, their business philosophy in regards to gaming will put a serious focus on innovation, ie, get everyone to play, especially casual gamers. This will be aqured by new ideas spured on by the console design, as well a the announced low price compared to the "competition".

HM is nintendo done right. Blue ocean strategy is basically to look at the red ocean strategy, declare it retarded, and aim to create a market where there existed none before.

Case in point; by transfering money saved by the price reduction in "manifacturing" HM to the consumer, you can offer the service, which is different and in this case (and might be in nintendo's as well... ) superior to the tried and true crap. The low price, service-options and low invested time by both parties will attract both those in serious need (ie, the "hardcore" gamer of my analogy") as well as those in a percieved need of a little extra volume to their otherwise completly scalp-covering hair (the casual gamer of my analogy.)

Suddenly we got a crapload of a customer-base; both those who would otherwise spend obscene amount of money on hair transplant and pills and whatnot, as well as those only mildly interested in adding to their hair-count. case in point - a LOT of females and quite a lot of men with very mild thining.

Oh yeah, because you've now conquered the market through offering a better alternative, you've not only increased your customer base from those that would have wanted your service either way into also those that didn't even know they wanted it, you've now obliterated any competition. Why the hell would you spend your precious time and money with pills and lasers and crap if you can get a nice thick full head of hair for 2-3K?

ta-da. You now own the industry. And all this by giving the customer, both established and new, what they want for a low price.

I'm telling you, any kind of price-matching with hair transplant is retarded. It's bad business. And no, I will not pay whatever it costs. I, like many of me will not pay for something if we experience a feeling of being robbed blind. People have a cumulative, subconscious understanding of what things are actually worth, or should be worth, which I think is the leading factor in why Apple, despite offering in many people's eyes a superior product, cannot seem to hold more than at best 5% of the total market-share. It's a great, most likely superior solution at a perceivably over-priced cost. I would *love* to have an ibook and an imac. But for half the cost of the former, and a fourth of the latter I can get comparable pc products that will do the job - in a way. (hair transplant anyone?) Apple can, but clearly does not seem to have the goal of dominating the market. It is therefor sucessful in its own sphere by being an alternative. it saves on energy to, in a manner of selection, stand beside a less attractive person rather than doll yourself up and really go all out.
Apple profits by the constant clownery, and inevitable comparison, that windows offers.

feelings of injustice is an incredibly powerful emotion that all succesful business-operations are, or should be, aware of. You don't gain customers by waving a promise of low cost around for years and then financially urinating them in the face just cause you know you can get 2-3% to get a second morgage. Pardon my french.

One can only hope that Bosley picked up that incredibly hyped up Blue Ocean Strategy book and gotten a clue, like most of the updated business industry seems to have lately.

This is all an analogy and not about consoles nor computers in general. I have no favorism on any of the next-gen consoles other than my admiration for Nintendo's progressive thinking in a stale industry. It's just for illustrative purposes.

Blue Ocean, from what I know about it, has been very successful when implemented whole-heartedly. Nintendo's decision to fully embrace the strategy, and the outcome of it, has basically pulled nintendo from a (falsely) perceived grave into the hottest sh*t to drop in 2006. Everyone wants to play it, everyone wants to own it, and because of the price, everyone probably could. It's an absolute stroke of genius executed by thinking outside of the box.

I don't know how Bosley is run, but by basically having the patent for HM they'd be the dumbest company ever to have a clearly superior product, that's thankfully cheap, and to throw it right into the Red Ocean with the rest of the crap instead of letting it sail on the Blue Ocean.

By owning the patent they have two options: make a decent amount of money that corellates in profit as you slowly lower the price after a few years, or do you want to revolutionize this industry and make an obscene, absolutely disgusting amount of money and be the only thing that enters a person's mind when they think of hairloss?

I'm not a economist, I'm a college student with a schizophrenic mix of "majors" ranging from philosophy, sociology, psychology, history and journalism. Thus, I deal in broad ideas and not minute hair-splitting. I openly welcome discussion on this topic, as it is interesting both as food for thought and food for wallet and concerns us all.

For the record, I am absolutely positive it will be expensive and take a long time to reach a consumer-friendly regression-line. I don't know why, maybe I'm a pessimist in the hopes of being pleasantly surprised, or maybe I have a precognitive grudge against Bosley as a company.

Will Bosley pull this off, come 2008?
 

Wezz

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Stokes said:
There are so many things said haven't had time to read it all, but I have a comment about prices.

I really think that the starting price for HM will be high then it will come down. Its just like XBox, playstation etc. Always starts high to get all the people that want it first. Then prices will come down. Lets just hope that they (the companies) don't just care about the prices and care more about how we feel.

this is not xbox or gaming console, its a life changing thing and i dont think the price would go down that much, maybe couple hundered dollars in 5 years ... unless something big happens :hairy:
 

MidnightFlyer

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For the record, I am absolutely positive it will be expensive and take a long time to reach a consumer-friendly regression-line. I don't know why, maybe I'm a pessimist in the hopes of being pleasantly surprised, or maybe I have a precognitive grudge against Bosley as a company.

Will Bosley pull this off, come 2008?

Bosley has about $20,000 of my money, starting in the 70's - 90's.
I have 3/4 the hair I need, until the donor area was used up.

I hate Bosley, but I'll gladly give him another 10k to finish the job that he started 30 years ago.
 

powersam

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that was a very interesting post stokes, and makes complete sense. maybe you should send it off to Bosley an get their heads pointed in the right direction.

wezz i think you missed the point
 

News2

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Dr. Ken Washenik said in an interview that HM would most likely be slightly more expensive than a hair transplant. (He said that he didn't know exactly how much it would cost, but he thought it was gonna be more expensive than a hair transplant because of the lab work.) The figure he put on a hair transplant was $7500, so I guess that HM will set you back around $10'000.
 

gnome

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as stated, I think you're right. But I've heard conflicting reports from Intercytex claiming that it costs a fraction of hair transplant. Surely for them to say that, and taking in account that they would surely know the lab-costs, I think that's just retarded greed talking.

Unless the hairs need constant cradling, they basically take care of themself in the dish, multiplying up to a point. Then you inject it back into a patient. In a hair transplant you clog up 20 people's time, in what I can only imagine to be a severly laberous exercise of fiddling with little tiny hairs and moving them around.

I don't think they're going the blue ocean way. Bosley is going to do the tired old routine and be happy with what they can cram out of people with enough money. It's pretty sad, considering they have the opportunity to revolutionize the business in a real way, not the way journalists speak of in their puff-pieces.
I just can't help to feel we were all better off when intercytex was leading the bright future, from what I remember, they seemed much more adamant to change how business is done and they had to, they had to quickly recoup their losses. Now there is no such immediate pressure when they're under Bosley's wings. It's a shame really. The fact that you have to set aside 10k and even that you can, should not be a relief but a tragedy, knowing that about 7-8k are not needed to get the results you seek.
 

gnome

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PowerSam said:
that was a very interesting post stokes, and makes complete sense. maybe you should send it off to Bosley an get their heads pointed in the right direction.

wezz i think you missed the point

I doubt that's needed. Blue Ocean is all the rage right now, and if Bosley's PR/R&D/financial advisor-people haven't talked this over and proposed it then they're idiots. If a lowly College student without a single course taken in economics can sketch out a rough plan as the aformentioned, surely that can be done with more realistic and grounded material internally at Bosley. And probably already has.

It's probably not going to happen cause if it were, Bosley would have started already. Or maybe we'll see at the end of phase 2, starting phase 3. If they come out of the gate with a sh*t-load of interviews talking about revolutionizing the industry then you can bet it's going to be cheap. It might be too early to give such promises right now, so I'll give them that. Might be too early to judge them. However, if this was their strategy, they would have remained coy about the cost and not cite a hair transplant-esque price.

That's very bad news for young, struggling, mostly unemployed people like myself.

Sell it cheap and you get immediate free PR. You can bet most news-channels will tell of it. Not so if it they keep the hair transplant price-point, then it will most likely only air on select channels with a "look what vain older men spend their money on these-days"-kind of spin and not presented as the revolution it truly is.
To what extent news-media will pick up on it is essential for a product like this; you can bet people will start talking if cheap hair "cloning" drops out of the sky. Sometimes it's hard to imagine, but outside of this little forum-bubble, millions of balding people walk around worrying about their hair, only a small percent probably seek any more information other than their doctor or an occasional google.
Drop a HM bomb on them and they'll go nuts.
 

nervx

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Dr. Ken Washenik said in an interview that HM would most likely be slightly more expensive than a hair transplant. (He said that he didn't know exactly how much it would cost, but he thought it was gonna be more expensive than a hair transplant because of the lab work.) The figure he put on a hair transplant was $7500, so I guess that HM will set you back around $10'000.

That was from an old interview and doesn't reflect the current state/cost of HM. Back when he gave that estimate they were still basically trying to figure HM out and didn't know how everything would be handled. Intercytex claims it will be a good amount cheaper than a hair transplant and they were sharing lab research with ARI so it's likely their product will be priced in the same range.
 

DaSand

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That amount ($10,000) came from an article that was published in 2004, hopefully it will be a good price.

This thread really got big.

nervx, do you still think it will be out by 2008 or 2009?
 

luke77

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You guys are kidding yourselves if you think that it's going to be less expensive than a hair transplant. It will be at least as much, and possibly quite a bit more. Why? Because thousands and thousands of men are more than willing to pay $10,000+ for a procedure that will restore their hair. It's as simple as that. They've been working on this for years and years, and if they come out with a working procedure they deserve to make a shitload of money. That's capitalism for you.
 

Wezz

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everyone should work harder by now and enjoy a good hair in couple of years 8)
 

becksfan1986

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You'are all talking about HM as if it was coming. I wish I can share you optimistic point of view. I mean, we'are arguing about the price but it seems so far... I hope I'm wrong. I mean it's very hard to believe that it will come in a few years. Maybe it will but I don't want to wait all my life for something that may not come before two or three decades... Future will tell us
 

nervx

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becksfan1986 said:
You'are all talking about HM as if it was coming. I wish I can share you optimistic point of view. I mean, we'are arguing about the price but it seems so far... I hope I'm wrong. I mean it's very hard to believe that it will come in a few years. Maybe it will but I don't want to wait all my life for something that may not come before two or three decades... Future will tell us

It's going through FDA trials for a commercial release now. This isn't like 10 years ago where HM was nothing more than a distant dream, it is coming.

nervx, do you still think it will be out by 2008 or 2009?

yes
 
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