Slartibartfast
Senior Member
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Yeah that's what I was assuming. Just wondered if anyone had come across a study to back this up - specifically as far as Dutasteride is concerned.
Slarti
Slarti
Comprehensive list of dutasteride side effects -- pls. add
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Bismarck
Senior Member
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Why not just take GABA pills, as I mentioned earlier? They're cheap as hell, if you're keen on using finasteride and worried about central nervous system problems. However, as I mentioned, the reproductive endocrinologist that I correspond with mentioned that she's never heard of CNS issues with 1 mg/day of finasteride.
D.
D.
Bismarck
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drinkrum said:
Well, I have no idea whether GABA supplementaion has an effect on the GABA metabolism in the brain and absolutely no idea whether it could neutralize the negative effects of 5a-dehydropr. and allopregn.
This endocrinologist hasn't heard of such issues because they are not noticeable in most individuals. As already said, it is the long term deprivation of neuroprotective hormones I fear.
bis
Bismarck said:
Yes, taking GABA works in the brain. It's better to take it intravenously than orally, but orally still works in large enough doses (5 grams). Taking glutamine which is a precursor to GABA is thought to be better since it crosses the blood-brain barrier, whereas GABA has a hard time doing so. IMO, can't hurt to take both.
D.
P.S. I wouldn't discount what the endo has to say -- she knows her stuff. I'll send you her name and profile via PM.
Not really. Finasteride doesn't inhibit 100% of 5-AR II. Also, finasteride is not a suicide inhibitor of 5-AR II -- it is a competitive inhibitor. Increasing the competition for the same enzyme by increasing the substrate, progesterone, should increase ALLO concentrations somewhat. Second, the body may respond by increasing production of 5-AR II itself.
In the end, I don't think the body will be happy with decreased GABA and will probably find a way to increase it, if indeed it is reduced by finasteride at the 1 mg/day level, which in itself is doubtful at best.
D.
In the end, I don't think the body will be happy with decreased GABA and will probably find a way to increase it, if indeed it is reduced by finasteride at the 1 mg/day level, which in itself is doubtful at best.
D.
Bismarck said:
Yeah, but what dose of finasteride did they give to them? It was probably a large dose and they probably injected them with it. They might even have injected it somewhere close to or in their brain to make sure their experiments were feasible.
D.
Bismarck said:
Not really. 5 mg/day blocks more than 1 mg/day which blocks more than 0.2 mg/day. The difference may not be much, but it may be important.
Notice that if you saturate the body with finasteride, as they do with mice, there are more "complications". This is why they say finasteride at the 1 mg/day level is 750-times less than the no-effect on spermatogenesis dose in rhesus monkeys. At 750 mg/day and beyond, there appears to be some issues with finasteride affecting spermatogenesis. So, it is not so clear how dosage plays into this game.
D.
I dunno the entire mechanism for progesterone and its derivatives. Anyway, I ordered my GABA, L-glutamine, and acetyl-L-carnitine today. I think I am lowering my dose of finasteride from 1/6 ED to 1/4 EOD. The "threat" of losing all my hair doesn't concern me as much as when I was 18 years old, but it is still disconcerting to say the least. I still want my hair, don't get me wrong, but let's see how this lower does fares.
D.
D.
Interesting.
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Originally posted by: drinkrum
At the 1 mg/day level, finasteride does cross the blood-brain barrier, but is not known to interfere with the HPTA (hypothalamus-pituitary-testes axis).
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Oh, but I think it clearly DOES affect it! That's demonstrated by the fact that finasteride tends to increase not only testosterone, but also LH and FSH. It seems clear that DHT is a player in the feedback control of testosterone production by the HPTA.
Bryan
Quote
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Originally posted by: drinkrum
At the 1 mg/day level, finasteride does cross the blood-brain barrier, but is not known to interfere with the HPTA (hypothalamus-pituitary-testes axis).
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Oh, but I think it clearly DOES affect it! That's demonstrated by the fact that finasteride tends to increase not only testosterone, but also LH and FSH. It seems clear that DHT is a player in the feedback control of testosterone production by the HPTA.
Bryan
Red Rose said:
Finasteride at the 1 mg/day level does not affect testosterone in the long-term. There are some studies that claim otherwise, but the preponderence of them agree with my statement.
Read the 5-year Propecia report, it says, "As in all clinical studies with finasteride, a marked and persistent suppression of serum DHT levels was observed in finasteride-treated subjects, but this was not associated with significant changes in serum gonadotropins (LH and FSH). These data are consistent with previous data on the lack of effect of finasteride on the hypothalamic pituitary-gonadal axis in young men".
If you don't believe Merck, which may be wise seeing the Vioxx scandal, confer:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Citation
"Finasteride caused a significant decrease in serum dihydrotestosterone after 6 and 12 months, but no effect on serum testosterone."
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/conten ... t/75/2/484
"Basal DHT fell from 1.1 +/- 0.2 to 0.15 +/- 0.04 nmol/L after 28 days of finasteride treatment. A significant rise in baseline testosterone from 17.6 +/- 2.0 to 18.3 +/- 2.3 nmol/L was seen at 14 days (P = 0.046), but not at 28 days. No significant changes were seen in either basal or GnRH-stimulated gonadotropin levels on any day. We conclude that suppression of serum DHT levels with 5 mg finasteride daily in healthy young men has no discernible effect on serum gonadotropin levels."
I would post more sources, but I am knee-deep in work at the moment.
D.