Gadgetine

Darolutamide (odm-201), A Better Topical Than Enzalutamide?

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IdealForehead

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HairCook said:
Yeah, I would also love to have another topical anti-androgen that just kills all the dht locally to 99.99%. Then we probably would not have to look for a PGD2 antagonist either. Did you try some pgd2 inhibitor already?

Nonetheless, I am super curious to see your results!
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I believe there is no benefit to a pgd2 inhibitor if you have a strong topical antiandrogen and thus the androgen receptor is never triggered. Also topical desloratadine should block pgd2 release as well as numerous other inflammatory mediators.

I think it would be redundant in my topical and offer no significant benefits.

You'll never see my results because I won't post pics. Sorry - just not comfortable. But it's been pretty awesome to me so far. Temple points have advanced to their teenage level at their sharpest point. I see my juvenile hairline fuzzed in more every day. Closing in on a hard 1.5. The contour's already a 1.5 but there's still thinning to the early 2.

I'm still taking oral minoxidil at 2.5 mg twice daily which is probably helping a lot too.
 
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kawnshawn

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I've decided to jump on the Darolutamide bandwagon. I looked on Alibaba and couldn't find any suppliers. Does anyone have recommendations for a seller?
 
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Sanchez1234

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Just started daro in the new vehicle. My scale is not that sharp when putting 10mg in it but i think i had a little lesa than 0.1%. The tingling is minimal, i feel it a bit so it is the daro.

I will continue this and see what happens.
I am thinking of adding 7.5% since i didnt get sides on 7.5%ru.
 
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Jonnyyy

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Sanchez1234 said:
Just started daro in the new vehicle. My scale is not that sharp when putting 10mg in it but i think i had a little lesa than 0.1%. The tingling is minimal, i feel it a bit so it is the daro.

I will continue this and see what happens.
I am thinking of adding 7.5% since i didnt get sides on 7.5%ru.
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How long did it take you to feel the tingling?
 
K

kawnshawn

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IdealForehead said:
You're jumping on the bandwagon without reading the full thread? Bad idea. Take an hour or two and read it first.
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I've read bits and pieces of it. I'm the guy that did insane amounts of enzalutamide, so I know what I'm getting myself into. My only hope is that the affinity to binding to androgen receptors is better enough than enza that it will stop my shedding. Don't even care about regrowth at this point.
 
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IdealForehead

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kawnshawn said:
I've read bits and pieces of it. I'm the guy that did insane amounts of enzalutamide, so I know what I'm getting myself into. My only hope is that the affinity to binding to androgen receptors is better enough than enza that it will stop my shedding. Don't even care about regrowth at this point.
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Oh well in that case, definitely daro has stronger affinity. Affinities reviewed here:

https://www.gourmetstylewellness.com/intera...conversion-of-ru58841-to-darolutamide.109065/

After the first two months of telogen efluvium on strong antiandrogens and minoxidil topically plus orally I can say for my own part I can't remember a time in my entire life that was shedding less than I am now. Hardly anything comes out in the shower or when I am applying my topicals at all. It's strange really. I'm so used to so much coming out.

Contact info for Gang Luo is in the thread multiple places. Very nice man and very professional to deal with.
 
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Jonnyyy

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IdealForehead said:
Oh well in that case, definitely daro has stronger affinity. Affinities reviewed here:

https://www.gourmetstylewellness.com/intera...conversion-of-ru58841-to-darolutamide.109065/

After the first two months of telogen efluvium on strong antiandrogens and minoxidil topically plus orally I can say for my own part I can't remember a time in my entire life that was shedding less than I am now. Hardly anything comes out in the shower or when I am applying my topicals at all. It's strange really. I'm so used to so much coming out.

Contact info for Gang Luo is in the thread multiple places. Very nice man and very professional to deal with.
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Been on Daro for a few days now, shedding hasn't stopped, how long did it take yours to slow down?
 
ZenHead

ZenHead

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Jonnyyy said:
Surprisingly none, as soon as I applied I got every side on earth because of my anxiety but after a while I forgot I even applied it and everything was normal, so far so good.
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Thats what I like to hear! I noticed sides on RU within a day unfortunately which was very surprising and disappointing to me. Honestly I thought people reporting sides on RU were just hypochondriacs, but it can happen for sure. If daro doesn't give sides i might have to try it. Did Finasteride give you sides?
 
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Jonnyyy

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ZenHead said:
Thats what I like to hear! I noticed sides on RU within a day unfortunately which was very surprising and disappointing to me. Honestly I thought people reporting sides on RU were just hypochondriacs, but it can happen for sure. If daro doesn't give sides i might have to try it. Did Finasteride give you sides?
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Finasteride was intolerable for me, EXTREME fatigue and Brain fog, my libido increased but that's about it. I would sleep 14 hours a day and still be tired af, and when I was awake I felt out of it and just felt mentally ill.
 
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IdealForehead

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Jonnyyy said:
Been on Daro for a few days now, shedding hasn't stopped, how long did it take yours to slow down?
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A few days is nothing. Any effective treatment may trigger a telogen effluvium that may last up to 2 months. When I started aggressive treatments 2.5 months ago including minoxidil (both oral and topical), I triggered a massive telogen efluvium where I was shedding more than ever. The hairs that were mostly coming out were big, thick, healthy hairs. This is normal in a good response to the treatment.

I think an anti-androgen is less likely to stimulate a telogen effluvium than a growth stimulant like minoxidil. But still, the point is effluviums aren't always bad things however you get one. So even if your shedding INCREASES in the first 2 months of a treatment, you likely should not term it failure or a negative.

Furthermore, hair that has been critically damaged by androgens will not have the capacity to repair themselves in a week even if you castrate yourself. That hair was going to fall out regardless. If an anti-androgen works, it should start protecting hair going forward.

Finasteride/dutasteride hair trials found clinically significant improvements by 6 months out. I have had a much faster response and I can see blatant improvement in my hair contour and density after the last 2.5 months of aggressive treatment. But no one should assume this will be the case.

You are very young and I expect that you will actually have a very good regrowth if you get on an adequate regimen. But it will take months to know what's really happening. If it's working, what you should notice, in spite of increased shedding overall, is new and thicker vellus growth at the hairline, corners, and temples. Even if you shed like crazy, as long as you see new hairs clearly coming in, then you are winning.

That can be evident within a few weeks even. If you're not getting that, you might need to add oral minoxidil or up the anti-androgenic dose for full results. Your scalp should absolutely still have the regenerative capacity at your age. So watch for that, and if you don't see it, readjust.
 
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Jonnyyy

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IdealForehead said:
A few days is nothing. Any effective treatment may trigger a telogen effluvium that may last up to 2 months. When I started aggressive treatments 2.5 months ago including minoxidil (both oral and topical), I triggered a massive telogen efluvium where I was shedding more than ever. The hairs that were mostly coming out were big, thick, healthy hairs. This is normal in a good response to the treatment.

I think an anti-androgen is less likely to stimulate a telogen effluvium than a growth stimulant like minoxidil. But still, the point is effluviums aren't always bad things however you get one. So even if your shedding INCREASES in the first 2 months of a treatment, you likely should not term it failure or a negative.

Furthermore, hair that has been critically damaged by androgens will not have the capacity to repair themselves in a week even if you castrate yourself. That hair was going to fall out regardless. If an anti-androgen works, it should start protecting hair going forward.

Finasteride/dutasteride hair trials found clinically significant improvements by 6 months out. I have had a much faster response and I can see blatant improvement in my hair contour and density after the last 2.5 months of aggressive treatment. But no one should assume this will be the case.

You are very young and I expect that you will actually have a very good regrowth if you get on an adequate regimen. But it will take months to know what's really happening. If it's working, what you should notice, in spite of increased shedding overall, is new and thicker vellus growth at the hairline, corners, and temples. Even if you shed like crazy, as long as you see new hairs clearly coming in, then you are winning.

That can be evident within a few weeks even. If you're not getting that, you might need to add oral minoxidil or up the anti-androgenic dose for full results. Your scalp should absolutely still have the regenerative capacity at your age. So watch for that, and if you don't see it, readjust.
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I'm honestly not sure about adding oral Minoxidil solely based on the fact that I'm glad with what I have now and don't want any other sides, expenses or more things to do during the day to just maintain my hair, that may become an option in the near future though.
 
The 7TH Sense

The 7TH Sense

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Spanishboy97 said:
@The 7TH Sense are you thinking in jumping on this train if brotzu fails?
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I don't love to share my thoughts in public threads if I don't have enough elements to judge this argument, but I'll try to elaborate an opinion.
I don't know what you mean exactly for "hype train"; if you are asking if I will jump on this gun and buy the molecule from the black market, I say "no" for sure. What the OP is doing is very fascinating and interesting, and is bringing a lot of information to the forum: kudos to him. But I personally don't see myself buying questionable stuff from unknown foreign chemists/vendors, without studies on it and a safety profile well documented. I also would never give a shot of 2000€ to my university's funds even though the compound could last long, and since OP did a lot of useful maths, I don't want either to spend like 2€ per day, since I do not work and do not have any personal incomes aside from scolarships, and the amount of time and money for even a month of treatment does not fit in my possibilities, also given the unknown costs/benefits ratio. I say also that I would probably figure a way to overcome my economic limits in some ways if I really had to, but surely not for an unknown molecule which can cause potentially serious damage to my body. If it was a drug already marketed, I could have thought of. Then again, all we know are the first reasonings about the efficacy and the first data emerged from the little pivotal trials who are not even directed to Androgenetic Alopecia. Also, I don't want to spend those 2000 to get the molecule, prepare the solution, having sides and be forced to quit, wasting a good percentage of the money I spent.
Otherwise, if you intend that I should be ecstatic and in trepidation for when the molecule gets officially released, I would say "no" again, because even if the molecule will be considered effective by the pharma company, it won't be documented for alopecia and its use for that will be discouraged and nebulous again. I don't see myself in checking everyday the hairs to see improvements and report obsessively in the forum, as well as constantly checking my body's functions to be sure that I'm not experiencing sides. I'm not that type of guy, I was already getting crazy checking for gyno and sexual function while on finasteride (even though it made me forget about my hairs), but at least I knew what I could expect for my hairs and what symptoms I should search. I just don't want to spend other years of my life being paranoid for this sh*t. Also, the drug's trials and tests require a lot of time before marketing/commercialization. I don't need a product in 5-10 years, I need a treatment NOW (and I'm not buying anything obscure and putting myself in trouble with the laws of import/export of my country) which can be effective, accessible and economic. That's why, for this conditions I just mentioned, aside from Brotzu, I wait and I'm hyped only for Polichem and curiously follow this new South Korean research.

I read however this thread because I enjoy when people test new therapies, because our hairs grow only if you get on a proper treatment, not if you study or read the new useless publications and proto-discoveries (which I read, but for other purposes) or listen the new speeches of the same 4-5 clowns that are called "experts" or "researchers" but who knows what the f*** have they done in their last 10 years of "research" aside from making bizarre claims to raise money to carry on with their shitty startups and constantly delaying their trials. I am thankful to OP and I really enjoy his new regimen and the data and impressions that he is giving us.
And who knows, if his results will be so impressive I might even change my mind! This is in fact one of the few threads for which I have set ON the notifications :)
 
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