Diet and hair loss?

[freakout]

Theoretically speaking, balding prone follicles become sensitive to androgens in an age dependent manner. They are genetically programmed to miniaturize in the presence of androgens past a certain biological age.

OLD age has some influence and call it senile baldness but at twenty or so years of age?

If those follicles are "sensitive to androgens in an age dependent manner",...

how did the transplanted hair follicles encased in biopsies of their scalp, of ALL 28 men and 11 women diagnosed with androgenetic alopecia, grow into terminal size in the mouse experiment?

 

[freakout]

I agree that "androgenetics" is nothing but a THEORY or a BELIEF - because there's no solid evidence. And something is missing in its equation - a third element or even a fourth and fifth.

androgens + genes + ____ + ____ = male pattern baldness

Here, even Propecia scientists are saying it's a belief . The Propecia website even put the word 'believe' in BOLD letters.

 

[freakout]

Male pattern baldness is an inherited trait

We talk as if MBP is a mere "secondary sex characteristics" - like having blue eyes.

It's NOT. It's a symptom because it's associated with various or should I say PLENTY of potentially DEADLY conditions/diseases. male pattern baldness is multifactorial indication of lifestyle and environmental conditions.

Androgenetic Alopecia proponents argue as if male pattern baldness is predetermined. Narrow mindedness of these people will get us nowhere.

 

[freakout]

I think that is oversimplifying it. I think one inherits a predisposition to baldness, the strength of which varies from person to person.

I totally agree. It's like diabetis Type II. You inherit a predisposition - not a predetermined state. Your brother would likely have it including you uncle. BUT if you eat right specially beginning at a young age, you won't have to worry about developing it.

Sad to say that diet has but little direct influence over male pattern baldness. If it does to a large extent, it would have shown up in epidemiological data like it did with diabetis Type II.

 

[freakout]

Conventional beliefs in genetics is a piece of crap. It fell apart after the Human Genome Project concluded. You should subscribe to emerging sciences - epigenetics -

Epigenetics states that genes DO NOT activate by themselves - not even by time - but by environmental signals.

While I agree that OLD age has some influence, male pattern baldness occurs at a young age for most men and WITHIN your lifetime which means that your environment or your lifestyle is responsible for activating those genes.

We are victims of Merck's massive marketing campaign that DHT directly miniaturizes hair follicles. That theory tells you that your only option is to buy Propecia.

 

[balder]

androgens + genes + ____ + ____ = male pattern baldness

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v121/ ... 2102a.html

Common pattern baldness (androgenetic alopecia) is the most common form of hair loss in humans. In Caucasians, normal male hair loss, commonly known as "male pattern baldness", is noticeable in about 20% of men aged 20, and increases steadily with age, so that a male in his 90s has a 90% chance of having some degree of male pattern baldness. In addition to being among the most common natural conditions that make men self-conscious, recent studies indicate associations of male pattern baldness with:

(1) benign prostatic hyperplasia; odds ratio (OR)=3.23; 95% confidence interval (CI): 1.81–5.79)

(2) coronary heart disease (relative risk=1.36; 95% CI: 1.11–1.67)

(3) hyperinsulinemia (OR=1.91; 95% CI: 1.02–3.56); and

(4) insulin-resistance-associated disorders, such as obesity; OR=2.90; 95% CI: 1.76–4.79), hypertension; OR=2.09; 95% CI: 1.14–3.82), and dyslipidemia (OR=4.45; 95% CI: 1.74–11.34).

MBP is also a risk factor for clinical prostate cancer; relative risk=1.50; 95% CI: 1.12–2.00).

Although it is a widely accepted opinion that common baldness is an autosomal dominant phenotype in men and an autosomal recessive phenotype in women, or indeed that baldness is genetically influenced, it is based on surprisingly little empirical data. Here we grade MBP, in 476 monozygotic (MZ) and 408 dizygotic (DZ) male twin pairs aged between 25 and 36 y and find a heritability of 0.81 (95% CI: 0.77–0.85), thus confirming that genetic effects play a major part in the progression of common hair loss.

[...]

 

[balder]

androgens + genes + ____ + ____ = male pattern baldness

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15194142

Male pattern baldness is the result of premature entry into catagen due to androgens. In order to prevent hair loss, it is important to understand two critical steps, i.e., the induction mechanism of premature entry and the regression process of catagen.

At the initiation, dihydrotestosterone (DHT) stimulates synthesis of transforming growth factor-beta2 (TGF-beta2) in dermal papilla cells. TGF-beta2 suppresses proliferation of epithelial cells and stimulates synthesis of certain caspases. Then TGF-beta2 triggers the intrinsic caspase network and subsequently epithelial cells are eliminated through apoptotic cell death.


TGF-beta antagonists are effective in preventing catagen-like morphological changes and in promoting elongation of hair follicles in vivo and in vitro. These lines of evidence strongly suggest the presence of a "catagen cascade" in male pattern baldness, involving: (1) the conversion of testosterone to DHT by type II 5-alpha-reductase; (2) the synthesis of TGF-beta2 in dermal papilla cells; and (3) the activation of the intrinsic caspase network. These sequential events contribute to the shortening of the human hair cycle.

 

[balder]

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=37149&start=0









...

 

[balder]

androgens + genes + ____ + ____ = male pattern baldness

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/ ... AT20110216

Stress-blocking drug restores hair in bald mice

(Reuters) - U.S. researchers studying the effects of stress on the gut may have stumbled on a chemical compound that stimulates hair growth

[...]

The team injected these mice with a stress-blocking chemical compound called astressin-B, which blocks the action of the stress hormone CRF.

The mutant mice got a daily injection of the compound over five days, then the team measured the effects of this drug on their colons and put the mice back in their cages.

"When we came back three months later, their hair had all grown back. They were not distinguishable from their littermates who were not genetically altered," Mulugeta said.

[...]

 

[dpdr]

For me, then I changed my diet and lifestyle, my hair loss has stopped completely

 

[balder]

http://georgefebish.wordpress.com/2011/ ... in-common/

It was once felt baldness was due to a lack of Stem Cells. But recently scientists found men that have baldness have the same number as men without baldness. But the bald men have far fewer Progenitor Cells. Scientists are now looking for why these men’s stem cells stopped producing Progenitor Cells. Epigenetics is a powerful system at work inside each cell of our bodies. It is clearly affected by diet, stress, thought and environmental toxins. As these triggers reset our epigenetic codes, we move into possibly new areas of disease, mental illness and depression. It is imperative for us to both understand epigenetic triggers and to control them if we are to have a healthy and happy life style. Could we be witnessing the start of a new evolution from human into something else.

 

[Artas]

Of course diet and hair loss is related to some extent, however when you have male pattern baldness then diet means nothing.

 

[jasonsmith941]

Hello Everybody,
Myself Jason Smith here.... I'm the newbie to this forum site & really I found this website very interesting. I have found very valuable information about Hair loss Issue in men's and Diet. Good discussions.... Thanks!

 

[s.a.f]

Diet and hairloss - not related!!! FACTAMUNDO!!!!

Unless you're talking about eating finasteride pills.

 

[bigentries]

Diet and hair loss are related, it's a fact, and don't post the usual super fat guy with a rug on his head again, we got the point...

If it's a fact, where are the perfectly clear studies?

 

[slurms mackenzie]

Diet and hair loss are related, it's a fact, and don't post the usual super fat guy with a rug on his head again, we got the point...

If it's a fact, where are the perfectly clear studies?

They don't exist, neither do the ones disproving it.

Instead we have people espousing opinions as facts, which is a shame, and adds nothing to the debate.

I could be wrong but sometimes i think people interpret anybody saying there's a link between hairloss and diet automatically thinks that that person is saying there's a cure and you can stop hair loss, through diet alone, not true at all, but I'm not sure how people can rule out the effect of diet on hair either.

Lets take a look at insulin resistance and hairloss

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12775957

e prevalence of extensive loss of hair (at least grade II or III on Ludwig's scale) was quite high (31.2%). The insulin resistance associated parameters, such as waist and neck circumferences, abdominal obesity measured by waist-to-hip ratio, mean insulin concentration (11.3 mU/l versus 9.95 mU/l, p=0.02) or urinary albumin-to-creatinine ratio (1.80 versus 1.58, p=0.01), were significantly higher in women with extensive hair loss compared to those with normal hair or only minimal hair loss (grade I on Ludwig's scale).

Now i could be wrong but can't insulin resistance be influenced by diet?

That's just one of many examples, hopefully from such a starting, a discussion can take place, whereby people bring to the table facts, questions and refutes.

 

[slurms mackenzie]

Diet and hair loss are related, it's a fact, and don't post the usual super fat guy with a rug on his head again, we got the point...

This is where i agree, it's like whenever it snows in the UK some idiot always says "so much for global warming", oblivious to the concept of trends and framing using a sample size of 1


Disclaimer: I don't want a debate on global warming, i'm just pointing out how people misuse data, in the same way some hysterical newspapers will declare the end of the earth whenever there's a heatwave in kent, which is equally invalid.

 

[bigentries]

I could be wrong but sometimes i think people interpret anybody saying there's a link between hairloss and diet automatically thinks that that person is saying there's a cure and you can stop hair loss, through diet alone, not true at all, but I'm not sure how people can rule out the effect of diet on hair either.

You haven't been here in a while right? We've had people claiming that diet alone was the cause.
And there is probably an effect, like lifestyle has an effect, or stress. The problem is, how much?

Now i could be wrong but can't insulin resistance be influenced by diet?

That's just one of many examples, hopefully from such a starting, a discussion can take place, whereby people bring to the table facts, questions and refutes.

Ok, the study is about 63 year old Finish women. What does this has to do with male pattern baldness?
I know it sound harsh, but I read somewhere that male pattern baldness accounts for 95% of all cases of hairloss.
When have breast cancer campaigns focused on young men?

 

[slurms mackenzie]

You haven't been here in a while right? We've had people claiming that diet alone was the cause.

Okay yes there's a few freaks and zealots, i'd like to think that they're tackled in an appropriate manner, and the people doing so are sensible enough to realise that their theories aren't the be all and end all.

And there is probably an effect, like lifestyle has an effect, or stress. The problem is, how much?

Pretty sure i've said this before and you can quote me on this "f*** knows,".

I might have quoted in this thread or another similar thread a study which put the figure at around 20% diet, by comparing identical twins, it was alas but one study and unlikely to give such a definitive answer.

Ok, the study is about 63 year old Finish women. What does this has to do with male pattern baldness?

I know it sound harsh, but I read somewhere that male pattern baldness accounts for 95% of all cases of hairloss.

The study refers to Androgenetic Alopecia, male pattern baldness is Androgenetic Alopecia (androgenetic alopecia) hairloss which is caused by androgens (male hormones).

The study also mentions a similar link in men, so it's a valid starting point for discussions.

When have breast cancer campaigns focused on young men?

I'm not sure whether your making this point to reinforce the previous point, which i'm not sure i agree with because i think a study on Androgenetic Alopecia is relevant for both sexes, however very rarely, most campaigns target older women, but you do realise young men get breast cancer right? Just not many.

 

[freakout]

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v121/n6/full/5602102a.html
... recent studies indicate associations of male pattern baldness with:

(1) benign prostatic hyperplasia; odds ratio (OR)=3.23; 95% confidence interval (CI): 1.81–5.79)
(2) coronary heart disease (relative risk=1.36; 95% CI: 1.11–1.67)
(3) hyperinsulinemia (OR=1.91; 95% CI: 1.02–3.56); and
(4) insulin-resistance-associated disorders, such as obesity; OR=2.90; 95% CI: 1.76–4.79), hypertension; OR=2.09; 95% CI: 1.14–3.82), and dyslipidemia (OR=4.45; 95% CI: 1.74–11.34).

MBP is also a risk factor for clinical prostate cancer; relative risk=1.50; 95% CI: 1.12–2.00).

Although it is a widely accepted opinion that common baldness is an autosomal dominant phenotype in men and an autosomal recessive phenotype in women, or indeed that baldness is genetically influenced, it is based on surprisingly little empirical data. Here we grade MBP, in 476 monozygotic (MZ) and 408 dizygotic (DZ) male twin pairs aged between 25 and 36 y and find a heritability of 0.81 (95% CI: 0.77–0.85), thus confirming that genetic effects play a major part in the progression of common hair loss.

Appreciated. Thanks for the links.

I have yet to see bald twins who lived in totally different environments e.g. modern versus remote rural/primitive setting.

If we were born bald and never grew hair, then we can blame our genes.

But male pattern baldness occurs during a guys lifetime and epigenetics states that our environment/lifestyle is responsible for those dispositions. THere is no such thing as a "timer" gene waiting to set off by itself - something set off those genes.

In the mice experiments, when those male pattern baldness hair follicles grew into terminal hair in just four months - encased in biopsies of the donor's scalp, essentially making then scalp transplants...

...it showed that the genetics components of male pattern baldness is not within the follicles but somewhere else in the body perhaps other systems affecting the scalp in general.

It also showed that DHT sensitivity IS FALSE. Should I call it a LIE?