EVERYONE Will Get Finasteride Side-Effects Eventually

[heyhey]

Oh man you really don't know when to stop do you? Again if you want to be a real internet warrior why won't you mail the researchers and tell them their study is garbage? Lol, come on now mister bro scientist, I would love to see their answer.

Time to move on, this discussion with you is nothing more than a waste of time anyway, your mind is already made up.

Even if we tell you that we are on finasteride for years and have experienced no side effects you will not believe it, because you are so invested in the idea that finasteride is a dangerous medication and everyone gets side effects. There are tens of millions, probably hundreds of millions maybe on finasteride or dutasteride, for either hair or prostate issues, you seriously think the world would not notice if millions turned into bitchy pfs weirdos? If you go and read pfs help its so obvious its all in their heads, they talk about the face changing forms and then post images where they look exactly the same but different lightning and face expressions.

 

[user394587]

Personally I found the commentary in this article to be a fairly balanced discussion: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6369643/

The statement in particular I resonate with is this

"While the incidence of persistent sexual, mental, and physical side effects despite quitting finasteride is unknown, and the condition is not recognized by the scientific community, individuals who suffer from PFS do present with very distinctive and homogenous symptoms. The concept has emerged from reports of nondermatologists, neuroendocrinological research, case reports, and uncontrolled studies. These have been scrutinized by hair experts who found that persistent sexual side effects were only documented in low-quality studies with a strong bias selection and a significant nocebo effect. Others totally dispute the credibility of the PFS. In any case, the PFS is a problem that has to be dealt with. Low-quality studies neither confirm nor refute the condition as a valid nosologic entity. Therefore, it is as inappropriate to dismiss the condition, as it would be to demonize finasteride for the treatment of male pattern hair loss."

I think the bottom line is that you're going to have three categories of people with it comes to finasteride:

1) People that have taken it with no side effects and want to keep their hair, and will defend finasteride to the death regardless of any evidence that it is not safe.

2) People that have taken it and experienced side effects, and will use everything they can to try and demonize finasteride despite the absence of strong evidence to support such an extreme view.

3) People that have either taken it with side effects, taken it without side effects, or not taken it at all who are neutral enough to recognize the statement made in the quote above.

I find myself in an awkward position in these sort of discussions because I don't agree with group 1 or 2, and they unfortunately make up the vast majority of people on this subject. You have people like Kevin Mann, and while I'm sure he has the best interest of hair loss sufferers at heart, comes out with statements like "DHT is a trash hormone" which is a nonsensical statement for many reasons. Then you have people on the exact opposite side of the spectrum. This is probably why out of the "influencers" I resonate with Derek from MPMD the most, because he falls strongly into category 3.

It is what it is, I guess.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

I think the bottom line is that you're going to have three categories of people with it comes to finasteride:

1) People that have taken it with no side effects and want to keep their hair, and will defend finasteride to the death regardless of any evidence that it is not safe.

2) People that have taken it and experienced side effects, and will use everything they can to try and demonize finasteride despite the absence of strong evidence to support such an extreme view.

3) People that have either taken it with side effects, taken it without side effects, or not taken it at all who are neutral enough to recognize the statement made in the quote above.

Hi, while I get the gist of what you are saying, there's a slightly exaggerated misconception with the categories you have come up with,
consumers who don't have a vested interest in a product will largely be Indifferent (roughly what you explain as category 3),

While there may be people who fit into your first 2 categories on a whole they will be few and far between, so saying that they, ''make up the vast majority of people on this subject'', seems a bit of an overstatement, While people Taking finasteride to keep their hair sounds largely rational, I'm not sure about the notion that they are all somehow '' defending finasteride to the death regardless of any evidence that it is not safe''

I find myself in an awkward position in these sort of discussions because I don't agree with group 1 or 2, and they unfortunately make up the vast majority of people on this subject. You have people like Kevin Mann, and while I'm sure he has the best interest of hair loss sufferers at heart, comes out with statements like "DHT is a trash hormone" which is a nonsensical statement for many reasons. Then you have people on the exact opposite side of the spectrum. This is probably why out of the "influencers" I resonate with Derek from MPMD the most, because he falls strongly into category 3.

It is what it is, I guess.

I don't think you are in an awkward position, you may have misread the general consensus though, by being influenced by the likes of forums and youtube

This is probably why out of the "influencers" I resonate with Derek from MPMD the most, because he falls strongly into category 3.

I like the guy's channel, but he tends to comes across as having borderline body dysmorphia, he openly mocks the excessive's he goes to,
''Death Star Delts'' so large he can no longer raise his arms and stay afloat while working as a lifeguard, for example.

He also mentions his trial and error steroid use would have likely accelerated his hair loss, which is why he originally became interested in the subject in the first place, So while I agree his channel is entertaining and he makes good content, to a large percentage of people on planet earth, his lifestyle choice of steroid Abuse, Bulking up until you can't move and then combating his hair loss with Finasteride, RU, and Microneedling until his head bleeds is also fairly bonkers.

 

[user394587]

Hi, while I get the gist of what you are saying, there's a slightly exaggerated misconception with the categories you have come up with,
consumers who don't have a vested interest in a product will largely be Indifferent (roughly what you explain as category 3),

While there may be people who fit into your first 2 categories on a whole they will be few and far between, so saying that they, ''make up the vast majority of people on this subject'', seems a bit of an overstatement, While people Taking finasteride to keep their hair sounds largely rational, I'm not sure about the notion that they are all somehow '' defending finasteride to the death regardless of any evidence that it is not safe''



I don't think you are in an awkward position, you may have misread the general consensus though, by being influenced by the likes of forums and youtube

I like the guy's channel, but he tends to comes across as having borderline body dysmorphia, he openly mocks the excessive's he goes to,
''Death Star Delts'' so large he can no longer raise his arms and stay afloat while working as a lifeguard, for example.

He also mentions his trial and error steroid use would have likely accelerated his hair loss, which is why he originally became interested in the subject in the first place, So while I agree his channel is entertaining and he makes good content, to a large percentage of people on planet earth, his lifestyle choice of steroid Abuse, Bulking up until you can't move and then combating his hair loss with Finasteride, RU, and Microneedling until his head bleeds is also fairly bonkers.

I don't think that everyone who takes finasteride thinks that it comes without any risks or ignores scientific evidence of said risks, hence the third group.

With that said, I think you're probably right that my perception is skewed by what is seen on forums and reddit. The problem is that people aren't exactly open about their use of finasteride. By that I mean I've found that people often just don't talk about it outside of an anonymous setting for various reasons. That makes it hard to get an accurate idea of what a general consensus is.

 

[trialAcc]

I don't think that everyone who takes finasteride thinks that it comes without any risks or ignores scientific evidence of said risks, hence the third group.

With that said, I think you're probably right that my perception is skewed by what is seen on forums and reddit. The problem is that people aren't exactly open about their use of finasteride. By that I mean I've found that people often just don't talk about it outside of an anonymous setting for various reasons. That makes it hard to get an accurate idea of what a general consensus is.

Exactly, and that's because only the people with worst experiences are going to be more likely to want to seek out a forum to talk about them.

 

[user394587]

Absolutely not, that's weak specultation from your part based on your biased view. People on hairloss forums are people who seek out treatments that work for hairloss and mostly only care about hairloss and not side effects, most people here are pro finasteride. Reddit (tressless in particular) is even more pro finasteride and threads about people experiencing side effects are down voted en masse.

The people with the worst experience would be on forums like propeciahelp and not on hairloss forums or reddit where they get attacked for even mentioning they had sides.

Yeah, the gaslighting on r/tressless is toxic. Nocebo effects have been well documented with finasteride and clearly exist, but there are some people that think literally every incidence of side effects is just "in your head".

The thing that annoys me the most from that sub is how people think that getting baseline bloodwork before taking finasteride is unwarranted. I'm sorry, but what? I think I'd want to know beforehand if I had something like hypogonadism or high E2 before taking a medication that systemically smashes my DHT by ~68-69%. I'm pretty neutral when it comes to finasteride usage in general, but suggesting that baseline bloodwork is unnecessary is just pure idiocy.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Yeah, the gaslighting on r/tressless is toxic. Nocebo effects have been well documented with finasteride and clearly exist, but there are some people that think literally every incidence of side effects is just "in your head".

The thing that annoys me the most from that sub is how people think that getting baseline bloodwork before taking finasteride is unwarranted. I'm sorry, but what? I think I'd want to know beforehand if I had something like hypogonadism or high E2 before taking a medication that systemically smashes my DHT by ~68-69%. I'm pretty neutral when it comes to finasteride usage in general, but suggesting that baseline bloodwork is unnecessary is just pure idiocy.

Yes, it should be a must . It was a none sense back in 1997 when it got the green light by the FDA and it is even more insane now , after alll we know. That is 23 years of studies that are not even taking into consideration on the warnings .

 

[Will Be an Egg in 5 years]

Absolutely not, that's weak specultation from your part based on your biased view. People on hairloss forums are people who seek out treatments that work for hairloss and mostly only care about hairloss and not side effects, most people here are pro finasteride. Reddit (tressless in particular) is even more pro finasteride and threads about people experiencing side effects are down voted en masse.

The people with the worst experience would be on forums like propeciahelp and not on hairloss forums or reddit where they get attacked for even mentioning they had sides.

Propecia help is full of mentally ill people. It shouldn't be taken seriously

 

[trialAcc]

Propecia help is full of mentally ill people. It shouldn't be taken seriously

Unfortunately this is largely the truth.

 

[bluecyclone]

I know this is against the general opinion but hear me out

(This is about sexual side effects)

You were exposed to your natural DHT levels for all your post puberty life. Depending on when you started finasteride you may have had more or less time reaping the benefits of DHT to your sexual organs. For those that are not aware DHT strengthens the smooth muscle in the penis and the muscles surrounding the penis (the Kegel muscles) AND also is very responsible for libido being that it is a much stronger androgen than finasteride.

Initially inhibiting DHT will not have much noticeable effect for most people as the penis tissues are already quite strong and are able to deliver sufficient bloodlfow. However, over time, it could be one or two or even 10 years depending on the person, the tissue that you built with DHT will begin to atrophy and get weaker and T alone will not be enough to sustain it. This is typically a very slow process and hence hard to notice. This is when the sexual sides will be less noticeable

Usually by this time you will have aged 5 or so years, if you started in your late 20s or early 30s, and you might think that this drop in erectile quality is normal. This can carry on for a few more years while you use Cialis or other remedies to "hold you over" but eventually they won't be enough.

Your Penis NEEDS DHT to function at 100%! There is no way around this. Anyone denying this is denying that androgens increase sex drive and sexual function. This is the equivalent of saying that some 60 year old man will not get a boost in erectile quality if they go on TRT w/ Proviron ed.


Here's an analogy to help you understand. You're on the highway and going 160, the speed limit is 100. You have more speed than you need. THEN you lift your foot of the gas by 60% and the car starts slowing down BUT as long as you're over a 100 it's not a problem and you won't really notice the negative effects. Once you go under a 100 that's when you will realize that it's problematic to inhibit over 60% of your bodies strongest androgen.

As for the studies which show that only 5% of people get side effects this is why that's not accurate. This is self reported sides and no man actually wants to believe that they have erectile dysfunction and after a couple of years on the drug with normal erectile function most men will not notice or attribute to finasteride the increased time it takes to achieve and erection or the decreased maximal maintainable erection strength.

If the studies were done by scientifically observing 1) The time it takes to achieve maximal erection with a normal stimuli, 2) The strength of the maximal level of maintainable erection during intercourse, and 3) How long the male is able to hold an erection without physical stimuli THEN they'd have to report that 80-90% of men have side effects especially after 5 years on the drug


Also, the bigger your penis the more likely you will be of experiencing serious ED issues down the line with finasterde as it has a much heavier demand of blodflow and thus an overall healthier penis. Someone who is 5 inches long needs much less blood flow to achieve a maximal erection than someone who is 7 inches long ( the blood flow needed per length of the penis is not a linear line but an exponential curve).

Anyone thinking you can have the same erectile function on finasteride as they did before it is a fool! The gap of 5 or so years makes worse erectile function harder to notice and/or attribute to finasteride but there is just no way around this fact: DHT is our most powerful androgen and it is 100% necessary for optimal penile function

Would be good to get a thread going on all options that don’t involve AA’s. Unfortunately the current thread is overridden with onion

Whether or not side effects are inevitable (which I agree with to an extent), I think inhibiting 5AR for hair is an archaic/outdated approach. 5AR is simply responsible for too much beyond hair for any sensible person to feel comfortable inhibiting it's function.

At least for as long as I'm not on exogenous testosterone (which doesn't guarantee no side effects), I'm not interested in using any treatments that affect androgen production, it's strictly PGD2/PGE/WNT angle options for me from now on. I think that is where the potential for more tolerable treatments lie unless someone invents a topical that truly stays local to the scalp somehow.

I'd rather be bald and firing on all cylinders mentally, physically, and sexually than keep my hair and be a depressed eunuch with no drive.

charger what’s your approach? I gave anti androgens a shot and failed miserably. OP is right, and really might be a matter or awareness or net impact. also agree that as a larger penis wielder the first sign was a reduction of blood flow to the tip. cold, even numb compared to being the most sensitive in the past.

 

[kidcurry96]

Would be good to get a thread going on all options that don’t involve AA’s. Unfortunately the current thread is overridden with onion

charger what’s your approach? I gave anti androgens a shot and failed miserably. OP is right, and really might be a matter or awareness or net impact. also agree that as a larger penis wielder the first sign was a reduction of blood flow to the tip. cold, even numb compared to being the most sensitive in the past.

There are some alternatives in trials however dont know whether they will be efficacious and get approved...
That being said, I really do not know what one should do instead of finasteride? Topical finasteride?

 

[bluecyclone]

Topical I believe ultimately leads to a lower serum concentration just takes longer to have an impact. I think I saw one study that had it 9/1 in terms of impact though. I was in topical Finasteride for 2 years. Shed like crazy but was hanging in there. Switched to topcial Dutasteride and RU in September and I’ve lost most of my hair.

 

[Stating facts]

Unfortunately this is largely the truth.

Well so are a bunch of people on tressless, Reddit. Have you seen some responses like 'I bang my wife every day on finasteride and masturbate 4 times a day' and equivalent stuff. I would put such people in mentally ill category as well. You can't generalize everyone on PFS forum and nor on tressless.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Topical I believe ultimately leads to a lower serum concentration just takes longer to have an impact. I think I saw one study that had it 9/1 in terms of impact though. I was in topical Finasteride for 2 years. Shed like crazy but was hanging in there. Switched to topcial Dutasteride and RU in September and I’ve lost most of my hair.

Sheds are not negatives when using new medications. It precisely because they are too strong and too effective that the sheds begin. Then you guys go off your meds looking far worse than when you started and you blame the Goddess-awful medication for causing sheds. The more massive the shed, the more beneficial unless someone is experiencing rampant hormonal hair loss and then, eh, that's that without HRT but guys who won't titrate meds, eh, too bad for them. Guys who won't wear a system temporarily during a shed, well too bad for them. I rode my massive spironolactone shed out and it's been 20 months and every single hair is new and "Female" and just nicer than any adult male's hair short of Brad Pitt and that might be in sight.

People need activities and I know this is an activity for most of us but many guys are just playing around and hoping but they refuse to take the advice they are given and them whine about big corporations not spending enough. I think the HRT meds, including dutasteride, finasteride and both kinds of minoxidil are essential. If people aren't able to use those, then I frankly have very little interest in convincing anyone nor do I care about what's in the pipeline. The best advances in the history of hormonal meds took place in the late 80's to the early 00's. I was thrilled when they came out and I took them not expecting sheds, not expecting turmoil because we just took our f*****g meds.

Now everybody is all, I have a magic penis and I just can't risk that. Then good luck but you post all of the time and you don't seem to be progressing. There's HRT, there are systems, one can shave one's head in triumph or people can whine and I whined for years and years and then I was like I have children and I am not interested in women except my lol ex-wife so I am going to restore my hair. Better to cuddle with someone beautiful than lose one's looks forever. T is like a ticking time-bomb that degrades male looks and abilities progressively. Many guys masturbate compulsively like monkeys so if that is the future goal, I had had my share of compulsive fantasizing about someone making me get HRT like through blackmail or something. I was like, screw it I am doing it and I will admit that I find being female far superior to being an ugly male cog in the system. All of the compulsive behavior is gone and I am thrilled to be chemically female. This is my joke though about being careful what one asks for. All of my fantasies came true but there was no longer any charge to it and I just enjoyed the non-driven feeling of estradiol over T. Oh I just love my increasingly-long and stylish blondish locks as they begin to drape and frame my face. I have already lost two IQ points off my IQ of 223. If I am not careful, Mensa is going to make me turn in my card. I find myself constantly licking red blow pops while I wear pink lipstick. All since my new hair started coming in much lighter.

Goddess bless.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Sheds are not negatives when using new medications. It precisely because they are too strong and too effective that the sheds begin. Then you guys go off your meds looking far worse than when you started and you blame the Goddess-awful medication for causing sheds. The more massive the shed, the more beneficial unless someone is experiencing rampant hormonal hair loss and then, eh, that's that without HRT but guys who won't titrate meds, eh, too bad for them. Guys who won't wear a system temporarily during a shed, well too bad for them. I rode my massive spironolactone shed out and it's been 20 months and every single hair is new and "Female" and just nicer than any adult male's hair short of Brad Pitt and that might be in sight.

People need activities and I know this is an activity for most of us but many guys are just playing around and hoping but they refuse to take the advice they are given and them whine about big corporations not spending enough. I think the HRT meds, including dutasteride, finasteride and both kinds of minoxidil are essential. If people aren't able to use those, then I frankly have very little interest in convincing anyone nor do I care about what's in the pipeline. The best advances in the history of hormonal meds took place in the late 80's to the early 00's. I was thrilled when they came out and I took them not expecting sheds, not expecting turmoil because we just took our f*****g meds.

Now everybody is all, I have a magic penis and I just can't risk that. Then good luck but you post all of the time and you don't seem to be progressing. There's HRT, there are systems, one can shave one's head in triumph or people can whine and I whined for years and years and then I was like I have children and I am not interested in women except my lol ex-wife so I am going to restore my hair. Better to cuddle with someone beautiful than lose one's looks forever. T is like a ticking time-bomb that degrades male looks and abilities progressively. Many guys masturbate compulsively like monkeys so if that is the future goal, I had had my share of compulsive fantasizing about someone making me get HRT like through blackmail or something. I was like, screw it I am doing it and I will admit that I find being female far superior to being an ugly male cog in the system. All of the compulsive behavior is gone and I am thrilled to be chemically female. This is my joke though about being careful what one asks for. All of my fantasies came true but there was no longer any charge to it and I just enjoyed the non-driven feeling of estradiol over T. Oh I just love my increasingly-long and stylish blondish locks as they begin to drape and frame my face. I have already lost two IQ points off my IQ of 223. If I am not careful, Mensa is going to make me turn in my card. I find myself constantly licking red blow pops while I wear pink lipstick. All since my new hair started coming in much lighter.

Goddess bless.

Uh oh. Pigeon got offended again. He of the magic penis. I take it back. You do have a magic penis and finasteride would just shrivel it and maybe even kill you dead on the spot.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

One look at your profile picture says enough for most rational people to not take you serious anyway.

That's a bit hypocritical, who the hell goes to the trouble of wearing a suit for their successful pigeon head transplant photo, then forgets to wear a tie?

 

[sonictemples]

Gotta get butta for da popcurn

 

[20YearsOnFin]

I don't think that everyone who takes finasteride thinks that it comes without any risks or ignores scientific evidence of said risks, hence the third group.

With that said, I think you're probably right that my perception is skewed by what is seen on forums and reddit. The problem is that people aren't exactly open about their use of finasteride. By that I mean I've found that people often just don't talk about it outside of an anonymous setting for various reasons. That makes it hard to get an accurate idea of what a general consensus is.

Yes, this is true, I think you just have to have faith in the fact, the majority of finasteride users have fairly unremarkable results, in essence "nothing appears to be happening", they will still be balding, though hopefully at a much slower pace, the treatment just becomes part of their daily routine and they will have very little positive or negative to report for the duration. A few may inadvertently make themselves known on forums etc, if they encounter a problem they can't resolve, but for the most part, as you said, the millions of people worldwide using the drug will continue doing so anonymously.

 

[Norwoody]

hai snoic

 

[sonictemples]

hai snoic

Henlo woodish man how ya doin