Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[Ikarus]

on of the most important issues in using any of these antiandrogen drugs, is that you should take care of your liver and regularly check your liver enzymes...
i was on spironolactone 200mg/d for 3 months... not only it didnt work but also it increased my liver enzymes by 4-5 fold... when i saw the blood test results i took it to a specialist doctor and he recommended me to stop the drug immediately

Spironolactone raised your liver enzymes? That’s weird, I thought spironolactone was used for cirrhosis of the liver... And, I agree. I think everyone should be getting frequent blood tests, at least once every three to six months.

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

I don't like to admit it but that is a pattern I have been seeing. Most people with success including the OP of this thread initially started on Cypro and then moved to bica. I can see why people are apprehensive though. Cypro and bica at the same time is a tall order for people worried about their health. Cypro in particular is risky though I see you're taking a low dose. That's why some just opt for Bica + e withdut but even I'm not sure how effective that is. Some say to start on cypro and then quit it because the damage it does to your balls are permanent but that might allow you to move on to bica. I guess it comes down to how far you are willing to go for a maybe since nothing is guaranteed.

OP moved to bica because he believes it's ultimately a stronger regimen. But CPA didn't lose effectiveness for him prior to switching.

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

if ur taking that much estrogen u wouldn't benefit from anything more than 12.5mg of Bicalutamide. my regimen is nowhere near excessive

and I took cpa between 50-75mg by itself before and it didn't even slightly slow my hairloss down. the only thing that has worked is bicalutamide in far superiority to everything else I've tried
.View attachment 129008
also another update: I waxed my forehead hairs I got from bica and this is what my hairline looks like at the moment. (thanks for the suggestion @I'mme )

I think your face begin to feminize. What do you say?

 

[Yar]

why would u even take spironolactone lmao. its literally weak as heck and has more side effects than oral minoxidil.

You would need roughly 1500-1600mg of spironolactone to fully block male levels of testosterone and even then partial agonist activity would derail the complete ar signaling shutdown.

are you advising such doses in your mind? right now somebody will listen to you and start taking such doses! don’t know don’t advise! I talk with MTF, their modes are safe from the point of view of health and hair. I and MTF myself

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

ill send u a selfie rn, I don't think my face changed at all in my honest opinion.

Send me your selfie, I will send you mine.

 

[Ikarus]

are you advising such doses in your mind? right now somebody will listen to you and start taking such doses! don’t know don’t advise! I talk with MTF, their modes are safe from the point of view of health and hair. I and MTF myself

ugh invented knowledge

 

[ali.talebi1994]

I am from Russia. How can I still communicate with you?

no matter, we can use google translate
i meant that you are free to use anti androgens if your balls are not a matter for you but be careful of your liver

 

[Yar]

spironolactone also causes high blood pressure, potassium deficiency, edema, kidney disease, liver scarring, and severe heart liver. it should be removed as an anti androgen.

spironolactone saves potassium

 

[Ikarus]

no matter, we can use google translate
i meant that you are free to use anti androgens if your balls are not a matter for you but be careful of your liver

Along with reduced tolerance for alcohol

 

[Yar]

ugh invented knowledge

what do you disagree with?

 

[ali.talebi1994]

are you advising such doses in your mind? right now somebody will listen to you and start taking such doses! don’t know don’t advise! I talk with MTF, their modes are safe from the point of view of health and hair. I and MTF myself

he is not advising bro he just says that spironolactone is very weak in terms of being an antiandrogen and if you chose to use it as an androgen blocker you would need very high doses of it and it does not worth because of its side effects

 

[Ikarus]

I really hate how I have to deal with this sh*t. getting gyno, having to take pills everyday, doing endless hours on research on super difficult prostate cancer papers, all because of balding.

I can't believe this world. it is not fair to go bald. I hate seeing everyone around me with full heads of hair and my diffused scalp in comparison, especially at my age. screw this world. there is no way I'm having kids. I don't have good genetics.

I mean, if you can dislike my posts over 2000 times in a short period of time, I’m pretty sure you can take the time to take these pills once a day

 

[ali.talebi1994]

I really hate how I have to deal with this sh*t. getting gyno, having to take pills everyday, doing endless hours on research on super difficult prostate cancer papers, all because of balding.

I can't believe this world. it is not fair to go bald. I hate seeing everyone around me with full heads of hair and my diffused scalp in comparison, especially at my age. screw this world. there is no way I'm having kids. I don't have good genetics.

have you tried Rogaine + Microneedling??? i have recently started it (it has been more than one month) and its working for me it is safe with no sides effects

 

[Yar]

he is not advising bro he just says that spironolactone is very weak in terms of being an antiandrogen and if you chose to use it as an androgen blocker you would need very high doses of it and it does not worth because of its side effects

he is an excellent anti-androgen, he writes sh*t! I use 50 mg spironolactone and 2 ml estro, I mtf! Subsequent doses of spironolactone will increase over the next 2 years to 50-200 mg and estro 2-12 mg

 

[Ikarus]

I really hate how I have to deal with this sh*t. getting gyno, having to take pills everyday, doing endless hours on research on super difficult prostate cancer papers, all because of balding.

I can't believe this world. it is not fair to go bald. I hate seeing everyone around me with full heads of hair and my diffused scalp in comparison, especially at my age. screw this world. there is no way I'm having kids. I don't have good genetics.

You don’t need to do research on these medications anymore, you’re just digging yourself deeper into an obsessive state rather than just relaxing and letting the medications do their job. Just be grateful that you caught your alleged hair loss early rather than late.

 

[ali.talebi1994]

he is an excellent anti-androgen, he writes sh*t! I use 50 mg spironolactone and 2 ml estro, I mtf! Subsequent doses of spironolactone will increase over the next 2 years to 50-200 mg and estro 2-12 mg

not every one respond to a specific drug in the same way

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

most people here block DHT, it doesn't stop their hairloss.

then they either go on the spironolactone/estrogen route, the cpa route, or the bica/raloxifene route. then they complain why they are still balding..

first of all spironolactone is an INSANELY weak anti androgen. 1mg of Spironolactone only blocks 0.6375ng/dl of total testosterone and it has partial agonist activity.

cyproterone doesn't reduce T that much but a lot more than spironolactone. Cyproterone by itself lowers T by around 40-70% and weakly inhibits the AR with partial agonist activity (albeit a lot stronger than spironolactone).

and then with bicalutamide. yeah this is the strongest route but I swear 90% of the people I see on bicalutamide on reddit are on letrozole/taamoxifen/raloxifene/arimidex all at the same time and at high doses bc they can't handle gyno. Most of the medical literature supports the theory that Bicalutamide blocks 8x more Total testosterone than spironolactone if not more. And with silent antagonist activity.

castration is tons stronger than all of these. the best plan is to use high dose cpa with low dose bicalutamide or Low dose bicalutamide with high dose cpa.

I tried bicalutamide for 4 months by itself and I regained my hairline but my top was still balding (although a lot slower than when I took dutas, spironolactone, estrogen, cpa by themselves or together).. I did some research and relative to breast tissue the dose I'm on should only be blocking around 600-700ng/dl of testosterone. My testosterone on blood tests went up from 913ng/dl to 1488ng/dl.

now I've added 12.5mg cpa to my regimen because at that dosage T (and E) Is reduced around 50%.

as for the partial agonist activity stuff. basically when u use bica/flut EVEN at low doses with a SAA, the AR is antagonized completely and partial agonist activity is irrelevant. this is because bicalutamide binds to the LBD of the AR and prevents coactivator activity in the presence of a transcriptionally inactive Androgen receptor. hence the AR becomes known as bicalhtamide-liganded AR

most people here block DHT, it doesn't stop their hairloss.

then they either go on the spironolactone/estrogen route, the cpa route, or the bica/raloxifene route. then they complain why they are still balding..

first of all spironolactone is an INSANELY weak anti androgen. 1mg of Spironolactone only blocks 0.6375ng/dl of total testosterone and it has partial agonist activity.

cyproterone doesn't reduce T that much but a lot more than spironolactone. Cyproterone by itself lowers T by around 40-70% and weakly inhibits the AR with partial agonist activity (albeit a lot stronger than spironolactone).

and then with bicalutamide. yeah this is the strongest route but I swear 90% of the people I see on bicalutamide on reddit are on letrozole/taamoxifen/raloxifene/arimidex all at the same time and at high doses bc they can't handle gyno. Most of the medical literature supports the theory that Bicalutamide blocks 8x more Total testosterone than spironolactone if not more. And with silent antagonist activity.

castration is tons stronger than all of these. the best plan is to use high dose cpa with low dose bicalutamide or Low dose bicalutamide with high dose cpa.

I tried bicalutamide for 4 months by itself and I regained my hairline but my top was still balding (although a lot slower than when I took dutas, spironolactone, estrogen, cpa by themselves or together).. I did some research and relative to breast tissue the dose I'm on should only be blocking around 600-700ng/dl of testosterone. My testosterone on blood tests went up from 913ng/dl to 1488ng/dl.

now I've added 12.5mg cpa to my regimen because at that dosage T (and E) Is reduced around 50%.

as for the partial agonist activity stuff. basically when u use bica/flut EVEN at low doses with a SAA, the AR is antagonized completely and partial agonist activity is irrelevant. this is because bicalutamide binds to the LBD of the AR and prevents coactivator activity in the presence of a transcriptionally inactive Androgen receptor. hence the AR becomes known as bicalhtamide-liganded AR

I've always thought the science behind bica seems sound. But I'm hard pressed to find very many success stories and it seems woefully underused if it's superior to every other method. Why do you think that is?

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

most people don't even get to the point of using it, thats what I think at least.

Well it's existed since the 90's. So i'd assume by now there'd be something at least. Meanwhile there's no shortage of hair loss papers on spironolactone, cpa, flut, etc. On the other hand, it seems to be gaining favorability in the mtf trans world only in the last couple years, so maybe it truly has just been overlooked as an AA. Not sure. Still, I'm curious how similar it actually is to flut, despite the similarities on paper.

 

[ali.talebi1994]

bica and flut are very similar. main difference is that 750mg of flutamide blocks the same amount of testosterone as 50mg of bicalutamide (258ng/dl).

and before someone says, what? only 258 ng of Testosterone?

yeah, try blocking 20-30% of ur T levels, its way more effective than blocking DHT with finastershit.

theres a reason why they focus on blocking T in prostate cancer and don't just used dht blockers

how long have you been on bica? have you noticed any changes in your hair growth?

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

yeah, try blocking 20-30% of ur T levels, its way more effective than blocking DHT with finastershit.

Except DHT is far more potent than T. And there's a proclivity for people with androgenetic alopecia to have a lower natural T blood levels than someone without. Meaning it's obviously not the ratio, but the sensitivity to androgens in general. Thus why finasteride and dutasteride are successful in many people since they purely inhibit type 2 5ar, regardless of available circulating T. I do agree that lower T means less potential androgenic activity as well as available DHT. But bica's main mode of action might be mutating AR like enza, if that is indeed what it does.