Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[JaneyElizabeth]

Why do all of you start with, or even use without estrogen, AA's? I assume it is due to the fear that estrogen is more femininizing than AA's but I am not sure about that.

 

[Gergely]

Why do all of you start with, or even use without estrogen, AA's? I assume it is due to the fear that estrogen is more femininizing than AA's but I am not sure about that.

I don't think i would have developed further gyno if i stayed on spironolactone, bica is more "feminizing" than E2 and spironolactone combined.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I don't think i would have developed further gyno if i stayed on spironolactone, bica is more "feminizing" than E2 and spironolactone combined.

Interesting in that some have claimed that Bica is less impactful upon physical strength which I found spironolactone to cause, both in terms of fatigue and weakness.

 

[disfiguredyoungman]

Dilate our eyes? Our pseudo-vaginas?

I think it commonly refers to poking the terratoma ridden open wounds people like to call their vagina.

 

[Analogies]

Has anyone successfully had regrowth from increasing their estrogen levels without lowering their testosterone levels?

 

[John Difool]

If you keep T up then you will need AA & 5ARi based on your DHT. Bica is good for that Expect gyno even with high T as E2 will find its way to the breasts tissues and Bica will increase it. However raising E2 in a range that brings results will lower your T. Check E2 monotherapy. There is no magic. In fact this very thread shows the outcome of raising E2 and using AA in the first few pages

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

<raises hand?

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

No, I haven't used bica or CPA. I take 10 mg MPA/Provera which I often forget to fill. Right now, the big 2 are oral minoxidil and climara and estrogel. I have put on very large amounts of weight over the past two weeks which doesn't thrill me. Since I go tomorrow for laser hair removal, I am not too worried about body or beard hair regrowth from oral minoxidil.

I stopped spironolactone in May and that was basically the point where my hair got long enough after my spironolactone shed to monitor going forward. It's funny because were I in male mode, I would be ecstatic with the progress and the crown finally filling in, but in a female context, I have higher aspirations and those seem to be within reach as well.

 

[Jacob Williams]

Man...I know Ikarus and Noah mentioned that they tried to combine CPA and Bicalutamide in the past and actually noticed a decrease in effectiveness. I always assumed that was just placebo because I couldn’t think of any medical reason why that would be the case, but my experience kind of matches up. I was on Bicalutamide alone for 8 months and didn’t notice a detectable difference in my hair. Now this might’ve been because I still had decent density and the drop from 80% to 70% is a lot less noticeable than the drop from 60% to 50%, especially with long hair, but I certainly feel like I’m regressing much quicker while on a combination of CPA and Bicalutamide. That being said I don’t have any other evidence of increased androgen activity. I don’t think my skin is more oily, nor more acne prone. I also haven’t noticed a change in my sex drive or erection strength. I guess I must be imagining things.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I find that hair improvement isn't automatic but that estrogen by itself in sufficient quantities is enough to stop hair loss and likely, in my case to result in essentially full regrowth in a male context but once the hair has been recovered, then the improvement stage of longer anagen and estrogenic skin effects take over.

 

[John Difool]

Did you do any blood work to validate that theory?

 

[pegasus2]

We know from that patent that even estriol is enough to stop hair loss and get some improvement, so I am not surprised you are able to get significant regrowth on estradiol alone. I've recently added it to my regimen, hoping that the sides will be delayed/less severe since I'm not on any oral AA. I'm only on topical dutasteride and RU.

 

[Jacob Williams]

Did you do any blood work to validate that theory?

I wouldn’t have a reference point. I don’t know what my levels looked like on Bica or CPA alone. I’m still not convinced they counteract each other. I think I was regressing on Bica alone it was just less noticeable because I had much better density at the time.

 

[John Difool]

We know from that patent that even estriol is enough to stop hair loss and get some improvement, so I am not surprised you are able to get significant regrowth on estradiol alone. I've recently added it to my regimen, hoping that the sides will be delayed/less severe since I'm not on any oral AA. I'm only on topical dutasteride and RU.

Would be interesting to see results of your blood work

 

[Androgenic Alpaca]

We know from that patent that even estriol is enough to stop hair loss and get some improvement, so I am not surprised you are able to get significant regrowth on estradiol alone. I've recently added it to my regimen, hoping that the sides will be delayed/less severe since I'm not on any oral AA. I'm only on topical dutasteride and RU.

Are you going to document your T/E blood levels? would be very useful knowledge

My plan is to upgrade from E3 to E2 if I'm not happy with the results of my current regimen in 4 or 5 months (without an oral AA) and it would be nice to know what to expect if I do go down that route

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I keep my ears open and again and again, when MtFs are having issues with their meds, it's always the AA.

Btw, the FtMs at the DIY site have been banished. I think that it has to do with testosterone being schedule 3 as a drug.

 

[John Difool]

I use 6mg topical E2. E3 didn't work very well.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I am not certain that anything works except for estradiol and perhaps estrone or a mega dose of estriol but I continue monitoring the progress of those on AA's without estrogen or who use 2 mg or less and I don't think that it works in any sort of predicable manner. Breast growth certainly is nothing predictable or that can be improved based upon current data and studies.

When I was using Life Flo Biestro, I had far "better" breast and *** results than anything above the neck and it took me two years to even bother trying for targets once I dumped spironolactone and decided that I could live with the feminine figure that I have which is stereotypical of cis-females not MtF's. HRT is maddening in that you have folks like me who did DIY and then HRT for six years and I have gotten excellent results. I literally could not complain about anything. Being small in size and stature is a huge aide which is something many/most MtFs refuse to accept but it shouldn't impact upon hair improvement, unlike hip and bust and facial feminization results. Others claim little to no external results at all.

I posted a hair study done on just one person who did have good results on spironolactone and only regrowth significant hair after adding spironolactone but she couldn't make targets. I have a very firm feeling about this, that adult female levels of estradiol are necessary for estrogen to work its magic on hair regrowth/improvement. I have also tried to depict the different way that hair appears to be restored for MTF's and unless we are talking about areas of bald scalp, hair "regrowth" is not based upon the temples and crown as in male pattern baldness but appears rather to take place in a context of regrowth/improvement affecting all of the scalp hair, not just the temples and crown. If true, it is similar to female pattern hair loss which is also non-localized compared to male pattern baldness.For some whites, there is a sort of kinky or curly stage along with the mullet effect that can often make hair unruly and difficult to comb. I am right at that point so we shall see.

Notice how the hairline improvement is based upon the center point and not the temples which are lagging more so but it is clear that when that little triangle in the center of the frontal hairline fills in, that much of the battle will have be at least temporarily won. At that point, I expect thickening and length increase due to increased anagen cycles.

With respect to @bridgeburn, as I recall, he was taking approximately 6 mg of estradiol

sublingually which is much more like 12 mg perhaps plus he was always taking an AA in normal or slightly lessened dosage which was probably efficacious in getting the ball rolling for him. I guess experiences are different but spironolactone weakened me so greatly that staying on it wasn't for me and I have just upped the estradiol and the estrogel in the scalp. Knock on wood; I prefer not to say too much still lest I crash and burn but everything since my massive spironolactone shed to baldness has worked as expected resulting in the term "benevolent shed" in terms of regrowth but it still sucked because it took a year to get back to a respectable length. I think that I still look better in the wig which is a specific form of irony, i.e. restoring hair and hairline as has been my dream for 36 years and then not being ready yet to bear the fruits. It still won't be long enough probably till New Year's.

 

[finastride23]

Are you losing ground from shedding or hair miniaturization?

hair miniaturization

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I partially agree with your and the mainstream medical view that Androgenetic Alopecia is due to genes. But there is always something called epigenetics and it has been substantiated numerous times. Environmental factors due to play a MAJOR role behind our good and bad genes.

What influences genes? What makes one generation healthy than the other? What makes Asian men less susceptible to pattern baldness?

Think about it from a birds eye view. It is not rocket science. It's what we primary put in our mouths, our stress levels, our sleep cycles, our entire lifestyle.

I love to always use the Japanese as a comparison here. Compare our diets with Japan (traditional not westernized). They avoid dairy (dairy is the culprit behind many diseases include Androgenetic Alopecia, limit meat consumption (primarily eat seafood), eat 12x the daily requirement of kelp (iodine is the source of thyroid regulation which is the source and TARGET for hair density and length), they eat more soy than any other nation (I have already pointed out numerous soy studies and how they play a role in hair growth. In fact some Japanese men are androgynous, whether it's the surplus of the phytoestrogens in soy in their diets or something else, I won't be surprised.), they drink more green tea than any other nation (numerous studies on green tea suppressing DHT, prolactin, and cortisol, and other stress hormones), and walk a lot. Their eating schedules are also not erratic.

And when you look at the U.S. what do you see? Doctors against iodine because they think it raises blood pressure (yea you morons the artificial table salt but not sea salt or pure grade iodine). Soy is poison. Yea GMO soys not organic, another moronic claim. Hamburgers, pizza, dairy, dairy, dairy, dairy, red meat, red meat, red meat, fatty foods, sodas, and other sh*t, etc. Overtime, of course our ancestors who eat sh*t food and live an unbalanced shitty lifestyle will pass off those shitty genes to the next generation. If that next generation repeats the same pattern, then those problematic genes are passed the next generation...so on and so forth.

So when you refer to genetics, it's the culmination of a prolonged healthy or unhealthy lifestyle over a set number of years that determines the quality of genes we get from our grandparents and parents. However, just because someone is born with sh*t genes, doesn't mean it's their fate. That's where epigenetics come into play which can change the outcome of your gene destiny.

I was 19 and had no time to do anything regarding gene destiny. Typically on baldness forums it is important to note that we are usually whites with this issue and I don't see too many non-whites since they have hair. American blacks do share a number of genes with white Americans.

At the same time, I don't think that Native American men who may bald less than white females have much of anything to inform us. I do not believe that dietary factors matter in baldness per se when we have the goal of hair regrowth. It might have been relevant beforehand but there probably is no data indicating that when Asian men go bald that they regain their hair any easier than do whites. If we were able to use epigenetics before the male pattern baldness horse shoe pattern then that might be worthwhile. But once follicles are dormant, it is very difficult to revive them.

I probably shouldn't say never but I don't expect the hairloss conundrum to be resolved except for how it is resolved now, meaning some hormonal medication will halt hair loss in many such as finasteride/Duta or AA's but whatever causes baldness in terms of cause and effect seems to involve some sort of injury to the dermal papillary that neither duta nor finasteride seems able to resolve. It's not clear to me that AA's "regrow" hair.

My thought is that AA's and reductase inhibitors are largely able to stop hair loss but that only estrogen changes the actual scalp environment to a degree necessary for dormant follicles to awaken and grow again. This still doesn't resolve the extreme differences in anagen length which seem linked to hair quality in females and again indicates that males aren't playing with a full deck of cards compared to females. It's the very essence of reproduction in a sense as hair loss is far more sexually dimorphic in whites and as we see, altering either T or E can wreak havoc with the reproductive system so we are hampered in our ability to make changes without impacting on male fertility.