Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[GRme11]

Directly from Pharmacology of CPA (Wiki): But unlike silent antagonists of the AR like nonsteroidal antiandrogens such as flutamide, bicalutamide, and enzalutamide, CPA, by virtue of its slight intrinsic activity at the AR, may be unable to fully inhibit androgenic signaling in the body, which may persist to an extent in some tissues such as the prostate gland.

Source:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacology_of_cyproterone_acetate

Now that I read again the whole thing, I believe that this partial agonist, it means that the AR signal it will still be activated. It will get some binding though, but again it won't be fully ''binded'', like NSAAs (Bica for example). So, I believe that AR upregulation it is not very possible to happen? Please correct me if I am wrong here. Thanks


(An escape or recovery phenomenon, in which testosterone levels increase over time, has been observed with long-term CPA monotherapy.In one study in aged men with prostate cancer, testosterone levels were initially suppressed by 70%, but increased to 50% of baseline levels between 6 and 12 months, remaining stable thereafter up to 24 months of therapy.).I believe that this has to do with the prostate cancer cells and the partial agonist effect, but this again is referring to cancer cells, instead of healthy cells for example.)


Forgive me If I am bothering or being annoying. I am just looking for some answers and understand some things. Thank you.

 

[GRme11]

You are not bothering anyone; this is the point of the site to discuss hormonal medications and their effects on baldness/regrowth. Those are pretty high-level questions you are asking and the answer may indeed lie in prostate cancer research. It also helps in a practical way if you mention your current regime because others might have tried something similar. Is there some aspect of the CPA experience that perturbs you?

I have only tried spironolactone, primarily at 200 mg and I can't recommend it but others do report good results. spironolactone's side effects are immediate/short-term while bica and CPA mostly have longer-term side effects which likely makes spironolactone the safest for long-term use.

Thanks for responding. As I mentioned before, that partial agonist effect of SAAs is troubling with my mind, but now that I reassess, I kinda understood that the partial agonist effect it’s like binding to the AR receptor and “deactivate” it in some extent BUT not fully like NSAAs, for example Bicalutamide. I am asking this because I am kinda worried if AR upregulation could happen from this agonist activity, and If somehow the things are going to get worse. But as I said I think it’s not the case and probably the partial agonist working like that: not fully binding to the AR , but this that left behind maybe still do harm or not like the success stories showed (only way to know is if you try/experiment). I haven’t tried CPA yet , I am just trying to understand how it will affect the things if I start it. I agree about Spironolactone. Thank you.

 

[Gergely]

I still find it humorous how gyno is a bug for most XY's who present as male while it is a feature for MtFs.

I mean, i don't really care about it. Just reporting on the sides

 

[Derelict]

I mean, i don't really care about it. Just reporting on the sides

Have you thought about trying 5/10mg of oral minoxidil?

 

[goku_black]

I dont kniw. Becoming a tranny is too much of an extreme measure

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

About 160~ hairs a day, not really a shed, but it could be better

Good
View attachment 151361

There is literally nothing to complain about in regard to that, that is really good.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

I dont kniw. Becoming a tranny is too much of an extreme measure

That's a ridiculous way of looking at it, and that's not an inevitability.

Enjoy having testosterone excess ravage your appearance though.

 

[Derelict]

I dont kniw. Becoming a tranny is too much of an extreme measure

Considering you are afraid to even taken finasteride i don't doubt that, i don't understand why you are so hestiant though, the mental sides are completely overblown imo. Im a complete mess mental health wise and neither finasteride or dutasteride has caused any issues.

 

[goku_black]

Considering you are afraid to even taken finasteride i don't doubt that, i don't understand why you are so hestiant though, the mental sides are completely overblown imo. Im a complete mess mental health wise and neither finasteride or dutasteride has caused any issues.

Im too late already. Tried it when i was nw3. Dident work.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

finasteride fucked me up pretty good but it was more the mental impact of the physical sides, they were not understated in my case, but my estrogen is very low and as I've said, I believe strongly now that finasteride only works if your body produces enough estrogen to split the difference of lowered DHT.

 

[goku_black]

finasteride fucked me up pretty good but it was more the mental impact of the physical sides, they were not understated in my case, but my estrogen is very low and as I've said, I believe strongly now that finasteride only works if your body produces enough estrogen to split the difference of lowered DHT.

finasteride only halt hairloss on non agressive balders. Those who recede slowly over years. Not people like me who lost most of their hair in 3 years

 

[Derelict]

finasteride only halt hairloss on non agressive balders. Those who recede slowly over years. Not people like me who lost most of their hair in 3 years

Why didn't you try dutasteride?

 

[goku_black]

Why didn't you try dutasteride?

I did. Nothing either.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

finasteride only halt hairloss on non agressive balders. Those who recede slowly over years. Not people like me who lost most of their hair in 3 years

That's really unfortunate, I feel for you. I still think you could probably could get -some- of your hair back although probably not a really low hairline with a transplant, it depends on whether or not that's worth it to you.

Personally, I think a "mature hairline" is about as useful to me as being bald or shaved right down. I am making sure that I keep what I have and regain it through estrogen therapy so that my requirements for lowering my hairline via transplant are as marginal as possible.

Fortunately that is very much a reality for me, I really wish that follicular cloning was available right now, your hair loss issues would be a mere matter of money if that were the case, but who knows it is probably coming sooner than we think.

 

[goku_black]

That's really unfortunate, I feel for you. I still think you could probably could get -some- of your hair back although probably not a really low hairline with a transplant, it depends on whether or not that's worth it to you.

Personally, I think a "mature hairline" is about as useful to me as being bald or shaved right down. I am making sure that I keep what I have and regain it through estrogen therapy so that my requirements for lowering my hairline via transplant are as marginal as possible.

Fortunately that is very much a reality for me, I really wish that follicular cloning was available right now, your hair loss issues would be a mere matter of money if that were the case, but who knows it is probably coming sooner than we think.

i had mature hairline when i was around 21 after minoxidil and trust its not the same. its way way better. yes woman can tell your losing it but they still love you and think you look good. the difference between this and nw3 or 4 for example is huge.

 

[franzliszt]

Only a certain way of looking at things but if someone researches neoteny, estrogen appears to increase neotenous appearance, which is generally seen as an improvement in facial attractiveness towards that of female/child-like appearance, often related to eye size and lip size and hair thickness and ability to be grown long and clarity of facial skin. Testosterone appears to do the opposite and it can take attractive female features and distort them which, except for muscles, perhaps, might be akin to ravaging one's appearance. I have seen beautiful cis-females on FtM HRT and I can only imagine how difficult that might be for parents because quite often, if not always, there is a resultant diminution in attractiveness, including hair loss which some might find shocking and a squaring of the face often noted in MtFs whose faces don't respond at all or much to HRT. Thus, the oval hairline and oval facial appearance of females. The lack of this oval nature together with a broad or square chin are often giveaways for MtFs trying to pass.

This "ravaging" isn't dissimilar to what I experienced between my initial two driver's licenses where I went from androgynous beauty to pretty much eh with a great increase in beard and body hair growth and diminution in hair volume. I experienced brow bossing, sort of a caveman-like aspect above the brows and below the hairline (which is supposed to be permanent but estrogen took care of that for me, too) and dermatitis both of which are testosterone artifacts and generally seen as things that impair neoteny. Anyone wanting a visual comparison should just google Leif Garrett, the former pop star and pretend boyfriend of Kristy McNichol. Mr. Garrett went from androgynous/feminine with gorgeous looks to someone who might be described as distinctly unattractive in the space of about four years, going from long blondish locks to baldness quite quickly and many of us cis-males on here know exactly how horrible it is to lose one's looks "overnight".

I agree, having been in a position where my testosterone was completely suppressed, I can't help but see testosterone as a posion. I've got an orchiectomy consultation coming up, my hope is to ween off anti-androgens and use only E2 injections.

 

[Derelict]

I agree, having been in a position where my testosterone was completely suppressed, I can't help but see testosterone as a posion. I've got an orchiectomy consultation coming up, my hope is to ween off anti-androgens and use only E2 injections.

Even something as drastic as that is not a guarantee that you wil get regrowth, the guy who castrated himself and used estradiol still had to use minoxidil to fill in his crown from what i remember.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

Only a certain way of looking at things but if someone researches neoteny, estrogen appears to increase neotenous appearance, which is generally seen as an improvement in facial attractiveness towards that of female/child-like appearance, often related to eye size and lip size and hair thickness and ability to be grown long and clarity of facial skin. Testosterone appears to do the opposite and it can take attractive female features and distort them which, except for muscles, perhaps, might be akin to ravaging one's appearance. I have seen beautiful cis-females on FtM HRT and I can only imagine how difficult that might be for parents because quite often, if not always, there is a resultant diminution in attractiveness, including hair loss which some might find shocking and a squaring of the face often noted in MtFs whose faces don't respond at all or much to HRT. Thus, the oval hairline and oval facial appearance of females. The lack of this oval nature together with a broad or square chin are often giveaways for MtFs trying to pass.

This "ravaging" isn't dissimilar to what I experienced between my initial two driver's licenses where I went from androgynous beauty to pretty much eh with a great increase in beard and body hair growth and diminution in hair volume. I experienced brow bossing, sort of a caveman-like aspect above the brows and below the hairline (which is supposed to be permanent but estrogen took care of that for me, too) and dermatitis both of which are testosterone artifacts and generally seen as things that impair neoteny. Anyone wanting a visual comparison should just google Leif Garrett, the former pop star and pretend boyfriend of Kristy McNichol. Mr. Garrett went from androgynous/feminine with gorgeous looks to someone who might be described as distinctly unattractive in the space of about four years, going from long blondish locks to baldness quite quickly and many of us cis-males on here know exactly how horrible it is to lose one's looks "overnight".

I wouldn't go that far with testosterone, I would describe testosterone as something that is useful but in even slightly the wrong proportion, makes things worse and begins exponentially doing so based on your physical tolerance.

Testosterone gives men desirably masculine features, it offsets fat accumulation which can get out of hand with too much estrogen. However too much testosterone will also cause your body's collagen to diminish, your skin to get oily, and your body to feel dry and less hydrated, and depending on what you're after that can put you further from where you want to be looks wise.

I definitely like how testosterone has improved some of my bone structure, I don't necessarily want to look childlike in that regard, but I don't really want the ageing effects of test and low estrogen either.

For many men who aren't going the full steroids route, it's all about balancing things out, and that's where I'm moving toward. I will be glad to get on topical estrogen because I'm tired of feeling so dry, I need a bit of extra fluid retention.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

Even something as drastic as that is not a guarantee that you wil get regrowth, the guy who castrated himself and used estradiol still had to use minoxidil to fill in his crown from what i remember.

That means there were other hormones at play and it probably wasn't testosterone which was the culprit, RIP his balls.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Hair instead of penis ? not , thanks.