Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[JaneyElizabeth]

That's 12.5 mg of minoxidil, which is too high for a starting dose. I use 0.1 mL (5 mg). Many on this site work up to 10 mg. There is some debate on what the minimum effective dose is, but there is a 24 week study with 5 mg / day that was efficacious for hair.

More liquid Min drizzling advice. Eh. Some males go higher. Peripheral hair increases seem to increase geometrically with dosage increases not arithmetically in my experience so far. @120

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

That's what I implied but let's be clear. This is not a value judgment just the definition:

"the infliction of serious damage on something". Oxford Press

I care not what anyone does but I also refuse to promote the idea that many have incessantly on here, that folks remove breast tissue and enter into this with this idea. Marky was obsessed with Bridge not having breast removal.

Serious damage is subjective, that would classify the entire discipline of cosmetic surgery as mutilation which is preposterous.

I'm going to be blatantly accusitory because that mindset is often accompanied with those who have a pathological resentment of those who have the means and ability to optimize their appearance beyond the means of the subject.

Where's the difference between "reconstructive surgery" and "cosmetic surgery" if surgical alteration is considered at a baseline to be "mutilation".

There is absolutely ZERO difference, it is entirely in your head and the moral rationalizations you might make to justify one over another, the ONLY thing that matters is the outcome.

Sometimes life circumstances throw people a shitty hand and we as a species have developed a set of clinical disciplines to offset these by surgical and therapeutic means. The moral aspect of this and the outcome are what matter the most.

Perhaps because you're kind of transitioning, I don't know you might want to equate cosmetic or reconstructive surgery with chopping off one's dick or turning it into a vagina because it doesn't seem fair that one holds inherent moral value and the other is basically a delayed death sentence, but that's basically what it is, one holds objective restorative value, the other does not in the long term. Gyno surgery is NOT the same as a woman hacking their tits off to become a man, sorry sounds unfair, but not the same at all.

Restoring or optimizing one's body to look better is nowhere even close to the same as chopping off the only significant source of pleasure and definitively masculine characteristic a man has. One is in pursuit of improvement, the other is chasing an ideal that will never be achieved without a cost so great that statistically it will induce regret and a desire to kill one's self.

TL/DR Cosmetic surgery is awesome, gives people their lives and confidence back, it's great and it's a crowning achievement and a milestone for modern medical and technological advancement.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

spironolactone doesn't cause osteoporosis, unlike other AAs. because it doesn't significantly decrease sex hormones. It is indirectly estrogenic because it blocks the androgen receptor keeping T higher in the blood which aromatizes into estardiol.

I am not aware of this point but it is of interest to the younger folks....

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Serious damage is subjective, that would classify the entire discipline of cosmetic surgery as mutilation which is preposterous.

I'm going to be blatantly accusitory because that mindset is often accompanied with those who have a pathological resentment of those who have the means and ability to optimize their appearance beyond the means of the subject.

Where's the difference between "reconstructive surgery" and "cosmetic surgery" if surgical alteration is considered at a baseline to be "mutilation".

There is absolutely ZERO difference, it is entirely in your head and the moral rationalizations you might make to justify one over another, the ONLY thing that matters is the outcome.

Sometimes life circumstances throw people a shitty hand and we as a species have developed a set of clinical disciplines to offset these by surgical and therapeutic means. The moral aspect of this and the outcome are what matter the most.

Perhaps because you're kind of transitioning, I don't know you might want to equate cosmetic or reconstructive surgery with chopping off one's dick or turning it into a vagina because it doesn't seem fair that one holds inherent moral value and the other is basically a delayed death sentence, but that's basically what it is. Gyno surgery is NOT the same as a woman hacking their tits off to become a man, sorry sounds unfair, but not the same at all.

Restoring or optimizing one's body to look better is nowhere even close to the same as chopping off the only significant source of pleasure and definitively masculine characteristic a man has. One is in pursuit of improvement, the other is chasing an ideal that will never be achieved without a cost so great that statistically it will induce regret and a desire to kill one's self.

TL/DR Cosmetic surgery is awesome, gives people their lives and confidence back, it's great and it's a crowning achievement and a milestone for modern medical and technological advancement.

Dude, It's expensive being me. $30,000 for gum transplants and now veneers. I have found short-cuts so far to avoid surgery but I support it for everyone for any reason. Go fight with E-Kitten not me.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

yes I think that is a good idea to use dutasteride once or twice a week with fina as that has been shown to inhibit more DHT than with fina alone.. I would still take the finasteride even on the dutasteride days just to be safe. I think the up-regulation thing is rare. As long as you don't take super doses of 2.5mg dutasteride like some people on here. that would be way more likely to cause an up regulation..


hmmm, I feel like maybe the issue is that your hair became minoxidil dependent. I personally believe that minoxidil does help and that it is required for maximum results however I view it as kinda like coffee. Coffee can give you a boost but it won't work if you are truly exhausted. I hear so many min stories about synchronized growth and shedding cycles, dependence, and initial results followed by a crash. minoxidil without proper androgen surpression is like stepping on the accelerater while the brakes are locked down. The car moves forward until the transmission fries.


yeah, try dutasteride once or twice a week. next step is switching to dutasteride everyday.. then next go to 50-100mg spironolactone, then increase by 50mg at a time. If it still doesn't work at 300mg (I wouldn't go higher than this) then cypro would be next, 25mg, then 50mg.. then finally increasing estradiol dosages, which is what is needed to get into castration range T levels, should be saved as final resort.

I disagree with most of this as do many. finasteride and duta is expensive and probably overkill. I did it for five years, lol. @122.

I am not big on the idea of dependent hair. If hair is restored, it's just hair. There could be synchronization issues but I don't think shedding is something that Bridge has a lot of personal basis to know about having started as a cueball with no significant sheds that I recall.... @122.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

if you want maximum results, use both. if
you want results without extreme feminization, only add oral min..

If you're ok with feminizing. but not ok with possible sides from minoxidil, ie. heart palpitations, bad effect on skin. then add only estradiol

keep in mind: (my skin is better even with minoxidil but minoxidil decreases collagen and estrogen increases collagen)

minoxidil gives faster results than estradiol, spironolactone, etc. but hormonal treatments are better for the longer term.

Yes.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

you should take dutasteride, or at least finasteride with bicalutimide. Bica raises the production of testosterone, therefore DHT should also go up. however it blocks the androgen receptor to prevent the effects of androgens. Although bica will generally win, there is still some competition for receptors. You can enhance the effect of bica by taking dutasteride with it, that leaves an decrease in the amount T turning to DHT, and more turning to E.. of course that makes a higher gyno risk.

the raloxifene should be effective against gyno. but you must start on it before gyno develops.. the effectiveness for hair, only using it will really tell. I've heard mixed anecdotes about whether ralox negatively affects hair or not. I have no experience taking ralox though.

understand your results may vary and there is risks to this.. good luck

Many say that raloxi works to dissipate breast tissue regardless of when used but again, few MtF's have what Bridge has amounted. There may be a threshold that is the point of no return though. @125.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

It's so weird hearing this haha. I was on 50mg cypro and decided to try spironolactone. so i first started by dropping to 25mg cypro with adding 100mg spironolactone a day, for a few weeks. then I dropped the 25mg cypro and upped to 200mg spironolactone.

Bridge altered AA's dosages in unison. @127

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

The ancient philosopher Plato would agree:

"But as it is, I have encountered others for whom it was not so, especially Sophocles. I was once present when the poet was asked by someone, 'Sophocles,
how are you in sex? Can you still have intercourse with a woman?'
'Silence, man,' he said. 'Most joyfully did I escape it, as though I had
run away from a sort of frenzied and savage master.' I thought at the
time that he had spoken well and I still do. For, in every way, old age
brings great peace and freedom from such things. When the desires cease to strain and finally relax, then what Sophocles says comes to pass in every way; it is possible to be rid of very many mad masters. "

- Republic, 380 BC

Plato is in favor of HRT. I love the Greeks.... @134.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

That can mean different things to different people. some of it is real, meaning based on biology, while some of it is society and socialization. and some of the stereo-types are exaggerations of the truth. Women are more emotional, but men are more emotional than they appear because its less socially acceptable for them to act too emotional. It was probably noticed long ago in ancient times that women are generally more emotional and so the public image of femininity formed based on that reality. once that trait became assigned to it then it became less socially acceptable for men because humans love to categorize everything and put everything into a box. When someone is "in between" in any way of , it becomes disturbing to others because they have more difficulty categorizing that person which doesn't fit into their normalized perception. They don't feel like having to go and get another box or changing their belief system. This is why gay and trans people have faced so much trouble. and also why most men are reluctant to give up their testosterone for hair.


It is extremely stupid that If men show that we deeply care about hairloss we are often told, "its just hair" or criticized that we are being vain. And it pisses me off that women put on make-up, fake eyelashes, get peach fuzzed waxed, shave their legs, etc.. and I'm vain because I care about A PART OF MY BODY WHICH IS LITERALLY f*****g DYING!!!!!

About Makeup, here's my honest opinion. A little bit could help accentuate natural features and I guess I can respect the artistic skill required but even on women I can't help but be bothered by that its fake., what I don't understand is, how can I enjoy an illusion knowing it is one? this is why I wouldn't get a hair transplant., If you want longer eyelashes and put on fake ones that is cheating in my mind. but actually growing longer lashes by using minoxidil, Lanoprost, biotin, etc. is not cheating. Of course, if make up interests you I don't care what you or other men do. but I can't help but think this way. . But i do agree with you that its so stupid for a man interested in makeup to buy the overpriced stuff just because it says for men on it.. They have gyno hiding shirts for men which are basically like a longer version of a sports bra. It doesn't disturbed me as a man wearing a sports bra to hide gyno or keep the boobs from getting hurt while running too fast cause its literally just a piece of fabric.

There really isn't anything biological that makes women in particular want to wear make up or dresses. that's just culture. Scottish men can wear kilts while still being considered masculine because its not considered unmasculine in that culture. and why the hell is pink considered feminine.. ITS A COLOR. How does a color objectively have anything to do with gender? I doubt that women are biologically programmed to choose pink. They are conditioned that way. Did God, or the Universe decide to assign the color pink to females. no, society arbitrarily did.

What pisses me off the most is that men are shamed for caring about vanity in any way other than muscles.. In Asia I often see collagen drinks and they always have some pink or flowery designed. In China, I often saw so many women keeping the sun off of them by using umbrellas even though its not raining but I never saw a man do that.. And anytime there are anti-aging serums by Olay or whatever company. They are always marketed toward women!!! If something is scientifically shown to be good for skin, Why would anybody of any gender not put it on?!! Am I as a man just supposed to not give a sh*t about getting wrinkles or going bald?!? makes no f*****g sense at all.


Very true, being too feminine is associated with being gay. Some people even use the word interchangeably. That would probably make gay men who are not in the closet more comfortable doing sh*t like wearing make-up like you said and etc. which in turn reinforces the stereotype.
And guys often make fun of other guys by calling them gay. But in reality the only thing that makes any man gay is liking guys while not liking girls.


I notice this more and more. For some reason, men believe that as men they are obligated to like testosterone.. It almost seems contradicting not to.. That ego, that perceived sense of what we are and how we are supposed to behave trumps over everything.. normality is scary. Parents disown their own children for not adhering to it, humans have killed each other and done unspeakable acts of cruelty in the name of normality, embarrassment is one the strongest motivators.
nobody should try to be anything. and become so attached to labels that they are inflexible to anything else and loose all common sense. It is wrong to let our youth be destroyed by anything.

@137
Thread has rapidly devolved into a pointless debate about what's gay and not and whether makeup is okay and lots of other pointless stuff and poor Bridge has gotten dragged into this foolishness.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

It doesn't matter because many gods and angels are androgenous, it is a sign that he transcended over the human form, it is an upgrade, awaking the feminine within yourself is a beautiful experience, chosing masculinity over hair is useless because humans are born with hair, not all women love hypermasculine men, some women find the bald and bearded look disgusting, no actually many women agree on that

This is my shtick....but less well thought out by someone who, sigh, castrated themself.... And I don't mean orchiectomy. He did it to himself. I understand the frustration but.... Please no one. Hair is not worth this. I have been there but orchiectomy is simple and not expensive albeit hard to reverse....

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

hmm, and women often put on weight after menopause

two thoughts come to mind..

1; God must be an a**h** then for making me bald when there are even Nazi leaders with full heads of hair.
God must not like me to create me as someone who loves hair just to make baldness my destiny.

2. If a beaver builds a dam, is that dam part of nature? are birds nests part of nature?
If we humans are a creation of nature then our behavior is also part of nature. and Because only natural elements existed at first then even unnatural substances are natural because the machines and materials we used to make those things had to come from nature.

@139. It never occurred to Bridge to think of the divine as female.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

even ifthey did experience it, they may still say the same because we are men and its normal for men to go bald. and we are weak if we care about going bald. but it is not normal for a woman to go bald so thats so much worse..

well theres the water ape theory.. and the sun collector theory that a bald head is to get more vitamin D..
btw, estrogen upregulates the vitamin D receptor.. but I used to expose my scalp to the sun, even once sunburned it on purpose. It didn't work lol

Yes, it occurred always as far as we know among Indo-Europeans and Semites. It is written about from the dawn of writing as afflicting males primarily.

I don't think baldness is mysterious at all even with the mouse studies. It appears to be a secondary sexual effect related to testosterone and dominance. It's very common in the animal world. Mice largely lack sexual dimorphism for what it's worth.

I find most of the discussion related to baldness being disease-like to be fatuous and related to inability to make obvious connections with testosterone and dominance in the animal world.

I understand the questions related to the murcine studies but most of this is a waste of time when people try to conjecture about all of this. There are mutations in some species and there is sexual dimorphism essentially all over the animal kingdom. The Vitamin D hypothesis (yes I have conjectured about that) makes little sense since other northern people have essentially zero baldness among males and females like those deriving from Siberian genotypes and there is apparently much less among Africans. As soon as any race mixes with whites, baldness pops up. You see in Mexico and South America and it's obvious.

Is This Russian Landscape the Birthplace of Native Americans?

The genetic homeland of Native Americans is a small mountainous region in southern Siberia, a new study suggests.

www.nationalgeographic.com

Rooster feathering, androgenic alopecia, and hormone dependent tumor growth: What is in common? - PMC

Different epithelial organs form as a result of epithelial - mesenchymal interactions and share a common theme modulated by variations (Chuong edit. In Molecular Basis of Epithelial Appendage Morphogenesis, 1998). One of the major modulators is the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I should let everyone know that for the past few weeks, maybe 3 ish weeks? I have not been taking spironolactone or any androgen receptor blocker..

I've been taking this regimen: 6 mg estrofem (2mg 3 times per day) sometimes 8mg out of paranoia, plus .5mg dutasteride, and 10mg oral minoxidil every other day, and also one Diane 35 pill per week..

I have been on HRT for so much time that I probably do not absolutely need an anti-androgen and Estradiol can suppress my T well. My hair continues to improve, I'm still finding a few new ones popping up... my T may have raised slightly, but I'm not sure? maybe I'm paranoid.. If I sweat alot, but only if its alot. I notice some body odor, but still it is pretty weak. I have no acne still, no oiliness, gyno, mood and libido effects, everything is same, and the hair on my left hand has recently been progressively thinning.

However, I am not planning to drop androgen blockers anytime soon, I was taking a bit of a break from them, giving my liver a break.. because tomorrow I have been planning to start a super ultra synergistic new regimen.. I write about this later

• Feb 27, 2019

• Add bookmark
• #2,860

Guido said:


Is this your current regime? when you say 1 diane 35 per week ... do you mean one box per week or only one pill per week? I thought you used cyproterone

I should let everyone know that for the past few weeks, maybe 3 ish weeks? I have not been taking spironolactone or any androgen receptor blocker..

I've been taking this regimen: 6 mg estrofem (2mg 3 times per day) sometimes 8mg out of paranoia, plus .5mg dutasteride, and 10mg oral minoxidil every other day, and also one Diane 35 pill per week..

I have been on HRT for so much time that I probably do not absolutely need an anti-androgen and Estradiol can suppress my T well. My hair continues to improve, I'm still finding a few new ones popping up... my T may have raised slightly, but I'm not sure? maybe I'm paranoid.. If I sweat alot, but only if its alot. I notice some body odor, but still it is pretty weak. I have no acne still, no oiliness, gyno, mood and libido effects, everything is same, and the hair on my left hand has recently been progressively thinning.

However, I am not planning to drop androgen blockers anytime soon, I was taking a bit of a break from them, giving my liver a break.. because tomorrow I have been planning to start a super ultra synergistic new regimen.. I write about this later @143.

Less and less reliable content after about 140 cause Bridge is largely absent.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

also, I will respond to everyone as soon as I can.. y'all probably notice Im having trouble keeping up with this thread along with my private messages.. plus I have school and a life so I may be slow but ill try.

People with hair have lives? @144

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

200 aint' good enough! pregnancy is like 2000!! >)

C'est moi, ca!

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I've heard people say estriol is too weak, but can't hurt, you could need a good amount though... also I remember seeing some people doing trials in 2018 on here... don't think there was any big progress and the thread fizzled out completely from what I remember.

It did indeed....

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I have zero T, or very close to it. I feel I am more than a man. I am a god. The God of Hair.

Sigh. God is a male concept used to oppress other genders. Anywhere where there is a prevailing notion that the Divine is male, we see war and oppression of people who don't conform to male and female stereotypes. At least use Hermes or his child for the divinity. This is somewhat tongue in cheek as Bridge appears to be completely unbiased in action but the concept is similar to using "they" for unknown people.... We will get there!

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

we are rebels against nature.. for some reason people find that disturbing.

There we go! @148

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

It's a dream for me to completely get rid of my facial hair; I have gone through a dozen of laser hair removal treatments for my facial hair and it has reduced the hair by around 70%, which is drastic. But I do believe that spironolactone and estradiol will additionally reduce my facial hair growth, which is inordinately desirable for me.

How much of an increase of scalp hair have you noticed? And what Norwood would you say you are now? (And what were you previously).

This is why MtFs even non-gendered might consider themselves female for oral Min dosages. I similarly have spent loads of beard removal of all three types, IPL, Laser and Electrocution and 'taint cheap. My beard had gotten scratchy again so I halved my oral Min dosage.