Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[JaneyElizabeth]

Buccal or sublingual increases absorption of E, and it absorbs more as E2 (more potent) rather than E1. The one downside is that you get shorter-duration and higher peak E levels compared to oral.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9052581/

Objective: To investigate the pharmacokinetic profiles of different doses of micronized 17 beta-estradiol administered by oral or sublingual routes.

Methods: Single doses of micronized 17 beta-estradiol were administered orally (1 mg, 0.5 mg) or sublingually (1 mg, 0.5 mg, 0.25 mg) to six postmenopausal women in a randomized clinical trial. We calculated pharmacokinetic parameters for estradiol (E2) and estrone (E1) of maximum serum concentration, time to maximum serum concentration, terminal half-life, area under the concentration curve, and oral clearance. Serum levels of E1 sulfate also were compared at 4, 12, and 24 hours after dosing.

Results: Sublingual administration resulted in rapid absorption with significantly higher E2 levels than did comparable oral dosing. Estrone levels did not vary with route of administration but correlated with the dosage administered. Estrone sulfate levels correlated with the dosage administered and also tended to be higher with sublingual administration. Sublingual administration resulted in a significantly lower E1 to E2 ratio during the 24 hours than did oral administration.

Conclusion: Sublingual administration of micronized 17 beta-estradiol results in a rapid, burst-like absorption into the systemic circulation, yielding high E2 levels that fall rapidly over the first 6 hours.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

nah, everbodies hardcore. not quite sublinguilly; I'm doing it buccally.

I've been told that I have "bambi" eyes which makes me give more youthful vibe. The eyes seem to open up more somehow

its really f*****g weird how family always noticed my hair loss, but after regrowing everyone seems to just remember that I've always had this much hair.
I didn't visit home for a year though. my grandma thinks that I'm not as muscular and asked if I was eating enough. She also said that my nose curve is different, but she likely may just not remember exactly how I was a year ago.
Everyone noticed that my hair is longer, but Only my Uncle pointed out anything else hair wise, saying he is convincedI dyed it cause its darker -___-

If you take enough of it and keep even levels, it can lower T by 95%

MtF's loooove Bambi effects....

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

why not everyday.

you are young and started meds pretty early so you likely don't need something nearly as harsh. finasteride and dutasteride raise E level a little. but not near enough to be infertile


basically. the cyproterone amount which should be used depends on the amount of E taken as well. If you don't take E then higher amounts of cypro would be needed to reach its max platue of T suppression. (although a low amount cypro alone does lower significantly too) which is around 70 something percent with cypro alone. Adding E with it is necessary to get into castrate range T levels, and less cypro can be taken with the combination.

but cypro is a hardcore drug, so you should probably try other stuff first.

E causes a reduction in amount of testosterone produced.
Its very possible to get to castrate ranges with taking E alone, however you would need to keep stable levels (above 300 pg/ if i remember right),

As every few hours or so the body will check the current amount of sex hormones and signal a certain amount to be produced based on that.

cypro gives extra buffer to that cause it reduces the GNRH signaling and has a long half-life, as well as blocking the androgen receptor. So even the small amount that might make it into your bloodstream will be unable to attach to those blocked receptors.

of course though, if you take enough estrogen for a long period of time, your balls wil shrink and it won't matter so much if your body tries to make more T.

cypro infertility is reversible, estrogen infertility is a lot harder.

probably. theres alot you can try besides it.


acne going away, dandruff, itching and hairloss going away, enhanced emotions, loss of crazy male libido, healthier skin, longer orgasms, loss of sperm, loss of body odor, shrunken balls, brain shrinking from change in white matter proportions, patchy beard, slower facial hair growth, losing your chest hair, female fat redistribution,

I would reccomend something weaker at first and only consider the full extreme regimen if the other stuff doesn't work or you really want more.

you just started finasteride, so just make your regimen a little stronger gradually and see what you can handle and are comfortable with.

If you do ever Actually consider this and are really worried about side effects, then freezing sperm is an option. althoygh i did read somewhere that babies born by IVF have slightly more birth effects. with that said, it is possible to get back fertility even after a few years on hormones, many have done it. its not really "proven" to be irreversible but they say that as a better safe than sorry kind of thing and there are some drugs that can jump start sperm again. Still, you might really want to stay safe at acceptable E levels.

switching to dutasteride or adding once a week will help, and youll have a bit more E without the fertility issue. You could also try oral minoxidil someday after awhile as it is more effective than topical, you can also take some progesterone to further reduce 5ar. Maybe a small amount of topical estradiol won't hurt, but keep it under 1mg.

so a regimen such as this;
dutasteride, progesterone, oral minoxidil, 1mg topical estrogel is still quite alot stronger than the typical Big 3 and at the same time its not nearly extreme as my regimen. combine this with your youth and it may give you your hair back miraculously.

If you lose ground someday, you could add a bit of spironolactone. 50mg-100mg, which will make the regimen stronger but spironolactone is not as extreme as cypro.

then if you need stronger progress to 200mg- 300mg spironolactone.

after that go extreme with cypro and estradiol.

of course, you can do what you want these are just some ideas.


Cypro will cause you to stop producing sperm but its reversible. Cypro does come with medical risks, I wouldn't reccomend staying on it long term. for a year or two is better.

DuckThisSheet said:


But can i raise the E level without lowering the T level? Or it will couse hormonal inbalance? Bcs i will still have high T and E level?

E causes a reduction in amount of testosterone produced.
Its very possible to get to castrate ranges with taking E alone, however you would need to keep stable levels (above 300 pg/ if i remember right),

Sounds familiar....

 

[Ticken]

Menopausal creams seem to be exempt from prescription requirements regardless of type re to the main three E's.

I'm guessing there is no prescription required for most e2 creams because they tend to be very low percentage concentration creams (usually .01% or less for an average otc e2 cream).

There's only one otc e2 cream that is made in a higher .1% concentration (that's 10x the concentration of most otc E2 creams and close to 2x estrogel's .06%). It's not formulated in an alcohol transdermal base (the way estrogel is) so it's very gentle but still efficacious for skin and scalp. It doesn't seem to raise E2 levels notably which depending if you are male, female or mtf might be considered a plus or a minus.

Ona's Estrogen cream, Estradiol (E2), 1mg, 3.5 oz Pump

Estrogen, Estradiol (E2) Cream 3.5 oz pump. 1 mg Estradiol (E2) per pump, 99 pumps per bottle. **NOTE: Some labels may say 0.1 mg Estradiol per pump, this is wrong, it is 1 mg Estradiol per pump. Soy, GMO and Fragrance Free. Healthy and natural preservative: Aspen Tree Bark Extract. This is a...

us.onasnatural.com

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

at Any angle they would see what looked like a diseased rat with patchy fur, and an angry scowl I often kept on my face.

I agree, I never denied that.

I would've done the same thing if I lived alone in a cave, but hypothetically had access to these meds

MorningGlory said:


Do you at least agree your regimen is inadvisable for most balding guys?

Bridege: I agree, I never denied that.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

And what exactly are your plans?

Because I'm something of a medical anomaly, and because of this I nearly died as an infant due to certain medical complications I've had since near birth, I've had a series of persisting issues that affect various aspects of how my body functions.

One of those things is adenosine production, which is critical to hair growth.

Up until recently I had been dealing with a lot of pretty bad issues that originally doctors thought was caused by hypothyroidism or hypocortisolism, because both of those things can cause it, but it turns out I have mitochondrial complications on top of everything else.

I have been taking adenosine intramuscular shots since November of last year and it's changed a lot, I no longer feel cold and weak at times, it gives me amazing energy. And surprise surprise, adenosine is critical for hair growth, hence why adenogen and why minoxidil works so well.

The thing is, I can't just be banging adenosine shots all day, so I am going to try a pilot experiment, I'm going to try mitigating DHT synthesis while simultaneously taking low(er) doses of creatine monohydrate, which is a precursor to the production of adenosine triphosphate.

The age old problem with creatine supplementation is that it is associated with hairloss, but how can this be when adenosine is necessary for hair growth, is there a way to pair one effect away and retain the other?

My hair has been improving as well because of the increased adenosine shots and supplements I'm taking, but I want to see if I can use creatine to boost that up even more and increase cellular hydration without incurring detrimental effects to my hair.

It's going to be an experiment and I think I can actually manage it with the estrogel as a buffer.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I'm guessing there is no prescription required for most e2 creams as they tend to be very low percentage concentration creams (usually .01% or less for an average otc e2 cream).

There's only one otc e2 cream that is made in a higher .1% concentration (that's 10x the concentration of most otc E2 creams and close to 2x estrogel's .06%). It's not formulated in an alcohol transdermal base (the way estrogel is) so it's very gentle but still efficacious for skin and scalp. It doesn't seem to raise E2 levels notably which depending if you are male, female or mtf might be considered a plus or a minus.

Ona's Estrogen cream, Estradiol (E2), 1mg, 3.5 oz Pump

Estrogen, Estradiol (E2) Cream 3.5 oz pump. 1 mg Estradiol (E2) per pump, 99 pumps per bottle. **NOTE: Some labels may say 0.1 mg Estradiol per pump, this is wrong, it is 1 mg Estradiol per pump. Soy, GMO and Fragrance Free. Healthy and natural preservative: Aspen Tree Bark Extract. This is a...

us.onasnatural.com

Wow. Thanks for that! So many folks get to the point where they are ready to try estradiol but having to send checks internationally and wait several weeks is a drag so I have been pointing to Life Flo for years as you get it in 24 to 36 hours on your porch and you know it will arrive. Progesterone creams are worth a try for some for feminization and hair improvement but note, progesterone is still a female hormone and it's more estrogenic than androgenic, at least for most it appears.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I appreciate @bridgeburn ’s contribution too and don’t even rule out his regimen for myself one day, my criticism is qualified and I think he’s intelligent enough to understand that.

Yes. Some young guys know what they want and are brilliant but most are in a chaotic spiral of desperation where they just can't decide perhaps without therapy or seeing an endo. at 99

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Because I'm something of a medical anomaly, and because of this I nearly died as an infant due to certain medical complications I've had since near birth, I've had a series of persisting issues that affect various aspects of how my body functions.

One of those things is adenosine production, which is critical to hair growth.

Up until recently I had been dealing with a lot of pretty bad issues that originally doctors thought was caused by hypothyroidism or hypocortisolism, because both of those things can cause it, but it turns out I have mitochondrial complications on top of everything else.

I have been taking adenosine intramuscular shots since November of last year and it's changed a lot, I no longer feel cold and weak at times, it gives me amazing energy. And surprise surprise, adenosine is critical for hair growth, hence why adenogen and why minoxidil works so well.

The thing is, I can't just be banging adenosine shots all day, so I am going to try a pilot experiment, I'm going to try mitigating DHT synthesis while simultaneously taking low(er) doses of creatine monohydrate, which is a precursor to the production of adenosine triphosphate.

The age old problem with creatine supplementation is that it is associated with hairloss, but how can this be when adenosine is necessary for hair growth, is there a way to pair one effect away and retain the other?

My hair has been improving as well because of the increased adenosine shots and supplements I'm taking, but I want to see if I can use creatine to boost that up even more and increase cellular hydration without incurring detrimental effects to my hair.

It's going to be an experiment and I think I can actually manage it with the estrogel as a buffer.

Hello Dogo!

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Ok, you caught me. I'm cunningly promoting my agenda of convincing men with hairloss to chemical castration so they'll be infertile and I will purge the f*****g baldness genes from the human race!! Bwhahahahahaha *evil laugh

That dude had already decided to go on it whether I promote it or not. and its true though, its a neuroprotective neurosteriod. There's measurable increase in dendrite spines 30 minutes after taking a dose of estradiol.

and he has no balls to shrink anyway, hell be totally infertile even if he went on T.

and gyno, we all know about that. but c'mon it Can be covered with the right clothing and method, etc. Nobody is gunna think its strange to wear a shirt all the time, they will think its strange if you wear a hat all the time.
yeah gyno can be disturbing to some but it can be removed with surgery and then its gone forever.

View attachment 107534

but Hairloss thats worse than gyno, cause you can't gain any higher number of hairs with surgery, you just change the location and risk shock loss and losing them again years down the road.


Equally, people may also regret Not doing it. You can make decisions to alter your body as long as it is an informed decision. and I don't reccomend everybody jumping into totally chemical castration. just a few posts ago I advised @DuckThisSheet to try something weaker.

No risk no reward. To conquer without risk is to triumph without glory.

I signed up for military at 17, at 18 boys are allowed to smoke tabbaco and get a tattoo, consent to sex, and in some countries drink alcohol.

Is this areola enlargement a bug or a feature, even for cis-guys. Many would say feature. Virtually MtF's identifying at least partially as female see this as a feature.

You pays your money and you takes your changes as per Bridge: No risk; no reward.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

Hello Dogo!

Hidy ho.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

So I just finished a week of raloxifene and it was doing a great job of reducing gyno in such a short time but just like last time after a week I started shedding heavily and I just cant stand that sh*t. My hair is still too thin to sustain a long period of shedding while still looking good. I think I'm gonna run another 3 months of Cypro and Estrogel and then run a 2 month long cycle of ralox. My hair just reached a new level of thickness and I cant bear to go back to where I was. I've come to the conclusion that I will be much happier with a full head of hair and man boobs then no hair and no gyno. So worst case senario is the ralox cant turn back the gyno enough and I will have to start saving money for gyno surgery. I am now willing to accept that possibility.

An interesting thing i've noticed since I started this regimen is women have been smiling at me way more than before and they just seem happier to see me. Now granted part of that is because I've been in better moods lately because of my hair doing much better but I'm noticing it from girls I just pass by on the street as well. A woman the other day just told me she reallly likes the way my hair is now and told me not to change it. Thats literally the first compliment Ive had on my hair in about 4 years. At the rate my hair is going I wont have to use any toppik at all in a month. I'm pretty stoked.

Absolutely about the friendly faces. Wolfpac is doing a lot of good research but he keeps going on and off and trying different things. Note Bridge and I have made subtle changes but the direction is always E upwards so if people remove a key part of their cocktail then go slow and maybe up E to make up for less spironolactone. Slow titration from low amount is best except it also favors breast development. Some might want to experiment if they are committed to MtF approaches with starting fairly high, say 2 to 6 mg SL and then titrating upwards to 300pg/ml and whatever you do try to stay there. If you don't test with a large stack it is hard to know what is doing what so try to stay going in the upwards direction. 200 to 300 levels pg/ml might work more or less like a lights switch in terms of always moving forward. For more robust growth, consider oral min but it does have some anti-estrogenic effects above ~5mg daily or even above 2.5 mg daily for some.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Yes, estrogel is estradiol. What causes growth resumption? If there is no estradiol, then hair growth causes testosterone. I am not kidding. Hair growth needs a hormone. The main thing that would not be DHT. And growth causes a hormone. This is either estradiol or testosterone. If you remove all the hormones at all, then all hair will fall out, there will be osteoporosis and you can die and get depressed. When taking cypro estradiol rises, and if you block both testosterone and estradiol completely, you can die. In the body should always be hormones.

This sort of "information" is dangerous to me. Lexus has a lot of knowledge and half of what he says makes sense and then other parts seem to based not on the literature but on conjecture. I feel strongly that expecting people to alter gylycemic levels and HGH levels and PG2 and all of the rest is a very strong hindrance to the rest of us mortals and it rarely seems to improve results. We simply don't know all the reasons why RI's, AA's and different E's do what they do but when people come on state things categorically, beware. I have seen folks with stacks of things 20 something long and it's obsessive and honestly doesn't promote even research because there is no blind testing and there's often a maze of contradictions. One honest PG2 guy stated that he was bewildered it didn't work because the flow chart was perfect, sigh.

Stick with what we mostly know and don't go off the deep-end in my opinion. Bridge and I are using stacks that are about as much as anyone can deal with and I advise people that plunging into prostaglandins is probably a frustrating dead-end.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

He will not, but the "crater-cup" after bad surgery looks like this

Spoiler: Some nipples, so i hide it in spoiler :d

View attachment 109690

I do not recommend this path to anyone save FtM's with the removal. The goal of this is not mutilation in my view but eh. Ymmv. at 107. The thread is still fascinating to me, how the folks come and go and it's like the Bridge is the Oracle of Delphi of hair regrowth with Aphrodite guiding his answers....Yep. Love Greek lit and mythology. Chimeras especially....

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

hey, that's good to hear. the regrowth isn't always linear, seems to move up and down some like the stock market but still goes up overall. The fuzzies for me increased in number, very slowly gradually got better. maybe every 3 months or so slightly thicker. I also have the somewhat "semi-circle" having layers of regrowth, in the layers closer to the center the regrowth is more difficult while further away from that is easier.

I would agree but it honestly doesn't work like that, at least on my level. estradiol does increase libido in a way, but it is a different kind of libido.
I believe low T And low E would be less libido than low T and high E, for me at least its that way. But the low T high E state will not give the crazy type libido that testosterone would, but more sensual type.




yes

you haven't been balding too long it sounds like. So don't go too extreme just yet. You could consider switching from topical minoxidil to the oral version, which is more effective (although possibly more risky). You could also consider using a topical corticosteriod, there was a guy somewhere on this site here that used topical minoxidil before without results and quit, then later restarted with cortisone added to minoxidil and regrew some minor crown balding. But don't use too much, cause it can cause skin atrophy .

if dutasteride isn't working. Although you could give it more time since you only started in October. then an anti-androgen would be the next logical step. You might get gyno with cypro but maybe not. I think trying some cypro for 6 months or so and see how it goes then re-assess would do well.

Knowing what I know now, probably I'd do a bit more than the big 3.. just in case

I would agree but it honestly doesn't work like that, at least on my level. estradiol does increase libido in a way, but it is a different kind of libido.
I believe low T And low E would be less libido than low T and high E, for me at least its that way. But the low T high E state will not give the crazy type libido that testosterone would, but more sensual type.

Hairghast said:


@bridgeburn Hello, It might sound hilarious but you are like a hero for me!

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

i have been on minoxdil 5 percent and finasteride 1mg but no results i am vexed.my male pattern baldness is horse shoe shape due to 10years of fapping

Masturbation does not cause hair loss in males, females or other. Goddess knows, when is this shibboleth going to stop. People who are balding need stuff that's fun and especially during a pandemic. I absolve all from guilt about solo sex. It won't affect anything either way. Beards, baldness and masturbation, especially in males are of course all correlated since they imply sexual maturation. @109

 

[Gergely]

I do not recommend this path to anyone save FtM's with the removal. The goal of this is not mutilation in my view but eh. Ymmv. at 107. The thread is still fascinating to me, how the folks come and go and it's like the Bridge is the Oracle of Delphi of hair regrowth with Aphrodite guiding his answers....Yep. Love Greek lit and mythology. Chimeras especially....

hmmmm might as well have tits at that point

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I noticed a strange thing. In addition to Avodart, I take 1 mg of estradiol. So this estradiol increases my libido. I feel like in 20 years. And a lot of energy. Maybe in my body estradiol turns into testosterone? The formula is very similar.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

No!

Yes they are similar in chemical composition as are P4 and spironolactone and other meds. They all derive from cholesterol molecules. It is amazing how similar they are chemically but all of us produce more T than E in terms of volume even females. That's why the denotion is so different with pg vs. ng /ml. Somehow estrogen defeats the big bad T and turns it into E. Breaking down DHT is far more problematic. @110.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

Nah, thankfully E cannot be turned into test.

It's quite possibly that the avodart is increasing your testosterone somewhat, and estradiol does have some other beneficial effects, people tend to villainize estrogen, but it can improve aspects of male health as well.

Like I said, a lot of guys have no idea how much estrogen is circulating in their bodies and have been told a lot of non-truths about what role estrogen plays in the body of a healthy guy.

I'm honestly glad my libido has gone down a bit from the estrogen, it was getting really stupid, I don't need to feel like I have to f*** every single day, it's more of a burden than it is anything else, and I'm not working in p**rn so that's not really a plus.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

hmmmm might as well have tits at that point

I do my best to help folks avoid them but facts is facts. We are walking a very slim tight rope here complicated by the fact that many MtF's like us hair folks will try and have tried everything to develop them and they become often just as despondent. BA is no more a solution for many of us than transplants are for folks on here. We are defying nature and yet, doing reasonably well in the hair field.