Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[I'mme]

I wish there was a way to stop this eternal shedding.

I think a topical AA would do. Somebody has to take the plunge to try topical Bicalutamide.

 

[Ein]

What is wrong? You said, that is wrong and went on to explain what I said was right?! Sorry I did not get this.

Did your father see any improvement?

It's so wrong that even after such extreme regimen, we have you suffer this eternal shedding, while those with finasteride don't experience this forever.
Also, my father did experience improvement, but he goes on and off because of his gynecomastia, and he loses all the progress. Sigh!

 

[Ein]

I think a topical AA would do. Somebody has to take the plunge to try topical Bicalutamide.

That's too much of a commitment for me. I couldn't started minoxidil, but didn't because of the commitment issues, it'd ruin my hairstyle that I keep intact for a week, has apparent aging effects, hypertricosis, etc. I have no time for any topicals on the scalp. Just Estrogel for the hairline is possible.

 

[Ikarus]

Nope, I haven't got any tests in forever. So, I can't attest to your claims. But I feel like I'm doing good. Also, a couple of days ago, I started using Estrogel (0.06%, meh) on my hairline and face, because even if my hairline is very round and low, it's not symmetrical and I've got a bunch of fuzzy hairs on the left side of my widow's peak and I want my hairline to come down to the lowest point of my widow's peak, even if it's like 50% scanty so I can use Dermmatch to make is symmetrical and awesome AF.
There's a concern though that's being raised lately about its metabolism to metabolites like estriol and estriol sulphate.
Anyone got any suggestions? (I know, I know, I'm being very petty, and I'm sorry for that.)

You should add Estrogel as part of your routine, to lower your T!

 

[Ein]

You should add Estrogel as part of your routine, to lower your T!

Yeah, but I don't know how much I'll require since the only concentration available is 0.06% and I need to think about the areas of application and its metabolite formation too.
Got any suggestions?

 

[Ikarus]

Yeah, but I don't know how much I'll require since the only concentration available is 0.06% and I need to think about the areas of application and its metabolite formation too.
Got any suggestions?

Use 2mg/day of estrofem buccally! I am doing that currently, and from my last blood test my T was 136 ng/dL. And whilst you are doing that, you can use estrogel on your stomach to maintain more consistent levels, although it might not be entirely necessary... Feminisation isn’t bad, it’s minor!

 

[I'mme]

Feminisation isn’t bad, it’s minor!

So basically, a boy becomes a prettyboy with soft, supple skin, cute looks, clear skin, better complexion etc??? (and of course, better hair - how the heck could I have forgotten this!!)

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

I find it so weird that not even accutane got rid of my back acne... But bicalutamide somewhat did? It’s crazy what androgen deprivation therapy does for us!

I had persistent chest acne for years that completely cleared up in 3 months of spironolactone/estradiol. So yeah, androgen deprivation can be great for any acne.

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

Although I don't entirely regret taking Accutane, I do regret not making myself more knowledgable on it. I didn't realise how truly damaging it is on our bodies; I was mainly caught up in the mindset that it clears acne, and I only wanted that. I believe fate was signalling to me that Accutane is not great, especially when it bought my ALT levels to above 170...

Accutane is the worst drug I've ever taken that I've never completely bounced back from. Still always have to use chap stick. And I never had any sign of hairloss prior, but about 7 months into an accutane course my scalp started unbearably itching and hair was falling out like crazy, which didn't subside after stopping it.

 

[Ein]

I was also on Accutane from three months into Bicalutamide for six months. I thought that the shedding was supposed to stop after those three months, but then Accutane happened and here I am now. It's been one year since I stopped Accutane, but I'm still shedding. I can't really say if it was Accutane or Bicalutamide that helped my acne, but I hate that drug so much. My lips were destroyed, my hair was everywhere, it's the worst drug ever.
I'm using other retinoids (Adapalene and Tretinoin) on my face for some uneven skin texture and obviously the bonus anti aging benefit, and I love use them. Even my under eyes and eyelids love them, although they were supposed to be sensitive.

 

[Ikarus]

So basically, a boy becomes a prettyboy with soft, supple skin, cute looks, clear skin, better complexion etc??? (and of course, better hair - how the heck could I have forgotten this!!)

In all honesty, it depends on your face structure... It’s minor feminisation, for sure. Transgender women have to get facial feminisation surgery for a reason, and that’s because they still appear like a male but they just look like a more feminine male. I just appear more neotenic... Main concerns are gynecomastia, testicular atrophy and permanent infertility; those are generally a big no for most people.

 

[Ikarus]

Accutane is the worst drug I've ever taken that I've never completely bounced back from. Still always have to use chap stick. And I never had any sign of hairloss prior, but about 7 months into an accutane course my scalp started unbearably itching and hair was falling out like crazy, which didn't subside after stopping it.

Me too! I only used Accutane for a month, and now my lips are permanently chapped... So glad I bulk-bought Aquaphor... In all honesty, the side effects of ADT are much more tolerable compared to the side effects of Accutane...

 

[Ikarus]

I was also on Accutane from three months into Bicalutamide for six months. I thought that the shedding was supposed to stop after those three months, but then Accutane happened and here I am now. It's been one year since I stopped Accutane, but I'm still shedding. I can't really say if it was Accutane or Bicalutamide that helped my acne, but I hate that drug so much. My lips were destroyed, my hair was everywhere, it's the worst drug ever.
I'm using other retinoids (Adapalene and Tretinoin) on my face for some uneven skin texture and obviously the bonus anti aging benefit, and I love use them. Even my under eyes and eyelids love them, although they were supposed to be sensitive.

Worst part is getting blood tests... Since my ALT levels went more than three times higher than it should be, I had to get blood tests basically every two weeks for months. I would get either two vials taken, or eight vials taken and it was painful! Sometimes I had minor bruising, and they had to put the needle into the bruise which was even worse... I had to visit hepatologists and even get an ultrasound on my liver, just because of Accutane!! I was only on 20mg/day for a month and it did so much...

 

[Ein]

In all honesty, it depends on your face structure... It’s minor feminisation, for sure. Transgender women have to get facial feminisation surgery for a reason, and that’s because they still appear like a male but they just look like a more feminine male.

Their faces don't become feminine at all. Hairline, brow line, jawline, everything remains the same shape, even nose stays huge. The facial bone structure remains the same, including the dreaded brow ridge and angular jaw. Facial hair including those bushy eyebrows remain the same. That's why facial feminization surgery is required, including bone shaving, rhinoplasty, blepharoplasty, laser/electrolysis, and pretty much all kinds of plastic surgery. They don't look like feminine men on HRT, they look like men, masculine men with good skin.

I just appear more neotenic...

We are able to look neotenous, because firstly we have good genes that make us retain juvenile characteristics and help us look younger for longer, and secondly, we didn't give androgens to destroy our facial bone structure (but I did get a small brow ridge).

 

[Ikarus]

Their faces don't become feminine at all. Hairline, brow line, jawline, everything remains the same shape, even nose stays huge. The facial bone structure remains the same, including the dreaded brow ridge and angular jaw. Facial hair including those bushy eyebrows remain the same. That's why facial feminization surgery is required, including bone shaving, rhinoplasty, blepharoplasty, laser/electrolysis, and pretty much all kinds of plastic surgery. They don't look like feminine men on HRT, they look like men, masculine men with good skin.

We are able to look neotenous, because firstly we have good genes that make us retain juvenile characteristics and help us look younger for longer, and secondly, we didn't give androgens to destroy our facial bone structure (but I did get a small brow ridge).

I mainly look more neotenic due to the effects of estrogen such as eyes which appear ‘larger’. I do have fuller cheeks, along with whiter skin and other estrogen effects. Luckily, I don’t have a brow-ridge; I have a forehead shape similar to those who are Korean.

Transgender people do experience feminisation, and they do appear more feminine but they just appear like feminine males. If people leave it too late, then feminisation will be insignificant for sure. I will put an example image which I found:

 

[I'mme]

In all honesty, it depends on your face structure... It’s minor feminisation, for sure. Transgender women have to get facial feminisation surgery for a reason, and that’s because they still appear like a male but they just look like a more feminine male. I just appear more neotenic... Main concerns are gynecomastia, testicular atrophy and permanent infertility; those are generally a big no for most people.

You realise two type of men are most sought after - the ones who are tall, handsome, smecks of high T; and the ones who are pretty - espouse both masculine and feminine traits, look cute and sweet. Take Shawn Mendes of about 3-5 years ago.

Spironolactone can cause permanent Infertility? Gyno surgery is cheap and one of the least risky. (I plan to opt for Rhino some 6 months down the line, but may instead have to opt for gyno if I get it.)

 

[I'mme]

@Ikarus this pic shows my face cut clearly. How would I look if spironolactone provides me some feminization? Would that be noticeable on this face?

 

[I'mme]

I think you would just look like a fem-boy, thats kinda what i look like, you can sorta compare the picture ikarus posted and apply it to your self, glowy skin, fuller cheeks, more feminine overall appearance in the face. Its a bit hard to imagine looking different but you can try to imagine what you would look like if those characteristics changed in your face.

I tried but I failed lol. I just hope I'm able to regrow with spironolactone with minimum to no sides.

Tbh, you look better now. You didn't have features to become top-tier /alpha male, whereas now ur face looks sweet as well as cute. More or less is the case with me.

 

[Ein]

@Ikarus this pic shows my face cut clearly. How would I look if spironolactone provides me some feminization? Would that be noticeable on this face?

Lol, no. Your face will remain the same. Spironolactone has little to no effect on appearance of male individuals, mostly because it just lowers testosterone a little, and binds to androgen and estrogen receptors a little. It possibly can't effect formation of DHT much, and presumably has lower binding capacity than DHT. Moreover, androgens have many permanent effects on male bodies, mostly because of the coactivator function, which initiates a cascade of effects after binding to the androgen receptors even if it's just for once. Henceforth, the gene expression is permanently turned on, until you put something in there to stop the gene expression, like a dioxin, more preferably attached to androgen receptors. It can be made receptor specific by using testosterone-dioxin, but it is definitely not recommended to anyone. Another way to mess up the gene expression is to prevent the transcription of virilization genes via corepressor function of a compound that attaches to the very same receptors.
Lucky for you, Spironolactone is neither a dioxin nor possesses corepressor function. On contraire, Bicalutamide has corepressor function, so the probability of having those permanent effects reversed is slightly increased, though not well established, because it's dealing with gene expression only via partial hindrance to transcription.

 

[I'mme]

Lol, no. Your face will remain the same. Spironolactone has little to no effect on appearance of male individuals, mostly because it just lowers testosterone a little, and binds to androgen and estrogen receptors a little. It possibly can't effect formation of DHT much, and presumably has lower binding capacity than DHT. Moreover, androgens have many permanent effects on male bodies, mostly because of the coactivator function, which initiates a cascade of effects after binding to the androgen receptors even if it's just for once. Henceforth, the gene expression is permanently turned on, until you put something in there to stop the gene expression, like a dioxin, more preferably attached to androgen receptors. It can be made receptor specific by using testosterone-dioxin, but it is definitely not recommended to anyone. Another way to mess up the gene expression is to prevent the transcription of virilization genes via corepressor function of a compound that attaches to the very same receptors.
Lucky for you, Spironolactone is neither a dioxin nor possesses corepressor function. On contraire, Bicalutamide has corepressor function, so the probability of having those permanent effects reversed is slightly increased, though not well established, because it's dealing with gene expression only via partial hindrance to transcription.

Ein just remember that I was so afraid of science that I chose Business/commerce the very first time I got chance ie, in +1.
I will take 10+ minutes to understand this whole reply haha