Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[Ikarus]

What would you thank most for your results - Spironolactone or Estrogen?

An update due to my research would be that, there is a study that says that Spironolactone cures (yes, I wrote cure). And then there is a study that concludes that serum levels of DHT aren't related to increase or decrease in hair fall. This finding is in compliance with what we have found: Emma and many other folks (Solomon for eg still says he is losing hair, same for bridgey, Ein) are still shedding/losing hair.
I will continue to read on this.

Shedding hair doesn’t equate hair loss...

 

[Ikarus]

Kiddo, ask Emma, ask many others who didn't regrew hair on HRT. Ask those many whose hairloss didn't even completely halt on HRT + Strong 5aris such as Dutasteride.

See, I'm not at all denying that they don't play a role - they play a major role. Just that a) demolishing them isn't a solution. b) they are simply a curse for a otherwise healthy cis-male.

Emma most likely didn’t experience regrowth and was still losing hair because her estrogen levels were through the roof.

 

[baba_yaga]

Emma most likely didn’t experience regrowth and was still losing hair because her estrogen levels were through the roof.

Estrogen thins hair?

 

[baba_yaga]

See, @baba_yaga. S/he is a trans women.

She (or he) must have done something wrong, meds order, timing, etc. Androgens are the most important factor that leads to hair loss.
Emma should at least try bica at high doses. Bica will stop hair loss. Also, as Ikarus said, shedding is not hair loss.

 

[Ikarus]

Estrogen thins hair?

If your E is too high? Yes.

 

[I'mme]

yeah spironolactone is some weak stuff

• Very weak, Reis. I mean it just blocks testosterone, reduces its levels;
• has estrogenic effects, reduces DHEA level, reduces effects of prolactin and decreases prolactin levels, increases progesterone and 17-alpha-hydropregesterone(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/1176584/);
• reduces inflammation and fibrosis( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24862968/)
• suppresses TGF-beta1 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24064061/) (which is related to progression of AA) ;
• And ofcourse, Blocks aldosterone receptors.

The results seen by jgray, alloftheabove, Americanhairlines, Audoyle, etc also speak highly of its weakness.

 

[Ikarus]

See, @baba_yaga. S/he is a trans women.

You need to actually mention her entire case. Her T might be within castration levels, but her E was almost dangerously high. Nonetheless, HRT isn't a for sure method to regrow hair, especially if you leave it too long. I believe the closer you deal with the issue, the better results you will have.

Another thing is, can you not call her 's/he'. She's obviously a transgender woman, but you are just conflating your right-wing views to disrespect her.

 

[bridgeburn]

Female hair loss cause is unknown. For men, it is caused by androgens.

female hairloss is caused by androgens. women have some androgens, albeit less. 5ar is produced locally in the scalp

 

[I'mme]

You need to actually mention her entire case. Her T might be within castration levels, but her E was almost dangerously high. Nonetheless, HRT isn't a for sure method to regrow hair, especially if you leave it too long. I believe the closer you deal with the issue, the better results you will have.

See I don't remember everything, so her E levels being elevated was out of my memory. He was saying that these are cures, I simply objected to that. His replies implied that if you bring T and DHT levels to 0 or negative, you won't lose hair and will see regrowth, which though is somewhat correct but highly oversimplified.

Re other, you're repeating exactly what I said.

 

[bridgeburn]

Possible side effect of HRT: extremely advanced debating skills.

I legitimately believe this, Lol

 

[Ikarus]

• Very weak, Reis. I mean it just blocks testosterone, reduces its levels;
• has estrogenic effects, reduces DHEA level, reduces effects of prolactin and decreases prolactin levels, increases progesterone and 17-alpha-hydropregesterone(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/1176584/);
• reduces inflammation and fibrosis( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24862968/)
• suppresses TGF-beta1 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24064061/) (which is related to progression of AA) ;
• And ofcourse, Blocks aldosterone receptors.

The results seen by jgray, alloftheabove, Americanhairlines, Audoyle, etc also speak highly of its weakness.

Spironolactone literally is a weak anti-androgen and there is no denying that. If it was that strong of an anti-androgen, it would be used for prostate cancer but it's not. Within one of the cases where the person used spironolactone, he continuously had to increase his dose to continuously see results. It's a weak anti-androgen, and it's long-term safety is questionable.

 

[bridgeburn]

Shedding hair doesn’t equate hair loss...

Yes! of course we will shed more when more hair exist which can be shed!

 

[baba_yaga]

If your E is too high? Yes.

Live and learn I guess haha

 

[Ikarus]

See I don't remember everything, so her E levels being elevated was out of my memory. He was saying that these are cures, I simply objected to that. His replies implied that if you bring T and DHT levels to 0 or negative, you won't lose hair and will see regrowth, which though is somewhat correct but highly oversimplified.

Re other, you're repeating exactly what I said.

But, we already know this information. It's been stated time after time on this thread that there isn't a guarantee that it will work. But, what is almost certain is that it will stop your hair loss from progressing. If you leave it too late, it will be much harder to 'reactivate' your follicles. It's like trying to work a broken vehicle, it might make some noise but that doesn't mean it's ready for the road.

 

[Derelict]

bah humbug, people dissing spironolactone, i won't have it.

 

[I'mme]

If it was that strong of an anti-androgen, it would be used for prostate cancer but it's not. Within one of the cases where the person used spironolactone, he continuously had to increase his dose to continuously see results. It's a weak anti-androgen, and it's long-term safety is questionable

Iirc, it has been used for prostate cancer for years. Now that there are better T blocking drugs like Bica, Daro etc, its use has been discontinued/reduced. Long-term safety of every androgen including, Cypro, Bicalutamide, Flutamide, is questionable.

Spironolactone literally is a weak anti-androgen and there is no denying that.

If you compare it to only T blocking effects of Bica(150), Cypro (50+mg), Fluta(700+mg), yes it is weak. How weak or strong it is, is debatable, and speaking very bluntly on it doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

 

[Ikarus]

Iirc, it has been used for prostate cancer for years. Now that there are better T blocking drugs like Bica, Daro etc, its use has been discontinued/reduced. Long-term safety of every androgen including, Cypro, Bicalutamide, Flutamide, is questionable.



If you compare it to only T blocking effects of Bica(150), Cypro (50+mg), Fluta(700+mg), yes it is weak. How weak or strong it is, is debatable, and speaking very bluntly on it doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Spironolactone has not been used for prostate cancer, however it's been wondered whether it can reduce the risk of prostate cancer.

Anyway, opinions are opinions...

 

[bridgeburn]

How weak or strong it is, is debatable,

spironolactone does not have an antigonadotrophin effect and its a very weak partial agonist of the androgen receptor,
Cypro is also a very weak partial agonist of the androgen receptor But it is an antigonadotrophin,
Bica Is a pure antagonist of the androgen receptor But it has a Gonadotrophin effect

Cypro's good point is its antigonadotrophin effect
Bica's good point is its pure antagonist ability
cypro and bica have pros and cons to each other, however, spironolactone lacks both advantages. in terms of antiandrogenic activity that is

 

[I'mme]

spironolactone does not have an antigonadotrophin effect and its a very weak partial agonist of the androgen receptor,
Cypro is also a very weak partial agonist of the androgen receptor But it is an antigonadotrophin,
Bica Is a pure antagonist of the androgen receptor But it has a Gonadotrophin effect

Cypro's good point is its antigonadotrophin effect
Bica's good point is its pure antagonist ability
cypro and bica have pros and cons to each other, however, spironolactone lacks both advantages. in terms of antiandrogenic activity that is

I wasn't speaking in terms of its ability to turn one into woman, but talking hairloss and providing regrowth, which it has done for almost everyone who has taken it, and which also explains my inclusion of other factors like prolactin, TGF-beta1, inflammation and fibrosis. Since, 1st sentence might sound harsh due to its formation, I would like to state that I have written it in normal sense.

 

[I'mme]

What I'm trying to say is it is a legit and one of the best treatments for cis-males who want to remain male and don't want to resort to estrogen.

A balding person has, in general, high testosterone, LH, DHEA, and prolactin. Whereas, the levels of FSH and SHBG are decreased.

Now spironolactone decreases T, LH, DHEA, and prolactin, as well as suppresses TGF-beta1, inflammation and fibrosis - all these factors have been found to be contributing to Androgenic Alopecia.