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How much Estrogen did you use in your topical?
Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.
- Thread starter bridgeburn
- Start date
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2.5 mg, and I was also on spironolactone at that time.
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Okay so it's like been on hrt basically. No wonder.
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But even if you apply 0.75 mg, it will down-regulate your hpta axis.
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Could someone please explain to me, if the possibility of the partial agonist effects of SAAs like CPA/spironolactone, it is capable of making the things worse? Reading older threads, some members mentioned that is somehow fifty-fifty chance, and I believe it's making sense since Testo/DHT it will still do damage. Although, as long as I have been looking for, the majority gets very good results with CPA/spironolactone without the adverse effects of the partial agonist on the AR. So, how much should someone need to take that under consideration?
**Directly from Wikipedia: Spironolactone, similarly to other steroidal antiandrogens such as cyproterone acetate, is actually not a pure, or silent, antagonist of the AR, but rather is a weak partial agonist with the capacity for both antagonistic and agonistic effects. However, in the presence of sufficiently high levels of potent full agonists like testosterone and DHT (the cases in which spironolactone is usually used even with regards to the "lower" relative levels present in females), spironolactone will behave more similarly to a pure antagonist. Nonetheless, there may still be a potential for spironolactone to produce androgenic effects in the body at sufficiently high dosages and/or in those with very low endogenous androgen concentrations.
Thank you very much in advance.
**Directly from Wikipedia: Spironolactone, similarly to other steroidal antiandrogens such as cyproterone acetate, is actually not a pure, or silent, antagonist of the AR, but rather is a weak partial agonist with the capacity for both antagonistic and agonistic effects. However, in the presence of sufficiently high levels of potent full agonists like testosterone and DHT (the cases in which spironolactone is usually used even with regards to the "lower" relative levels present in females), spironolactone will behave more similarly to a pure antagonist. Nonetheless, there may still be a potential for spironolactone to produce androgenic effects in the body at sufficiently high dosages and/or in those with very low endogenous androgen concentrations.
Thank you very much in advance.
15mg is too much, been there, done that, higher dosages don't really give better results. You are going to be taking it for the rest of your life, be gentle on your heart.
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I don't have much information about spironolactone but if you use cpa 12.5mg/d, due to its potent antigonadotropic effect it will lower your T levels by 70% and its pretty enough to maintain a good hair, by the way, at such low doses, it wont have any antagonist or agonist effects... I have been on cpa 12.5mg/d plus finasteride 2mg/d (1mg day and 1mg night) for 20 days and its working well... And remember that you should periodically check you liver enzymes while you're on cpa
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It means the CPA is suppressing your hpta axis. Fat redistribution will happen for sure.
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@ali.talebi1994 So we can “confirm” that at a dose of 12.5mg that you are taking , we don’t have to worry of CPA acting like a partial agonist ? (actually is the dose that many are taking and see results) That’s what I am thinking as well, maybe higher doses will cause the agonist effect. Thank you very much for your previous response.
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Spirinolactone 200 mg would be a better choice of the drug because you may not want to downregulate your HPTA axis at a young age.
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Thanks
Yes cpa at such low doses wont have any agonist or antagonist activity, as it is written in Wikipedia: "Although CPA is a potent antiandrogen, relatively high doses of CPA are nonetheless required for clinically important AR antagonism."
Even at high doses, chances are that its antagonist activity will be far more than its agonist activity. But its a weak antagonist. But look, cpa shows its antiandrogenic activity mostly by its antigonadotropic effect not by blocking the AR receptors, and since it is a very powerful antigonadotropin, it maximally lowers T levels by 70% at 12.5mg/d
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacology_of_cyproterone_acetate
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I had tried it last year, but i didn't see any result
plus, it dehydrated my body... spironolactone 200 mg has more side effects than cpa 12.5 mg
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Thank you very much! That make the things more clear now. Thanks again.Thanks
Yes cpa at such low doses wont have any agonist or antagonist activity, as it is written in Wikipedia: "Although CPA is a potent antiandrogen, relatively high doses of CPA are nonetheless required for clinically important AR antagonism."
Even at high doses, chances are that its antagonist activity will be far more than its agonist activity. But its a weak antagonist. But look, cpa shows its antiandrogenic activity mostly by its antigonadotropic effect not by blocking the AR receptors, and since it is a very powerful antigonadotropin, it maximally lowers T levels by 70% at 12.5mg/d
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacology_of_cyproterone_acetate
I had tried it last year, but i didn't see any result
Sorry but as long as you watch potassium spironolactone is much safer than cpa.
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Yeah, but 12.5mg/d doesn't expose serious side effects, and its enough for many to have a good hair... Last year when i was on 200 mg/d spironolactone, i was close to ruin my liver, in the blood test that i took i noticed that my liver enzymes were 4x of the normal range
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how do you keep an eye on potassium levels? Without going to doctors every other week. Just watch the foods you consume??
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potassium concentration in saliva was found correlated to potassium levels in blood serum
Use a saliva test kit every 3 months and stay away from potassium rich foods (bananas avocados etc)
Use a saliva test kit every 3 months and stay away from potassium rich foods (bananas avocados etc)
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I've tried them all with some success. Best regrowth was on spironolactone (weak AA but seems to do the job for hair) always keeping CPA at various doses then eventually Bica replacing spironolactone (lost ground because not enough E2) then increased E2 on Bica after lab work and regained ground measuring carefully free E2 T and DHT. At that point I had enough Bica to block T and enough Duta to block DHT. Switched recently to Enzalutamide oral and Darolutamide topical for 6 months as an experiment and using Eplerenone. Keeping CPA low dose till I get lab work soon. RU and Duta topical to cover any DHT left overs. Planning to make my own Duta injections with castor oil.