Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

franzliszt

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We're not women, and the difference is that we have more androgens. That post you linked is quoting a troll, it's completely fabricated.

CB and RU are not "dodgy chinese compounds", they were both created in the US. The fear of using compounds bought from China on this board is unsubstantiated. Most name brand pharmaceuticals sold in the United States are manufactured in China. So let's just get rid of that red herring right now.

Now let's talk upregulation, I don't even need to click the link because what you just said is completely absurd, you can't have infinite upregulation. Upregulation happens through the increased production of receptors or the mutation of receptors which happens in cancer cells. The latter is highly unlikely in the scalp, and the former has a biological limit on the number of receptors that can be created. I do believe you will need to double the dose after 6-12 months in order to block an increased number of receptors, but after that you will be fine
Does prolonged use of estradiol downregulate the androgen receptors or upregulate them? And can a high enough dosage of estradiol overcome the binding affinity of DHT? While on 50mg bica, and 10mg EV every 5 days, my hairloss only stopped after adding finasteride.
 

pegasus2

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Does prolonged use of estradiol downregulate the androgen receptors or upregulate them? And can a high enough dosage of estradiol overcome the binding affinity of DHT? While on 50mg bica, and 10mg EV every 5 days, my hairloss only stopped after adding finasteride.
Estradiol will downregulate AR expression. Not sure why you still needed finasteride, but maybe it was a coincidence. It shouldn't have been necessary on bica and ev.
 

franzliszt

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Estradiol will downregulate AR expression. Not sure why you still needed finasteride, but maybe it was a coincidence. It shouldn't have been necessary on bica and ev.
It's strange I know, that high a dosage of both should be enough. But as soon as the sides from finasteride emerge (depression brain fog etc.), the hair loss stopped and my face became a lot smoother as if the transition moved along.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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It's strange I know, that high a dosage of both should be enough. But as soon as the sides from finasteride emerge (depression brain fog etc.), the hair loss stopped and my face became a lot smoother as if the transition moved along.
What about beard growth? I guess dutasteride has a long half-life but I haven't filled it in a while. I go back and forth between thinking that it is still worthwhile when already hitting female targets but if it has to do with repairing damage maybe that makes sense. But in general, I think that anything that raises estrogen levels and lowers T levels to adult female targets will "work" as a protocol even if some or several of the elements are superfluous. With all the stuff that @bridgeburn was taking, he had to be hitting targets pretty quickly and without missing the entire time interval that he blogged.

Other folks go three months and quit or then change AA's and they probably dip back down out of target zones and maybe that resets the process? All's I knows is that I was stalled until I started taking unlimited amounts of estrogen daily and then things really turned around. All those years I missed targets maximized my breast growth while minimizing my hair growth. That is the irony!

So I am still stuck between two things to figure out. Is it merely the increase in estrogen levels or is it also something fundamentally different that estrogel performs on a topical basis that is a catalyst for hair regrowth because we know estrogel isn't needed or fundamental to hair regrowth; all the ingestion methods work. It might very well be efficiency related in terms of dosage but I think that it is because it is achieving something from being in actual contact with the follicles that either safeguards them or catalyzes them.
 
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franzliszt

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What about beard growth? I guess dutasteride has a long half-life but I haven't filled it in a while. I go back and forth between thinking that it is still worthwhile when already hitting female targets but if it has to do with repairing damage maybe that makes sense. But in general, I think that anything that raises estrogen levels and lowers T levels to adult female targets will "work" as a protocol even if some or several of the elements are superfluous. With all the stuff that @bridgeburn was taking, he had to be hitting targets pretty quickly and without missing the entire time interval that he blogged.

Other folks go three months and quit or then change AA's and they probably dip back down out of target zones and maybe that resets the process? All's I knows is that I was stalled until I started taking unlimited amounts of estrogen daily and then things really turned around. All those years I missed targets maximized my breast growth while minimizing my hair growth. That is the irony!

So I am still stuck between two things to figure out. Is it merely the increase in estrogen levels or is it also something fundamentally different that estrogel performs on a topical basis that is a catalyst for hair regrowth because we know estrogel isn't needed or fundamental to hair regrowth; all the ingestion methods work.
It's ineteresting what you say about lower estradiol levels and breast growth. During my T spike, when I lowered my E2 levels my hair started falling out again, but breast growth defintely increased. As for Bridgeburn, I guess everyone is different. I know for sure that I couldn't tolerate 50mg of cypro everyday.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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It's ineteresting what you say about lower estradiol levels and breast growth. During my T spike, when I lowered my E2 levels my hair started falling out again, but breast growth defintely increased. As for Bridgeburn, I guess everyone is different. I know for sure that I couldn't tolerate 50mg of cypro everyday.
Well, hopefully I am putting my money where my mouth is here and my hair doesn't stall without any AA's. I thought about trying bica but I don't want to ruin the experiment. Oral minoxidil shouldn't change the results but rather speed them up, I think. Usually you would have the age factor, but my experience with estrogen is that all tissue created is essentially brand new tissue meaning I expect better results than a cis-female of my age.

Right now, I am in the transitional stage between male and female hair which gives it an unfortunate "granny-like" aspect in a female context while in a male context, it would be really good hair for someone 56 years old. I should be exiting the mullet stage and in a stage characterized by increasing hair quality and establishment of length due to increased anagen cycles with the establishment of lighter, blonder hairs and everything is on track. Derma-rolling is working like a dream. I spend a lot of time looking at other people's hair when it is imperfect, lol, since this is my obsession but my manageability and sheen and all of the rest that might not come through in a picture is so much nicer. It's thrilling and I know you guys will be too when you get to this point, knock on wood, and Goddess bless. I keep taking pictures and encourage everyone else to do so.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Well, hopefully I am putting my money where my mouth is here and my hair doesn't stall without any AA's. I thought about trying bica but I don't want to ruin the experiment. Oral minoxidil shouldn't change the results but rather speed them up, I think. Usually you would have the age factor, but my experience with estrogen is that all tissue created is essentially brand new tissue meaning I expect better results than a cis-female of my age.

Right now, I am in the transitional stage between male and female hair which gives it an unfortunate "granny-like" aspect in a female context while in a male context, it would be really good hair for someone 56 years old. I should be exiting the mullet stage and in a stage characterized by increasing hair quality and establishment of length due to increased anagen cycles with the establishment of lighter, blonder hairs and everything is on track. Derma-rolling is working like a dream. I spend a lot of time looking at other people's hair when it is imperfect, lol, since this is my obsession but my manageability and sheen and all of the rest that might not come through in a picture is so much nicer. It's thrilling and I know you guys will be too when you get to this point, knock on wood, and Goddess bless. I keep taking pictures and encourage everyone else to do so.
Also, if there is any method that might increase breast growth but probably only temporarily, it is estrogen deprivation or possibly topical application which I think worked for me but there's no way to know. It too might be temporary as is progesterone. Thank Goddess, I am not obsessed with both hair and breasts.

As I am wont to say, I am only in this for the hair! It makes my mother feel better when I say that.
 

DogoDiLaurentiis

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I read till it says Topical spironolactone then stopped.

Then you missed the part where I concluded by my own experience that it did not work, but the thing is, that's not something I could even remotely convince another doctor to use for such an issue.

I'm actually pretty sure I can convince my dr to explore usage of topical estrogen.


The OP seemed to do well enough on 0.75 mgs, I'm considering starting lower if I can even though when I see myself in pictures from the past, that it appears that I had very little problem with estrogen levels high enough to impede prolific beard growth, I don't want to overload my body.

I would like some beneficial systemic effects, but nothing excessive.
 
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franzliszt

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It is still possible. Check this subreddit:


It is still possible. Check this subreddit:

I think if daro or enza ever become financially viable, they will be our saviour from AR upregulation and adrenal T. I think someone on this forum mentioned excessive sugar consumption and it's effect on the AR. I don't know exactly what the mechanism was, do you know anything on this subject?
 

Gergely

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IMG_20200924.png

maybe worse maybe better? hard to tell
 
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Gergely

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Is that you? You are so young. You can't tell your age much in the third pic. If you are asking, I don't like how that patch of baldness is sort of moving towards the center because your best hope was to keep the balding areas to the temples.

Have you considered quadrupling your estrofem dosage?
IMG_20201106_200126.jpg
IMG_20201106_200023.jpg

I'm on 4mg currently and that's the best i can do. Sometimes it doesn't look that bad idk why
 

DogoDiLaurentiis

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I'm on 4mg currently and that's the best i can do. Sometimes it doesn't look that bad idk why

Your inconsistent hair development at the hair line does not seem androgenic in nature to me, that seems like something else.

Perhaps some kind of inflammation or alopecia areata, because honestly the rest of your hair density really does seem good, I'm not sure if estrogen is what is precisely called for here.

What is your vitamin D status? I recommend you get that checked, because I have been on liposomal vitamin D which is supposedly better for absorption and it just... wasn't taking if you know what I mean. My vitamin D levels were total garbage and my hair was suffering badly because of it and I did have and do contend with hairline abnormalities.

Low vitamin D can cause that kind of patchy hair weirdness but so can other things, I would definitely say that you're not out of luck, to the contrary, I think you've barely scratched the surface as to what exactly your unique circumstance is.

Don't give up and don't be discouraged.

Figured I'd come post an update since it's been quite a while. Managed to largely reverse over 10 years of temple loss on hrt. And that's umm, all that changed...

That's really good, but even then it seems like your hairline wasn't that bad and the density of your follicles seems good too in the before pic.

That being said you definitely transformed, I hope you're pleased with the result.
 

keepcoolmybabies

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That's really good, but even then it seems like your hairline wasn't that bad and the density of your follicles seems good too in the before pic.

That being said you definitely transformed, I hope you're pleased with the result.
Yes thanks. I had long wanted to transition anyway prior to realizing hrt could be beneficial to hair loss, so 2 birds with one stone kinda worked for the best in my case.
 

Gergely

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Figured I'd come post an update since it's been quite a while. Managed to largely reverse over 10 years of temple loss on hrt. And that's umm, all that changed...
That hairline is actually amazing, i never had that even when i was 10
Your inconsistent hair development at the hair line does not seem androgenic in nature to me, that seems like something else.

Perhaps some kind of inflammation or alopecia areata, because honestly the rest of your hair density really does seem good, I'm not sure if estrogen is what is precisely called for here.

What is your vitamin D status? I recommend you get that checked, because I have been on liposomal vitamin D which is supposedly better for absorption and it just... wasn't taking if you know what I mean. My vitamin D levels were total garbage and my hair was suffering badly because of it and I did have and do contend with hairline abnormalities.

Low vitamin D can cause that kind of patchy hair weirdness but so can other things, I would definitely say that you're not out of luck, to the contrary, I think you've barely scratched the surface as to what exactly your unique circumstance is.

Don't give up and don't be discouraged.
I do take vitamin D 200 µg a day. I did have some dandruff issues in the past in that area, but not currently.
I take all kinds of vitamin supplements.
 
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