Only nizoral and nano shampoo? should I use finasteride or curcumin or something? I have a prescription for finasteride but im scared to take it only due to very slow hairloss and very little genetic history. I just dont know what alternative there even is to finasteride go bald i guess? I was thinking of more herbal stuff but I dont think it does enough.
Has Anyone Questioned Androgenetic Factors
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michael barry
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abcdefg,
If youre not afraid of finas, take it. Use the nizoral about three days a week.
The nano is for convienince's sake. It will get you some regrowth, and its just a shampoo, not a topical. There are spin traps in the NANO that are designed to keep negative inflammatory cytokines from forming in the scalp. But if you want to double dose it, take green tea (gets tgf beta and tnf alpha), grape seed extract, and eat foods that have some silica.......
If youre not afraid of finas, take it. Use the nizoral about three days a week.
The nano is for convienince's sake. It will get you some regrowth, and its just a shampoo, not a topical. There are spin traps in the NANO that are designed to keep negative inflammatory cytokines from forming in the scalp. But if you want to double dose it, take green tea (gets tgf beta and tnf alpha), grape seed extract, and eat foods that have some silica.......
DammitLetMeIn
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wookster said:
The most important part of an article to Docj077 is the unimportant bit where the name of the researcher is wrong or statistics aren't taken over 100,000,000, or the experiment is carried out on a rat instead of an ape or just plain ole' 'he doesn't like the experiment'.
bobmer
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1st guy: Hey there's smoke coming out of the tail pipe! (balding)
2nd guy: I know what that is. It's burning oil (androgens) leaking into the combustion chamber (follicles).
1st guy: can you fix it?
2nd guy: yeah, we'll take out the oil (castration) and the smoke will stop!
3rd guy: Are you NUTS!@# You'll riun the engine. Get down to the problem of leaking and put something in to thicken the oil so it doesn't leak!
That is the kind of approach one can expect from pharmaceuticals in treating degenerative or progressive disorders.
4th guy: tell the driver not to over-rev the engine (over-work) and shift to the proper gear (countermeasures); check that there's always water in the radiator (dehydration), check the oil level, grease,(right diet) tire pressures (blood pressure) and so forth and so on..
2nd guy; aw man, that's too complicated. Is there someone who can fix it quickly and everything will be ok??
5th guy: Yeah. I have one. It's a special oil, it comes from the Antarctic. Just put it the engine and forget about everything.
Pattern hair loss is a progressive disorder. There is no doubt that genes have an indirect influence hair loss but it is doubtful that genes have any direct influence. Genetic defects are like black and white - it's either you have it or you don't.
Industrial development, the product of the human male species' ‘ingenuity’ , undermines traditional family norms because the system and its laws do not provide enough protection to families as basic units of society but rather the system ‘encourages’ individuals to contribute to ‘society’ as working class citizens without much regard for their need to attend to the needs of their immediate family – a system that promises to provide security and a better life but allows exploitation by commercial and industrial enterprises. It created environments that undermined traditional family norms which is the reason why populations of industrialized countries are dropping; their population growing older and depend on foreign nurses to provide health care; the reason men and women today have similar jobs and roles in society.
Within the man-made environment or arena, various diseases manifested; their causes ‘unknown and unexplained’ and are taking their toll on the forbearing. The diseases are chronic, degenerative and progressive, over the past few decades, along with the acceleration of commerce and industry, have been increasing to epidemic proportions – its tentacles impacting even remote rural areas.
The author of my book knows exactly how to stop hair loss but, you know, there's no money in selling books on preventive medicine. Every patient wants the easy way to treat disorders. Sad to say there aren't enough options on progressive disorders. Unlike in microbial diseae, the silver-bullet mentality won't do you any good on these diseases.
http://unraveled.bravehost.com/
2nd guy: I know what that is. It's burning oil (androgens) leaking into the combustion chamber (follicles).
1st guy: can you fix it?
2nd guy: yeah, we'll take out the oil (castration) and the smoke will stop!
3rd guy: Are you NUTS!@# You'll riun the engine. Get down to the problem of leaking and put something in to thicken the oil so it doesn't leak!
That is the kind of approach one can expect from pharmaceuticals in treating degenerative or progressive disorders.
4th guy: tell the driver not to over-rev the engine (over-work) and shift to the proper gear (countermeasures); check that there's always water in the radiator (dehydration), check the oil level, grease,(right diet) tire pressures (blood pressure) and so forth and so on..
2nd guy; aw man, that's too complicated. Is there someone who can fix it quickly and everything will be ok??
5th guy: Yeah. I have one. It's a special oil, it comes from the Antarctic. Just put it the engine and forget about everything.
Pattern hair loss is a progressive disorder. There is no doubt that genes have an indirect influence hair loss but it is doubtful that genes have any direct influence. Genetic defects are like black and white - it's either you have it or you don't.
Industrial development, the product of the human male species' ‘ingenuity’ , undermines traditional family norms because the system and its laws do not provide enough protection to families as basic units of society but rather the system ‘encourages’ individuals to contribute to ‘society’ as working class citizens without much regard for their need to attend to the needs of their immediate family – a system that promises to provide security and a better life but allows exploitation by commercial and industrial enterprises. It created environments that undermined traditional family norms which is the reason why populations of industrialized countries are dropping; their population growing older and depend on foreign nurses to provide health care; the reason men and women today have similar jobs and roles in society.
Within the man-made environment or arena, various diseases manifested; their causes ‘unknown and unexplained’ and are taking their toll on the forbearing. The diseases are chronic, degenerative and progressive, over the past few decades, along with the acceleration of commerce and industry, have been increasing to epidemic proportions – its tentacles impacting even remote rural areas.
The author of my book knows exactly how to stop hair loss but, you know, there's no money in selling books on preventive medicine. Every patient wants the easy way to treat disorders. Sad to say there aren't enough options on progressive disorders. Unlike in microbial diseae, the silver-bullet mentality won't do you any good on these diseases.
http://unraveled.bravehost.com/
bobmer
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If Hormones are primary influencing mediators that make up the physiological differences between men and women, why do female and male attributes appear in female and male bearing sperms without the hormones?
Since prehistoric times up until the last few centuries or decades, the primal role of men and women in communities were gender specific and wide apart but very highly complementary.
Some things are just not right where men and women now take similar roles in society - a great leap away from their primal roles. The consequences of these changes are tantamount to profound changes in their adopted environment or predestined roles in society.
Since prehistoric times up until the last few centuries or decades, the primal role of men and women in communities were gender specific and wide apart but very highly complementary.
Some things are just not right where men and women now take similar roles in society - a great leap away from their primal roles. The consequences of these changes are tantamount to profound changes in their adopted environment or predestined roles in society.
bobmer said:
Nice sociological analysis, but male pattern baldness predates industrialisation by several thousand years.
If male pattern baldness was a disadvantageous trait, a genetic 'defect' as you put it, I guess it would have been selected against and eliminated from the population. The fact that we still have many men who begin to bald as early as their teens suggests that baldness is nota reproductive disadvantage.
None of our present treatments are ideal, but at least finasteride and minoxidil have been proven in robust clinical trials.
bobmer
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Pondle said:
Thank you
Its not my study. Its the book I read.Robust in clinical trials. We should hear what dematologists have to say about those. Pharmaceuticals are known to bloat their claims. If you wanna know why I know ask me but I don't want to mess up this forum with NON-related topics.
I never agreed it is a genetic defect in the first place because MBP is a progressive disorder. Genetic defects are like switches, you have it or you don't. Just like during puberty when we all begin to grow hair in the pubic area. That was a switch. IF mbp was caused by a gene or switch, we'll be a Hamilton level 7 in a matter of weeks. Unlike MBP, puberty does not associate with diseases except hard-ons :hairy:
We can all say goodbye to geneticists with regards to MBP because since the effect of genes on hair loss is indirect, it means that there is a pathway that can be addressed.
It is logical to think that MBP predates recorded history because the causes of MBP are multi-factorial. Why do we know it's multi? Because it associates with several diseases. That makes it a symptom.
If it's a symptom, then anything adverse that gets into the pathway can cause hair loss. We know its rising in industrializing countries just like diabetes, obesity, heart diseases.
Yes, I agree that at least there are 'working' treatments. The only problem is the hype is killing other NON-pharmacological methods.
Yes, if its a disadvantagous defect it will have eliminated us in the natural selection process but the thing is its not even fatal so elimination will not occur. And a woman won't deny having sex with susceptible men because they still had hair during mating season
BUT here is the real story. Caucasian are more prone to hair loss. If you are right in the elimination process, then you zeroed in on the fact that the population of Caucasians or Whites is decreasing.
But then again, guys, say goodbye to traditional beliefs in genetics. The Human Genome project has concluded. 25,000 genes of humans cannot account for the complexities of humans. It might not even be enough for a microscopic ringworm. Contraception alone would need 1 miillion genes. Guys, you can drop predisposition its too strong a word and associates with geneticists. Start using susceptibility because it means that we have weaknesses.
bobmer said:
Simply more androgen receptors? More 5AR?
Maybe, I honestly don't know enough about this. But correlation doesn't mean causation.
Is there reliable data on this? A lot of older anthropometric studies were complete crap.
And a woman won't deny having sex with susceptible men because they still had hair during mating season
But some men go bald straight after puberty, and that trait is still around. And baldness may signal positive features, such as maturity which correlates with status, reduced aggression etc.
mumuka
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Bobmer, industrialization? Why? Oh why??????????
Look ,my great grand father lived in a small village in an eastern european country ,160 kilometers from any city ..... So my great grandpa with all his family were farmers ,they had a lot of land to work,they worked the land with horses and their own hands.... drank water from wells(every house had his own well)....no cars ....obviously no tv's or computers around.....not even freaking power lines (grandma told me the that lamps ruled at that time) .... they ate everything what they grew veggies ,animals etc ....no pesticides used no chemicals no genetically enginereed food....
How exactly went great grandpa norwood 7 in his 40`s? His brothers were bald too ... Some started to bald sooner some later though...
Anyways my great grandpa norwood 7 head and industrialization are 2 very different things. Peace.
Look ,my great grand father lived in a small village in an eastern european country ,160 kilometers from any city ..... So my great grandpa with all his family were farmers ,they had a lot of land to work,they worked the land with horses and their own hands.... drank water from wells(every house had his own well)....no cars ....obviously no tv's or computers around.....not even freaking power lines (grandma told me the that lamps ruled at that time) .... they ate everything what they grew veggies ,animals etc ....no pesticides used no chemicals no genetically enginereed food....
How exactly went great grandpa norwood 7 in his 40`s? His brothers were bald too ... Some started to bald sooner some later though...
Anyways my great grandpa norwood 7 head and industrialization are 2 very different things. Peace.
bobmer
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mumuka said:
I never said industrialization is the cause. Something in industrialization contributed to increase in hair loss cases in NON-Caucatian cultures.I did not say that genes had nothing to do with hair loss. I said the effect of genes of hair loss is indirect
Frankly, i'm also not good at these. Just trying to contribute what I've read.
Mumuka, go here:
http://www.gourmetstylewellness.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?t=34534
Yes pondle, correlation does not mean causation. There are only means of getting into the root of the problem. They are like hints or clues.
No, not say more to androgens. Say more to other possible causes other than genes and androgens.
bobmer said:
I'd like to see data on that bobmer. I've seen the Japanese example mentioned on Wikipedia, but the author didn't cite a source. Unless we have reliable anthropometrics that are comparable over time, I suspect it may be a myth.
bobmer
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Pondle said:bobmer said:
I'd like to see data on that bobmer. I've seen the Japanese example mentioned on Wikipedia, but the author didn't cite a source. Unless we have reliable anthropometrics that are comparable over time, I suspect it may be a myth.
Industrialization in my country began after world war II. Do you at least agree that many diseases are rising into epidemic proportions in industrialized countries?
bobmer said:Pondle said:bobmer said:
I'd like to see data on that bobmer. I've seen the Japanese example mentioned on Wikipedia, but the author didn't cite a source. Unless we have reliable anthropometrics that are comparable over time, I suspect it may be a myth.
Industrialization in my country began after world war II. Do you at least agree that many diseases are rising into epidemic proportions in industrialized countries?
Bobmer, health is generally getting a lot better in the developed world People are living longer, infant mortality is now extremely low. There are shifts in disease patterns, but a lot of that is due to an ageing population and/or an over-indulgent diet.
Cancer is increasing - partly due to population ageing - but we can expect many forms to become chronic, non-fatal conditions over the next few decades.
Even coronary heart disease (in under 65s) is going down in the UK, partly because of the shift to white meat consumption, apparently.
The health economists that work for my employer suggest that we are shifting from communicable and acute to chronic diseases, and from physical to mental conditions.
bobmer
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Yes life expentancy increased in the past decades. But increase in life expentancy does not translate to good quality of life. The population of industrialized countries is either falling or beginning to fall. They are increasingly becoming dependent on foreign nurses for health care and on immigrants to maintain their population. Can I say that about 40% of their population are on some kind of medication? A sure success for drug companies.
I cannot argue as much as some can because I'm reading a single piece of book.
I cannot argue as much as some can because I'm reading a single piece of book.
docj077
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bobmer said:Pondle said:bobmer said:
I'd like to see data on that bobmer. I've seen the Japanese example mentioned on Wikipedia, but the author didn't cite a source. Unless we have reliable anthropometrics that are comparable over time, I suspect it may be a myth.
Industrialization in my country began after world war II. Do you at least agree that many diseases are rising into epidemic proportions in industrialized countries?
No, diseases are not rising to epidemic proportions at all. Diseases are simply identified more often due to modern medicines ability to analyze a disease process so thoroughly that even the very genetic abnormalities can be found and treated. Diseases are reported more often, which means that disease rates appear higher, but in reality they are actually falling for numerous diseases.
bobmer
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I see. I think there may be differences in the timeline because the author talks of thousands of years in since the agricultural era.
In Russia, the life expectancy actually fell after the Soviet Union collapse. This is the time that commercial and industrial activities went into high gear.
In Russia, the life expectancy actually fell after the Soviet Union collapse. This is the time that commercial and industrial activities went into high gear.