Mbehr22's Story - (** New UPDATE - 1/28/07 - 5.5 Months **)

[mbehr22]

Heres my background...

pics with updates posted at bottom of this post ...

Im 29, so Im not sure if thats 'early' to lose your hair, but a few months back I went to my girlfriend's stylist to get my hair cut .... thats where it started.

During the cut she told me "I wouldnt take it any shorter in the back since you are getting so thin back there" ... it caught me off guard, but it wasnt that big of a shock, since I have a DOUBLE CROWN in the back ...

I have had a double crown/double swirl back there for as long as i can remember. even in grade school (7th is as early as i can remember) during golf team matches, I would frequently get sunburn on my crown/scalp/area where my hair parted funny in the back ... it was not big deal.

So... after my haircut I mention the stylist's remark to my girlfriend (of 5 months), who then tells me that I do, indeed, have a little "spot" back there .... thats when I freak out. I had no idea that there was a "spot" to be seen, other than my cowlick/swirl that I have always had ...

Another thing that made the thought of losing my hair that much more of a blindside is the fact that there is very little male pattern baldness in my fam .... Dad is a little thin up front, but hes in his late 50s. Dads, dad = full head of hair. Moms dad = full head of hair. Dads, dads, dad (my Greatgranddad passed away my Sr year of HS) and even he had hair in his 90s ... My moms brother is almost 60 and is thinning. Other than that, all of my other aunts, uncles, great uncles, etc ... no balding. we have a very big fam, so the vast minority fall in the "thinning" category.

So now that Im aware of "it" I need yall's help.

I immediately made an appt with my GP, who referred me to a Dermatologist, who was very nice, but seemed to push the Propecia regiment - his stance seemed to be that 1mg Propecia/day was the only way to go. He even said that Rogaine was too much of a hassle - applying it 2x day wasnt practical in his point of view ...

So now what do I do?

Im shedding like crazy -especially from the back. I dont have a real shedding baseline since Im just becoming aware of this problem, however it seems that the shedding is A LOT ... my pillow is COVERED with hair every moring.

Running my hands through my hair usually yields a lot of very fine, shorter hairs (i dont know if that means they are immature hairs or'young' hairs that are falling out)

I have always had very fine, "baby" hair (as mom would say) .... but the hairs im losing are very thin.

Also, my scalp, at the crown, hurts - it aches. I cant figure out if thats in my mind, or if there is actual pain there ... all i know is that i feel a general "aching" of the scalp on the crown.... whatever that means.

NOTE: my GP tested my thyroid upon my initial consult, just to rule out any poss thyroid disorders. He told me my blood tests were "clean" - no thyroid disorder that he could tell

The shower drain will have a ton of hair in it one day ... the next, nothing.

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Heres what I want to know :

What do I do?

Is finasteride enough?

What does "dutasteride" do that "finasteride" doesnt? (should i switch?)

Is 1mg/day enough? (I am almost done with month 1 of my Propecia Rx ...)

Why does it take 6+months of propecia to show results?

Could sunburn to my crown/scalp as a kid cause a loss of hair now?

How does my genetic/fam history come into play?

If I dont have dandruff (never have), why is Nizoral an option?

Should I try the Retin-A + Rogain combo?

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All help is greatly appreciated.

Please reply in full terms if you can... I havent deciphered all of the shorthand/abbreviations yet.. LOL

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just getting started

1.5 month update

These are all photos of my current status ... as stated above, I have been on finasteride for not even a month @ 1mg per day

All help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance




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New update:

This past Nov - Pics @ 2.5 months on Propecia

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UPDATE

its been 5 months and 2 weeks on 1mg of propecia/day

i use nizoral about 2-3 times/week

im really leaning towards adding rogaine... im thinking about hitting the top - everywhere from crown to temples to hairline - with 5% minoxidil 2xday and see how that works

my concern initially was the massive shed i had during weeks 2-4. bad initial shed. covered my pillows. now im debating if the temples/hairline is receding. i freaked last week b/c i thought the hairline was in reverse, but now im debating if i am actually regaining some real estate up front. maybe the forward growth is making my hairline look 'jagged' and so uneven.


now... these pics are going to look funny since they are wet. the originals are dry. i will post dry pics in a few minutes.

WET...

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DRY...

heres my dry pics at 5 months...

this probably gives a better comparison to the originals since the originals were taken when my hair was dry also ...

i think the crown may look a little improved.

my biggest concern is my front hairline right now

any feedback appreciated

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wow .. maybe its working...

larger:

THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mbehr22]

Note : pics have been moved to above post

 

[s.a.f]

I think that finesteride is your best bet and should serve you well. At least you dont have much of a problem compared to most guys on here. That hair at 29 is not early loss, I was like that at aged 19or20. I would'nt go overboard and get on all the topicals if I were you, just stick with finasteride.

 

[mbehr22]

why do you say?

im not disagreeing, just wanted to explore that opinion more ...

my philosophy, right or wrong, is to hit it with all that is available now ... thinking that those topicals, as well as finasteride or dutasteride - either way - would yield the best results since im hitting the problem from the inside and out ...

Thanks for the feedback, BTW ....


Oh - one more ? - whats the primary diff b/w finasteride and dutasteride .... why is one more favored over the other?

thanks!

 

[KR78]

I think it is better to start with finasteride (dutasteride is stronger compared to finasteride , but you might do very well on finasteride itself since you cought the hairloss problem eairly , more over finasteride is out in market for very long time so people know abt the long term effects of finasteride)

If I were u I wouldn't start with minoxidil cause minoxidil is long term commitment and once u start minoxidil u have to use it as long as u want to keep hair grow by it, once u stop minoxidil u will loose the hair grown by minoxidil.


P.S. and ask ur gf to stop pulling ur hair like that !

 

[mbehr22]

^^^
ha! yeah - she pulled that little middle piece out of the way to show the overall loss. and that pic shows the "double crown" i was referring to earlier, so it has looked like i have had a very small bald spot/cowlick in the middle back area of my head since i was a kid

i am curious as to whether or not the sunburns i received on the golf course could dmage my hair/scalp in that area to the extent to cause some shedding/loss of coverage?

 

[michael barry]

Finas (in the form of proscar cut into fourths or fifths for cheaper price).

Nizoral shampoo about three days a week



That would be a good anti-androgenic start to cutting DHT transcription.

Might add a growth stimulant if you want faster results If you do minoxidil...................have to stay on it, but its cheap and it works. Other growth stimulants would be copper peptides (folligen, tricomin, prox-n), proanthocyanidin oligomers (apple poly). One shampoo, NANO could be used a couple of days a week and be a pretty good growth stimulant for a small area of loss like that also.


Revivogen would also probably see that thinning area fill in given about a years time.


Youve got good hair, except for that one little spot. Funny.........Ive got deeply receessed temples (I hate it too), but am pretty thick back there where your thinning. I think your hair genetics look very strong though. Just usage of finasteride and nizoral about three days a week (dont use nizoral every day...............its literally bad for your hair if you do) should see that bald spot fill in over a years time. If you'd like to "kick start" regrowth (most guys do), you might also add the NANO a couple of days a week or buy a couple of months supply of prox-n and just apply it to the thinning area (it would last you much more than a couple of months this way as your front looks very good).


dietarily.......................foods with a high glycemic index (starchy foods) get the adrenal glands to make a little extra testosterone. Any thing that contributes to insulin resistance might accelerate baldness. Soya foods help reduce levels of DHT in the blood, so if you like any of that..................it can help your hair. If you like to munch on seeds and nuts..............pumpkin seeds have a good amount of beta sitosterol and zinc and would probably help your hair over time. A guy posting under the name docj077 (a med student) is trying a regimine that attempts to counteract what happens after male hormone is uptaken at receptor sites in the follicle without cutting DHT (which is interesting and Im hoping he has great success). His regimine is he his taking curcumin extract in the morn and afternoon to cut TGF-beta one, Green tea extract once in the morn and once at night TNF-alpha downregulation), and 333% Daily Recommeded allowance of vitamin E in the form of tocopherol (PKC downregulation).

Those three supplements interest me in this way. Look at some of docj077's post (he's very smart).


I feel certain that "the big three" would work for you though. I realize however, that minoxidil is a pain in the *** (topicals are). If you have side effects with finasteride, revivogen is a pretty decent alternative in my opinion (probably not quite as good as finasteride, and it smells a bit, has to be left on three hours...............but it works in hamster flank organs).


I think if you can just do finasteride, nizoral 3X a week, and perhaps NANO shampoo 2 or three times a week (NANO is unfortunatel pricey)................you'd also fill in that thin spot and probably never worry about hair again given your good genetics. Keep the dietary stuff in mind though man. The Japanese did not bald nearly as much until after WW2 and they have good hair genes. We (or many of us) think that our high glycemic-insulin-resistance-building diets of the west (high sugar, lots of starchy, french fries, processed foods, high fructose corn syrup, etc.) get the adrenals to pump out a bit more testosterone and also lower globulin levels. Globulin is the "sex-binding hormone" as it carries around testosterone in your body in a "bound" form, thus making it unavailable to be converted to DHT. Our diets probably lower it in the West and thus our hair is getting more T and DHT androgenic stimulation (remember, in experiments, just upping Testosterone a good deal will also lead to miniaturization of hair, but DHT has a bigger affinity for an androgen receptor by a factor of 3 or 4). A little internal green tea extract can help up globulin if you dont get sides from it..........................might kinda make you have bit of diarreha until you get used to it.


Those are some "hair healthy things" you can read up on. You can look up the member list here at hairloss talk and check on Bryan's post (Bryan Shelton) and Docj077's posts and learn a great deal. Collegechemistrystudent is a guy who knows alot------------------my god though he's using so much stuff. You should be alright though. In about a year, if you do those two shampoo's and finasteride, you probably wont have a thin spot back there and given your genes be fine for many many years. Hope this helps, good luck

 

[mbehr22]

wow - thanks for all the info.

How do i use the Nano and Nizoral? Do i shampoo just the area in the back with it? do i shampoo all over?

What kind of $ are we talking with each?

Thanks again!

 

[kalbo]

Another reason why u may want to hold of on the topicals is because the finasteride alone could regrow some hair on your crown. So a good idea would be to start with just the finasteride and after a year, if things don't improve or get progressively worse, then it would be a good time to use the topicals.

Your hair isn't that bad so I don't think it's imperative that u start using topicals. If you don't really need to add something like minoxidil to your regime, then don't do it... Trust me, dealing with minoxidil is a b!tch...

 

[mbehr22]

Another reason why u may want to hold of on the topicals is because the finasteride alone could regrow some hair on your crown. So a good idea would be to start with just the finasteride and after a year, if things don't improve or get progressively worse, then it would be a good time to use the topicals.

Your hair isn't that bad so I don't think it's imperative that u start using topicals. If you don't really need to add something like minoxidil to your regime, then don't do it... Trust me, dealing with minoxidil is a b!tch...

Thanks, Kalbo

Would you consider nizoral and Nado (their name escapes me - the shampooos) topicals?

Do you think I should go ahead and give those two a try?

If so, how often would I use them and where? (all over/just on the crown/etc)

Thanks!

 

[Guest]

shampoos aren't topicals. i assume you shampoo your hair every day anyway, so just sub those in. a good regrow shampoo is Nano, as i think i already said hehe. =) you wash the shampoo out but you don't wash minoxidil out until it's dried.

i'd use nizoral and nano if i were you. you lather them up, making sure to cover your balding areas first and then extend outward and cover your whole hair area. but make sure the balding areas covered. the water will rinse the shampoo down over the rest of the hair anyway.

nano you leave in for 2-3 minutes before rinsing, and nizoral you leave in 5 minutes before rinsing, for optimal results. i myself use nano 5 days a week and nizoral 2 days a week, which i feel is a good strategy. i would also follow each shampoo up with a conditioner as i do. it doesn't have to be an expensive one. Dove makes good conditioners for 3 or 4 bucks.

 

[LookingGood!]

Shampoos only help with aesthetics or cosmetic appearance but do not affect growth. They cannot penetrate the dermal layer of the follicle. The only products that can are minoxidil.

I would recommend contacting Dr Richard Lee http://www.minoxidil.com

He doesnt believe in retin A and minoxidil combos anymore and thinks 5% minoxidil is effective. I am currently trying the Xandrox 5% which is minoxidil 5% + alzeic acid and Xandrox 15 at night. I will reassess in 5-6 months and possibly add topical spironolactone cream with it.

Right now try Finasteride (propecia)
Nizoral 2 x week
minoxidil 5% or the 5% foam

The big three for at least 1 YR then reasses.

Hope that helps.

Be careful with some of these veteran posters, veteran meaning the amount of posts. They are not doctors or hair specialists and to call them that is a bit of a stretch. They are only sharing info from public sites and their personal experiences.

 

[Guest]

Shampoos only help with aesthetics or cosmetic appearance but do not affect growth. They cannot penetrate the dermal layer of the follicle. The only products that can are minoxidil.

I would recommend contacting Dr Richard Lee http://www.minoxidil.com

He doesnt believe in retin A and minoxidil combos anymore and thinks 5% minoxidil is effective. I am currently trying the Xandrox 5% which is minoxidil 5% + alzeic acid and Xandrox 15 at night. I will reassess in 5-6 months and possibly add topical spironolactone cream with it.

Right now try Finasteride (propecia)
Nizoral 2 x week
minoxidil 5% or the 5% foam

The big three for at least 1 YR then reasses.

Hope that helps.

Be careful with some of these veteran posters, veteran meaning the amount of posts. They are not doctors or hair specialists and to call them that is a bit of a stretch. They are only sharing info from public sites and their personal experiences.

More likely they should be careful of you. Saying that shampoos cannot affect growth is a ridiculous statement. Saying that the only product that can affect growth is minoxidil is beyond ridiculous and venturing into the stupid category.

Where's your proof that azelaic acid is useful at inhibiting dht? If it isn't, then Xandrox might very well be a huge waste of money.

 

[mbehr22]

why the conflicting info?? ^^^

 

[Guest]

why the conflicting info?? ^^^

my info is backed up by many people on here.

lookinggood's info is backed up by.... well i don't know what is his is backed up by, but I don't know why he's telling you to contact Dr Lee. All Dr Lee will do is try to sell you his products, which are good but may not be what you need.

 

[LookingGood!]

why the conflicting info?? ^^^

my info is backed up by many people on here.

lookinggood's info is backed up by.... well i don't know what is his is backed up by, but I don't know why he's telling you to contact Dr Lee. All Dr Lee will do is try to sell you his products, which are good but may not be what you need.

LOL THAT IS LAUGHABLE! MY INFO IS BACKED UP BY PEOPLE ON HERE! LISTEN TO YOURSELF. ALZELIC ACID HAS BEEN PROVEN TO NEUTRALIZE DHT IN THE SKIN. IT DOESNT WORK FOR EVERYBODY JUST LIKE ALL OTHERS SUCH AS PROPECIA, BUT IT IS WHAT I AM TRYING NOW B/C I MAY HAVE ACCOMMODATED TO THE minoxidil/RETIN A COMBO THAT I HAVE BEEN USING FOR 14 YRS ON/OFF. DRLEE AT LEAST HAS BEEN STUDYING THESE FORMULAS FOR 21 YRS AND HAS RESEARCH TO BACK IT UP. HE NEVER TRIED TO SELL ANYTHING TO ME JUST MADE RECS THAT I MAY OR MAY NOT CHOOSE TO USE. YOUR STATEMENT ON THAT IS CONVENIENT AND GRATUITIOUS AT BEST.
I WAS LOOKING OUT FOR THIS GUY B/C ALL NEWBIES SHOULD START A REGIMEN OF THE BIG 3 FIRST.
ASK ANY hair transplant MD AND THEY WILL TELL YOU THAT SHAMPOOS DO LITTLE BUT AFFECT THE SHAFT BY EXPANDING IT TEMPORARILY. EXAMPLES; LOREAL V FOR MEN, PANTENE, TRICOMIN REVITALIZING SHAMPOO. THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN PROVEN IN TRIALS TO AFFECT GROWTH. WHAT YOU SEE AFTER YOU USE NANO IS TEMPORARY BUT IF YOU LIKE IT KEEP USING IT. I LIKE TRICOMIN SHAMPOO SO I KEEP USING IT B/C IT MAKES MY HAIR MORE MANAGEABLE
JAY: CONTACT DR BRIDGES AT http://WWW.HAIRCYCLE.COM. HE MAY HELP YOU.
MOREOVER, A NEWBIE COULD GET INFLUENCED BY A PERSON LIKE CCS WHO HAS NO CREDIBILITY BUT ANECDOTAL INFO BASED ON HIS PERSONAL TRIALS AND ERRORS..MORE THE LATTER.

WHAT EVIDENCE DOES DR PROCTOR HAVE? HE CANT EVEN TELL YOU IF THE MIXTURE OF spironolactone/RETIN A AND minoxidil WORK TOGETHER SYNERGISTICALLY. ALL ANECDOTAL AND EXPENSIVE AT BEST.
WHY DO U TAKE THIS AS A PERSONAL ATTACK? ARE YOU A SCHILL FOR DR PROCTOR? JUST ASKING.

 

[Guest]

no i'm not a shill for proctor.

please don't type in all caps. it is soooo annoying and stupid.

i recommend most people start out with propecia and nizoral and add minoxidil if they feel it's necessary. if you read my posts you'd see that.

azelaic acid has not been proven to inhibit dht in the hair follicle.

nano is different from those thickening shampoos. nano can offer some people a real hair growth benefit similar to minoxidil and not just a cosmetic thickening.

 

[LookingGood!]

no i'm not a shill for proctor.

please don't type in all caps. it is soooo annoying and stupid.

i recommend most people start out with propecia and nizoral and add minoxidil if they feel it's necessary. if you read my posts you'd see that.

azelaic acid has not been proven to inhibit dht in the hair follicle.

nano is different from those thickening shampoos. nano can offer some people a real hair growth benefit similar to minoxidil and not just a cosmetic thickening.

Jay I read your posts. I never had a problem with you. As for nano, I need to see data with appreciable results. Like I said in my posts, if you like it and it helps keep using it. I like Tricomin and although its abeit expensive also and phase three trials were halted it makes my hair managaeble and easy to style, thus more good hair days. :lol: The theory that it creates a more feasible environment ( destroys fungis, reduces scalp irritation/inflammation is up for debate but I like it just like you favor nano. Do they increase hair count? No There is no data. Can you supply me with hair count data? If you do have growth it may be from the propecia and minoxidil not necessaryily from the nano.
Azelaic acid has been proven in trials to be an effectrive inhibitor of DHT synthesis in the scalp, if so with 5% minoxidil there SHOULD be promotion of hair growth as well as prevention of atrophy of the hair follicles. (miniaturization) It may not work for everyone but at this point I will try it for 6 months. I will let you know how it turns out.

BTW: where is the proof that shampoos like nano work? Is it b/c you friends on here said so? What makes them experts? The amount of posts? I looked at Bryans pix and I must say I dont know why they are even posted. He is passionate about hair loss and I respect that but he is not a specialist (unless he is not disclosing it) with scientific research behind his claims. He like many on here cut and paste alot of research but who is to say most of it is good research? Where is the governing body overseeing it? He's nothing more than a popular internet poster with a keen interest in hairloss. I'm okay with that. Jay let's be reasonable, hair loss falls under the umbrella we call science and science commands scientific data to support claims if it didnt we would all be in alot of trouble.
Lastly, if you read my posts carefully, I made a rec to the newbie that is proven, thus the big 3. That advice is sound and if he wishes to use fine, best of luck if not ...best of luck. I just didnt want him to get lost in all of these crazy concoctions when he could just try the most popular and proven out there first.

 

[CCS]

mbehr22,

Lookinggood! knows very little about meds, shampoos, and topicals, and has the maturity of a 3 year old. Don't listen to him.

Nizoral 1% was proven in a clinical study (by the people who sell it, unfortunately) to increase hair shaft diameter by 8%. The mechanism is unknown, but if you use 1mL every third day after a quick prewash with a normal cheap shampoo, a $15 7oz bottle will last a year.

dutasteride (dutasteride) inhibits 98.5% of DHT from 5ar2, and 50% from 5ar1, if taken every day. It has a long half life, which means you can miss a week and not hurt your hair. finasteride inhibits 90% and 0% respectively at 5mg per day. The only reason to use finasteride instead of dutasteride is if you get side effects, the dutasteride takes longer to leave your system. You can get it at http://www.inhousepharmacy.com for $13.50 for 10, free shipping, though I will get them in bulk for $1 per pill. Dutasteride daily regrows 50% more hair than finasteride 5mg in 6 months.

The copper peptides in Tricomin ($50 for 6oz) may reverse the fibrosis around follicles given time. It also will stop the itching in the back of your head.

For a more comprehensive list, look at my regimen or my website in my signature. None of my topicals cost more than $5 per month.

Minoxidil stimulates growth but does not stop the balding process. If you get on minoxidil, you will grow hair, but then will continue losing it at the same pace as before, and will additionally lose the same number of hairs you gained when you get off it. Propecia can actually stop the hair loss, or almost. The CPs in tricomin can repair some damage, but probably can't outrun the damage on their own. Prox-N has good stuff in it too. My GSE etc topical serves many perposes. But I'm not going to post my whole web site here.

 

[LookingGood!]

mbehr22,

Lookinggood! knows very little about meds, shampoos, and topicals, and has the maturity of a 3 year old. Don't listen to him.

Nizoral 1% was proven in a clinical study (by the people who sell it, unfortunately) to increase hair shaft diameter by 8%. The mechanism is unknown, but if you use 1mL every third day after a quick prewash with a normal cheap shampoo, a $15 7oz bottle will last a year.

dutasteride (dutasteride) inhibits 98.5% of DHT from 5ar2, and 50% from 5ar1, if taken every day. It has a long half life, which means you can miss a week and not hurt your hair. finasteride inhibits 90% and 0% respectively at 5mg per day. The only reason to use finasteride instead of dutasteride is if you get side effects, the dutasteride takes longer to leave your system. You can get it at http://www.inhousepharmacy.com for $13.50 for 10, free shipping, though I will get them in bulk for $1 per pill. Dutasteride daily regrows 50% more hair than finasteride 5mg in 6 months.

The copper peptides in Tricomin ($50 for 6oz) may reverse the fibrosis around follicles given time. It also will stop the itching in the back of your head.

For a more comprehensive list, look at my regimen or my website in my signature. None of my topicals cost more than $5 per month.

Minoxidil stimulates growth but does not stop the balding process. If you get on minoxidil, you will grow hair, but then will continue losing it at the same pace as before, and will additionally lose the same number of hairs you gained when you get off it. Propecia can actually stop the hair loss, or almost. The CPs in tricomin can repair some damage, but probably can't outrun the damage on their own. Prox-N has good stuff in it too. My GSE etc topical serves many perposes. But I'm not going to post my whole web site here.

I think you posting that was about as mature as the three yr old you have been all along. I dont care what you think nor is it important that you are a cheerleader for some posters on here. Its not about that and dont make it political. It is laughable that you make such a claim that I dont know anything about medicine. You know nothing about me anyway. Poor judgement as usual. Well guess what I support that fact b/c I am not a doctor. That is my full disclosure. You are certainly not a doctor but you insist you are. As I said many times that is not responsible. If you look at the advice I gave him it is the most sound advice for his current time frame. How is it relevant for you to plagerize what Tricomin, Avodart, finasteride and minoxidil supposedly do when I supported finasteride, minoxidil and Nizoral? Also, you are only speculating with minoxidil. Its like anything else, if you stop you may lose it and the shedding is only reports from a small population.

Instead of being immature, why dont you try to help him like I did and not "troll" or deviate from the thread like you are so good at instead of confusing or inundating him with your banter? You do this all the time and do not ever answer questions just try really hard to impress people with overkill.

I have one question for you and dont run and avoid the issue. Avodart has not been approved by the FDA yet. Why are you telling him to order it and where are you getting those claims of hair growth. Phase 3 trails were halted there. It is only a prostate med at this point.
Your regimen might work for you but it is an outrage that you dump that on newbies thinking it is helpful b/c it's cheap. What happens if one of these newbies gets ill from these unproven concoctions? I know you will never answer the question b/c you're immature and cant. At least what I advised is proven but you're not mature enough to realize that so you continue to dump your self serving nonsense on them time in and time again.

I'm out!