minoxidil 5% 3x is equal to Xandrox 15% 1x?
- Thread starter thylax
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I don't think the difference in quantities/concentrations is as important as the fact that the vehicles are different: Xandrox 15 contains alcohol (I believe), glycerin, and azelaic acid, whereas the two different versions of Rogaine use alcohol, propylene glycol, and water. Propylene glycol permeates through the skin better than glycerin, so that might be a strike against Xandrox 15.
As for the two versions of Rogaine...I have little doubt in my mind that 2.5 mL of 2% Rogaine is as effective as 1 mL of 5% Rogaine. And who knows? Might even be BETTER! :wink:
Bryan
As for the two versions of Rogaine...I have little doubt in my mind that 2.5 mL of 2% Rogaine is as effective as 1 mL of 5% Rogaine. And who knows? Might even be BETTER! :wink:
Bryan
Bryan, I take your view as an educated person's opinion. However, there have not been any studies so far (comparing xandrox 15 to minoxidil 5). Personally I saw improvment on the temples (not significant though) only after adding xandrox 15. Same is true for some users in the forum.
techprof said:
I am, hopefully, not know for my wild claims of sudden and uncontrolable regrowth, If you look through my posts I have no history of reported fanatastic personal results above what can be expected from minoxidil, finasteride, copper-peptides, ketoconazole or any of the other medications I have been using for close to two years.
Xandrox 15, without a doubt, has kick started some very obvious regrowth, this is no miracle return to an 18 year old hair line, but there are vellus and terminal hairs appearing in areas where almost 2 years of minoxidil 5% / Ketoconazole / finasteride / copper-peptides refused to recruit follicles.
I have nothing but respect for Bryans understanding of the pathology of hair loss, I have read (and mostly understood) his posts on the lack of in-vivo evidence for azelaic acids DHT inhibiting function or the doubt surrounding increased efficacy of high dose minoxidil, but what is a guy to do when suddenly after 2 years of consistent application of the proven, Xandrox 15 moves things forward in such an obvious manner ?
Redbone
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Xandrox 15% has been out for almost two years coming October and there is no hype or buzz about it, infact most don't even know it is available. When it was first introduced at $100 per 125ml it was touted as a breakthrough. If it were in fact a breakthrough we would have heard much more about it and it would be a staple in the arsenal such as Propecia.
I believe it is a keen business move by Dr. Lee to increase his revenue's. Not to say the product does not have some value but it does not deliver what was originally promised.
Regular 5% bottle Xandrox= 50mg of Minoxidil
15% bottle Xandrox= 150mg of Minoxidil
Isn't that just three times the dosage anyway?
I believe it is a keen business move by Dr. Lee to increase his revenue's. Not to say the product does not have some value but it does not deliver what was originally promised.
Regular 5% bottle Xandrox= 50mg of Minoxidil
15% bottle Xandrox= 150mg of Minoxidil
Isn't that just three times the dosage anyway?
sunray73
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After giving this much thought... I decided to try an experiment myself. Since the Kirkland stuff is so dirt cheap, I'm going to buy a bulk load and apply it 3 times at night, and 3 times in the mornings which should = to 15% morning and night. anyways.... be interesting to see what happens. After I finish up the foam stuff, thats my next move. Just hoping I don't go threw the shedding stage again... My hair has never been stronger than it is right now.
thylax said:
Minoxidil is dissolved in a liquid. I'm sure your scalp can only absorb so much liquid before it gets saturated and can't take any more. So I'd think from one dose, you could get better results from the 15% than from the 5% just because you can get more minoxidil into the scalp.
However, if you did 5% once a day, vs 5% 3x per day, then you might get more into your scalp. In fact, it is best to give your scalp a constant supply, rather than once a day. But 2-3x per day probably get close enough to keeping the scalp full. Anything over 4x would probably not give you better results.
Also, as you increase minoxidil concentration, you do get more hair, but not proportionately more. 15% does not give 3x as much hair as 5% does. From studies, we know that 5% only gives 50% more hair than 2% does, at the same liquid dose.
If money is no object, and you want best results, and don't get side effects, do Xandrox 3x per day, though that might be over kill.
1x per day can give some people benefit, but might not be enough for most people, or might just be good for maintenance.
IF you want to save money, 5% 3x per day is much cheaper than the xandrox, and may be close to as good.
If you are really dirt poor, you can use less than 1mL. But if you can't spread it far enough, you might dilute it with everclear. You will still get at east 2/3 the benefit at half the price.
IMO, the reason higher percentages work better is they are thicker and take longer to dry, giving a more steady absorption rate. 2% is mostly alcohol, and dumps the minoxidil in there fast. You might even get more minoxidil from the 2%, but get it dumped in so fast it just goes into the blood stream. And once the alcohol evaporates, no more minoxidil goes in. So you only get 45 minutes of dose, rather than 4 hours of dose from the greasy 5%. We all hate the greasy feeling, but it is the wet greasiness that keeps the minoxidil going into our scalps.
Re:
It is an issue of how fast the minoxidil leaves the scalp after the scalp is saturated. If it leaves fast, I think the gycerine would keep the alcohol from evaporating too fast, and keep a long lasting dose, giving the edge to the Xandrox. If minoxidil stays in the scalp a long time once it is saturated, then the fast alcohol vehicle could be better.
As for me, I hate grease in my hair. So I'd just use the diluted 5% to save money had get a fast dry dose. Maybe I'll get the best dose, maybe not. But convenience is high on my list. You can't stick to a regimen for the years it takes to work if can't stand it.
Maybe all you hair gel people won't mind the greasier high percentage stuff. It will blend right in.
Bryan said:
It is an issue of how fast the minoxidil leaves the scalp after the scalp is saturated. If it leaves fast, I think the gycerine would keep the alcohol from evaporating too fast, and keep a long lasting dose, giving the edge to the Xandrox. If minoxidil stays in the scalp a long time once it is saturated, then the fast alcohol vehicle could be better.
As for me, I hate grease in my hair. So I'd just use the diluted 5% to save money had get a fast dry dose. Maybe I'll get the best dose, maybe not. But convenience is high on my list. You can't stick to a regimen for the years it takes to work if can't stand it.
Maybe all you hair gel people won't mind the greasier high percentage stuff. It will blend right in.
sunray73
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Re:
I wish their were 'reps' to give on this site because Bryan deserves a huge one! Well it's been 2 months and my hair just did a 180!!! Hair is thicker than its EVER been(I'm talking since the last 5 years easy!). I decided only to go with applying 2 ml of 5% Kirkland twice a day and I'm freak'n loving it! :woot: I might just go for the 3 ml 5% in a month or 2 to see if it keep improving. I used Dr Lee's 15% in the past and aside from the sticky mess, it may have grown a little back but of course I had a crazy regimen back then so who knows what did what. You get much more coverage using 2 or 3 ml of minoxidil on your scalp. I'm to the point were I can almost skip the toppik(using no where near what I was). Anyways just wanted to say THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! :bravo:
p.s. My regimen now is only 1/4 fincar and 2ml minoxidil(changing to 3ml soon) and its insane how well my hair is doing. I also wash(shampoo and condition) my hair twice a day so I skip Nizoral since my scalp always feels great.
Bryan said:
I wish their were 'reps' to give on this site because Bryan deserves a huge one! Well it's been 2 months and my hair just did a 180!!! Hair is thicker than its EVER been(I'm talking since the last 5 years easy!). I decided only to go with applying 2 ml of 5% Kirkland twice a day and I'm freak'n loving it! :woot: I might just go for the 3 ml 5% in a month or 2 to see if it keep improving. I used Dr Lee's 15% in the past and aside from the sticky mess, it may have grown a little back but of course I had a crazy regimen back then so who knows what did what. You get much more coverage using 2 or 3 ml of minoxidil on your scalp. I'm to the point were I can almost skip the toppik(using no where near what I was). Anyways just wanted to say THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! :bravo:
p.s. My regimen now is only 1/4 fincar and 2ml minoxidil(changing to 3ml soon) and its insane how well my hair is doing. I also wash(shampoo and condition) my hair twice a day so I skip Nizoral since my scalp always feels great.
LostAnagenCycle
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sunray73 said:
WRONG. WRONG. WRONG.
uke: You are just applying Minoxidil (5% by solution) three (6) times a day!
The only way to get Minoxidil 15% is to apply a Minoxidil solution that is composed of 15% Minoxidil by volume (i.e., 150mg minoxidil/mL)!
All you are doing is applying three (3) times the recommended therapeutic dosage of Minoxdil 5% by solution (i.e., 50mg minoxidil/mL) in the morning and again at night.
P.S. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!
sunray73
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LostAnagenCycle said:sunray73 said:
WRONG. WRONG. WRONG.
You are just applying Minoxidil (5% by solution) three (6) times a day!
The only way to get Minoxidil 15% is to apply a Minoxidil solution that is composed of 15% Minoxidil by volume (i.e., 150mg minoxidil/mL)!
All you are doing is applying three (3) times the recommended therapeutic dosage of Minoxdil 5% by solution (i.e., 50mg minoxidil/mL) in the morning and again at night.
P.S. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!
uhuh... please have a talk and explain that to my hair then. We have a 3 post rocket scientist on our hands... :jackit:
LostAnagenCycle
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sunray73 said:LostAnagenCycle said:sunray73 said:
WRONG. WRONG. WRONG.
You are just applying Minoxidil (5% by solution) three (6) times a day!
The only way to get Minoxidil 15% is to apply a Minoxidil solution that is composed of 15% Minoxidil by volume (i.e., 150mg minoxidil/mL)!
All you are doing is applying three (3) times the recommended therapeutic dosage of Minoxdil 5% by solution (i.e., 50mg minoxidil/mL) in the morning and again at night.
P.S. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!
uhuh... please have a talk and explain that to my hair then. We have a 3 post rocket scientist on our hands... :jackit:
Let me try to help you address your ignorance.
Let's say a moron that does not understand chemistry or math is drinking Vodka that is 80 proof (40% alcohol by volume). According to this idiot's faulty logic, when this moron drinks 3 shots of Vodka (equivalent to roughly 3 ounces), the moron believes he is drinking 120% alcohol by volume of the 80 proof Vodka.
In truth, that idiot is simply drinking 3 ounces of 80 proof Vodka (40% alcohol by volume). The entire bottle of Vodka is 80 proof or 40% alcohol by volume equally distributed per mL or L in the bottle of Vodka.
Apparently, you ignored the science in my response. Minoxidil 15% is composed of 150mg minoxidil/mL; whereas, Minoxidil 5% is composed of 50mg minoxidil/mL.
Applying 3 mL of Minoxidil 5% DOES NOT equal 150mg minoxidil/mL or Minoxidil 15%.
It equals 3 mL of 50mg minoxidil/mL or Minoxidil 5%.
unk: P.S. Soon, you will see that you mistakenly called out a veteran poster! Notwithstanding this fact, a person's intelligence and contributions to this Forum should never be measured by the volume of posts attached to his or her handle!
Here, hand this out to your family and friends for them to display proudly: :stupid:
LMAO.
In all seriousness, email these two (2) email addresses to ask Dr. Lee, if you are still in doubt:
[email protected]
[email protected]
Best of luck. The Internet is serious business! :dunno: Lastly, if you are having success, then keep on trucking along my balding brother in your fight against alopecia!
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LostAnagenCycle said:sunray73 said:
WRONG. WRONG. WRONG.
You are just applying Minoxidil (5% by solution) three (6) times a day!
The only way to get Minoxidil 15% is to apply a Minoxidil solution that is composed of 15% Minoxidil by volume (i.e., 150mg minoxidil/mL)!
What you said is correct, but it's just a simple tautological statement!
What sunray73 probably MEANT by what he said is that applying standard 5% minoxidil three times as often may well be AS EFFECTIVE AT GROWING HAIR as applying the 15% minoxidil in the standard way, and he may be correct.
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LostAnagenCycle said:
Depends on exactly what you mean by "equal" in this specific context. Three mL of 5% minoxidil obviously isn't exactly the same (chemically) as one mL of 15% minoxidil, but its effectiveness at growing hair may be the same.
LostAnagenCycle
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Bryan said:
I concur that its effectiveness may PERHAPS be improved by increasing the quantity applied (this is pure speculation and results obviously will vary, although McNeil-PPC, Inc. disagrees), but applying three (3) times the recommended dosage of Minoxidil 5% is exactly that, 3 mL of Minoxidil 5%.
Applying three (3) times the recommended dosage (1 mL) of Minoxidil (Xandrox) 15% would not give you Minoxidil (Xandrox) 45%!
LostAnagenCycle
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Bryan said:LostAnagenCycle said:sunray73 said:
WRONG. WRONG. WRONG.
You are just applying Minoxidil (5% by solution) three (6) times a day!
The only way to get Minoxidil 15% is to apply a Minoxidil solution that is composed of 15% Minoxidil by volume (i.e., 150mg minoxidil/mL)!
What you said is correct, but it's just a simple tautological statement!
What sunray73 probably MEANT by what he said is that applying standard 5% minoxidil three times as often may well be AS EFFECTIVE AT GROWING HAIR as applying the 15% minoxidil in the standard way, and he may be correct.
Bryan,
I had a good laugh reading the above cited comment.
Notwithstanding the fact that sunray73 may be seeing results with his regimen, this is an interesting statement of pure speculation coming from the person on this Forum that is known for demanding data and controlled studies from others to back their claims.
Are you implying that McNeil-PPC, Inc., is being less than truthful by making the following statement in their directions for use: "4. sing more, or more often, will not improve results"?
LAC