Gadgetine

SM04554 Phase 2 results

Dench57

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Yea but Dench what if WNT somehow protects follicles by fighting off DHT? And what if the amount of WNT your body naturally produces declines over time? If that is the case then
stimulating WNT could solve the problem by bringing your WNT back up to a level that it could fight off DHT right? And then it wouldn't matter if your body still produced DHT right?

Well yes. That's what I'm saying. If SM and their WNT stimulation can override DHT then great, it would be a huge groundbreaking treatment the likes of which we've never seen before. But I'm pretty sure it doesn't - that it's just another growth stimulant ala Minoxidil.
 

Pavi

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Once again.... This shows just how powerful minoxidil can be

- - - Updated - - -

Minoxidil has outdone two drugs SPECIFICALLY made for Androgenetic Alopecia now. SM and Bim
 

resu

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Why can't anyone just do a modern take on Propecia without the sides for that matter? Half of us wouldn't even have to waste a single thought on regrowth if we had that. I mean, it's ridiculous; I bet once a solid maintenance drug is out, the science behind it will seem laughably simple and people will wonder how it even took this long - though it'll be too late for us by then. Like, we literally already know how to freaking stop this hellspawn of a deformity, it's just that no one can be bothered to develop a drug that would do it safely, without wrecking our balls and sexuality. Partly because they're too busy wanking off to their cute, edgy little theories.




Yeah, that's exactly it. My hair loss is recent enough that any one of these treatments would probably regrow enough hair - right now -
yet I still consider myself beyond saving simply because by the time they come out, I fear I will be.




Hahah, well, as long as it's not Pooh! But yeah, guess I might as well own up to my melancholy.

That's what CB is for but it's only coming out at best in 2021!
 

westonci

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Im convinced that swiss temples guy was right. The solution will never be a single pill/topical/injection.

We have to hit it from different fronts and angles. I mean it makes sense logically.
 

abcdefg

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Yeah the future is finding 45 minutes twice a day to apply 5-7 different topicals in a certain order to hit it from different angles, and pay hundreds of dollars a month in overpriced treatments. Sounds fun. You will probably still go bald anyway just slower.
 

Seuxin

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Swoop is right, the real question about SM is, these 10% are new follicle ? Or just , stimulated anagen hair ? It's REALLY important to know ! Have to try on temples yeah !!
 

Afro_Vacancy

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Yeah the future is finding 45 minutes twice a day to apply 5-7 different topicals in a certain order to hit it from different angles, and pay hundreds of dollars a month in overpriced treatments. Sounds fun. You will probably still go bald anyway just slower.

Thank you.
 

firstpost

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Swoop is right, the real question about SM is, these 10% are new follicle ? Or just , stimulated anagen hair ? It's REALLY important to know ! Have to try on temples yeah !!

Does it matter? By the time it comes out, if ever, we are all gonna lose 1-2 NWs.

Even if SM was a complete cure for baldness, its not of any use if we cant get it and no formula is available.
 

Follisket

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Once again.... This shows just how powerful minoxidil can be

- - - Updated - - -

Minoxidil has outdone two drugs SPECIFICALLY made for Androgenetic Alopecia now. SM and Bim

Powerful, right.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
 

Afro_Vacancy

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Is there any chance that Samumed will release their formula? What about CB, RU and Seti? How did that work? Did the companies release their formula?
Those formulas are released which is why you have group buys for them.

SM's is apparently a secret.
 

firstpost

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yes it matters. If SM creates new follicles, then the worry of maintenance is basically gone and irreversible component of hair loss is potentially gone. This really depends if the drug's effectiveness lessens over time/stops creating new follicles, though (if at all). It would also be the first of its kind and a much bigger deal than originally thought.

Yeah but it still is what? 5 years away? People are gonna go bald waiting for this.

The only benefit it does for us today is shows that LiCl can restore up to 10% of hairs(potentially).
 

hilbert

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Once again.... This shows just how powerful minoxidil can be

- - - Updated - - -

Minoxidil has outdone two drugs SPECIFICALLY made for Androgenetic Alopecia now. SM and Bim

wait wait wait...
https://www.samumed.com/files/2016/AGA_Post-AAD_Press_Release_03062016_FINAL.pdf

the hair count continued to increase at 45 days after stopping the treatment... I challenge any minoxidil to do that... 45 after quitting minoxidil we would be shedding like hell.

Interesting remarks imho now that we have the details:
0,25% is better than 0,15% in the short term (i.e. during the treatment), while 0,15% provided a better performance after the discontinuation.
Also nice the info on hair density... I guess we could / by the hair count and get some info on the calibers.

"Norwood-Hamilton Classification scales of 4, 5, 5A, 5V, or 6"... nice, and serious. Bet minoxidil doing something here, too.

I must be honest, I also felt a bit of pain when I first saw the results. But then stopped whining and went back using a bit of a rational mind. And now their info provides some better reasons to be hopeful. Still imho, of course.
 

Blackber

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wait wait wait...
https://www.samumed.com/files/2016/AGA_Post-AAD_Press_Release_03062016_FINAL.pdf

the hair count continued to increase at 45 days after stopping the treatment... I challenge any minoxidil to do that... 45 after quitting minoxidil we would be shedding like hell.

Interesting remarks imho now that we have the details:
0,25% is better than 0,15% in the short term (i.e. during the treatment), while 0,15% provided a better performance after the discontinuation.
Also nice the info on hair density... I guess we could / by the hair count and get some info on the calibers.

"Norwood-Hamilton Classification scales of 4, 5, 5A, 5V, or 6"... nice, and serious. Bet minoxidil doing something here, too.

I must be honest, I also felt a bit of pain when I first saw the results. But then stopped whining and went back using a bit of a rational mind. And now their info provides some better reasons to be hopeful. Still imho, of course.

I still remain optimistic about this.

No news about whether they're going to move into Phase III or what their next step might be, but they might be waiting until the second part of their Phase II finishes.
 

whatevr

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wait wait wait...
https://www.samumed.com/files/2016/AGA_Post-AAD_Press_Release_03062016_FINAL.pdf

the hair count continued to increase at 45 days after stopping the treatment... I challenge any minoxidil to do that... 45 after quitting minoxidil we would be shedding like hell.

Interesting remarks imho now that we have the details:
0,25% is better than 0,15% in the short term (i.e. during the treatment), while 0,15% provided a better performance after the discontinuation.
Also nice the info on hair density... I guess we could / by the hair count and get some info on the calibers.

"Norwood-Hamilton Classification scales of 4, 5, 5A, 5V, or 6"... nice, and serious. Bet minoxidil doing something here, too.

I must be honest, I also felt a bit of pain when I first saw the results. But then stopped whining and went back using a bit of a rational mind. And now their info provides some better reasons to be hopeful. Still imho, of course.

I read somewhere about a dose-response of this drug? Meaning there is a U-shaped curve most likely and more than optimal is not better.
So 0.25% might have reached the saturation point quicker but then that dose became too much and the results started to go negative, whereas 0.15% might be closer to the optimal dose but it takes slower to build up. Makes sense.
 

buckthorn

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I read somewhere about a dose-response of this drug? Meaning there is a U-shaped curve most likely and more than optimal is not better.
So 0.25% might have reached the saturation point quicker but then that dose became too much and the results started to go negative, whereas 0.15% might be closer to the optimal dose but it takes slower to build up. Makes sense.

"the sweet spot" I wish they would have tested it with more groups and more variable dosages. More isn't always necassarily better.
 

paleocapa89

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Btw, do you think we can finally reject the idea (hope) that SM creates new follicles? It would probably have been mentioned in their presentation, if it was true. And I'd assume if it was the case, there would be a positive dose response, which seems there isn't.
 
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