Its hard for me to believe sm is gonna be canned. 10-11 hairs at three months seems more than justifiable to proceed trials considering cb is pushing forward with trials with 13 hairs at 6 months and bim is being reevaluated with the same numbers as cb. The market is too underdeveloped for a company to not try and capitalize while the opportunity is still there. Sure none of these treatments are as exciting as tsuji but at the end of the day these products could potentially yield big returns while tsuji perfects his treatment..
SM04554 Phase 2 results
- Thread starter polka_man
- Start date
Not quite. We know they completed it, that's the problem. They completed it, but never said anything and haven't posted results. That leads me to believe they didn't improve on the initial results, which makes a phase III trial unlikely. I think SM04554 was more fundraising hype than anything else. It could improve on the results of minoxidil and finasteride, as you say, but that isn't enough to justify the costs of a Phase III trial, and commercialization; especially when we are so close to the release of superior treatments.
FCKW36
Experienced Member
- Reaction score
- 622
Hahahahahahaha, you are not very long in the game, right?
Here is the following email I recieved from Samumed a month or so ago. Clearly, they intend to do further studies, unless the supplmental study was a complete catastrophe. However, I dont understand why everyone thinks the next study will be a ph III. It technically will be a phII DR. Especially because the lower dosage was equivalent to the higher dosage.
"Dear Mr. ******
As you may have noticed in the past, we typically prefer to disclose our data first at a medical conference, and only then talk about it in other venues and in a more muted and limited manner. As such, we will respectfully decline to answer some of your more detailed questions. Having said that, I can say that we have a second Phase II biopsy study that will be completed by end of this quarter. We intend to share those results at a future medical venue, as well as incorporate them in our next study designs and planning."
"Dear Mr. ******
As you may have noticed in the past, we typically prefer to disclose our data first at a medical conference, and only then talk about it in other venues and in a more muted and limited manner. As such, we will respectfully decline to answer some of your more detailed questions. Having said that, I can say that we have a second Phase II biopsy study that will be completed by end of this quarter. We intend to share those results at a future medical venue, as well as incorporate them in our next study designs and planning."
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- 1,332
10% is total sh*t imo. I mean bottom line is that minoxidil heavily outperforms SM in the same time frame. That's a fact. And many other current treatments would induce 10% at 3 months like SM is able to do. Hell even a simple saline vehicle (placebo with no drug) can induce 4% hair count difference lol.
Drugs like SM, Seti, Bima, JAK's are a done case imo. It's kinda sad that we need to even look at these sub-par drugs that simply can't seem to match/outperform minoxidil/finasteride. That's the bottom point of it. Seems we are very, very desperate.
Yes one might hypothesize that SM might have brought better hair counts long term, but that's mostly wishful thinking imo.
I'm personally setting my sight mostly on Shiseido and Tsuji now.
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You haven't read the news about RIKEN and Kyocera? You'd have to be a fool to invest in something that may slightly improve on minoxidil when that is in the pipeline
Giiizmo
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 148
We're all rooting for Tsuji and team but for now it's nothing more than pie in the sky.
Also, not everyone can or even wants to invest several thousands in a new treatment when they could very well maintain with a topical for many years. A new topical treatment is still very relevant.
Only if it's superior to finasteride and min as a stand alone treatment. Big pharma isn't as interested in something that will compliment those two drugs as the people on this forum are. They are in it to earn profit, not to help us. How many people now use all of the big 3? The average consumer picks only one treatment, they don't want to use several different ones. Cheapskates will continue to use generic minoxidil, they won't give their money to Samumed. The average consumer won't be interested in spending $100/mo. for something that might make their $5/mo. minoxidil a little more effective. The die hards on the forum won't care because we will be getting Histogen, Replicel, Follica, and hair cloning. True, some of these treatments may not make it, but something will. From our point of view SM is worth having, but from an investment standpoint there simply isn't enough reward for the risk. With the speed at which regenerative medicine is progressing, and two very promising treatments/cures in the pipeline already, would you invest YOUR money in this drug? I wouldn't. I think they will continue to milk it as a fundraising tool for as long as they can and then quitly shelve it without ever performing a phase III trial.
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- Reaction score
- 3
Just found some jobs posted by Samumed in the past 2 weeks, not sure if it could be related to SM04554 but were posted after the update of the second trial (updated 13th July, first job posted was 15 days ago which would be the 13th July also).
Won't let me post this message, guessing it's due to the link I'm trying to add. Trying to post without the link to see if it works
/* Edit */
I can't post the link for some reason. If you go to Google search 'Samumed' use the search tools to filter the results to the past week, and for me the first link was a website called glassdoor which had the list of jobs.
Won't let me post this message, guessing it's due to the link I'm trying to add. Trying to post without the link to see if it works
/* Edit */
I can't post the link for some reason. If you go to Google search 'Samumed' use the search tools to filter the results to the past week, and for me the first link was a website called glassdoor which had the list of jobs.
It just says that it's an intern job
I tend to believe Angela Christiano and other hair biologists who've said the cure will probably be a topical cream or ointment. She said that years before she discovered JAK-inibs cause remarkable re-growth for alopecia areata sufferers.
- Reaction score
- 3
Still can't post the link guessing due to being a new member orsomething, so here's a screenshot of the page with the URL
- Reaction score
- 23
New article mentionning samumed and dr.christiano https://www.statnews.com/2016/08/12/hair-loss-biotech-women/
"Christiano’s work — she’s also got a second startup, taking an entirely different tack — reflects a burgeoning interest in the biotech community in treating hair loss as a medical condition. The problem has traditionally been treated as a cosmetic issue, so it’s drawn less attention than dire diseases like cancer"
People are finally starting to take this sh*t seriously
"Christiano’s work — she’s also got a second startup, taking an entirely different tack — reflects a burgeoning interest in the biotech community in treating hair loss as a medical condition. The problem has traditionally been treated as a cosmetic issue, so it’s drawn less attention than dire diseases like cancer"
People are finally starting to take this sh*t seriously
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Blackber
Experienced Member
- Reaction score
- 604
Agreed although the article mentions psychological effects in woman towards the end and not men. Blah blah blah, just give us hair already!!
resu
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 1,353
The psychological trauma from male pattern baldness is real, it's a disfiguring condition after all and you have to deal with this you somehow. Problem is that It's a taboo to complain and men don't want to admit how it affected them. SM04554 and other treatments seem great for the next generation of baldites but too little and, too late 4 me.
Why you say: «too late for me»? There is no hope for too advanced baldness (high severity)?
resu
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 1,353
Because once a follicle has been miniaturized for too long only stem cell treatments could potentially revert it back to a normal follicle.
- Reaction score
- 2,634
Follica was silent for like 5 years... and then they said they're aiming for a 2018 commercial release. But, they are overdue for an update.