Theory: Cooked Fat =DHT(Dihydrotestosterone) Baldness

[Guest]

yes enjoy the horseshoe. maybe it will suit you nicely.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

yes enjoy the horseshoe. maybe it will suit you nicely.

my situation ain't like that. but its clear u didnt rea the information

Hell of a question. I have no idea how a decrease in DHT can prevent the formation of non-hormone dependent prostate cancer.

All that I know is that BPH does not lead to prostate cancer.

Isn't BPH regarded as a pre-cancerous state? and whats a non-hormone dependent prostate cancer?

 

[bubka]

people like you come and go here all the time, just like your hair will continue too, good luck with your regime, but please don't try to argue with us that you have found the cure for male pattern baldness, when you actually get regrowth and restore all your hair, write a book and become a millionaire by all means

 

[Guest]

people like you come and go here all the time, just like your hair will continue too, good luck with your regime, but please don't try to argue with us that you have found the cure for male pattern baldness, when you actually get regrowth and restore all your hair, write a book and become a millionaire by all means

he'll probably have been using the Big 3 and then claim he used natural sh*t only to regrow it, likea lot of other hucksters.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

people like you come and go here all the time, just like your hair will continue too, good luck with your regime, but please don't try to argue with us that you have found the cure for male pattern baldness, when you actually get regrowth and restore all your hair, write a book and become a millionaire by all means

There is no cure. All there is, is hormonal balance.

I liken male pattern baldness to female PCOS (which causes male pattern baldness/FPB, hirutism etc). Similar conditions imo.

It seems your mind is closed however. For, if you had read the information, you would see its relevance.

he'll probably have been using the Big 3 and then claim he used natural $#iT only to regrow it, likea lot of other hucksters.

Untrue. I appreciate you guys will have heard a lot of crap before but I feel this information is fairly conclusive as to diet having an effect upon DHT and hormonal imbalances and hence male pattern baldness.

Basically, if we can decipher an ideal ratio of macronutrients and dietary ingredients then a form of 'cure' should be created (i.e. hormonal balance)

You read the info yet?

 

[michael barry]

What Dammitletmein is saying is that men who had a very high protien diet (with 21 percent of it fat) have been shown to lower their SHBG levels by 39%, so even though their testosterone levels are lower as a total, so much of the testosterone they have is "unbound" that there is more of it available to be changed into DHT by alpha five reductaste in the scalp hair follicles outer root sheath (where the type two enzyme resides) and in the prostate (it resides there also).

Note: as Bryan has pointed out ad infinitum, the huge majority of the DHT that effects your hair is converted from Testosterone right there in the follicle's outer root sheath. Its not brought there all that much from the bloodstream.

I would be interested to know if the high carbohydrate diet the subjects were fed were a low glycemic index carb diet (veggies, nuts, fruits) and not a high glycemic index one (pasta, white bread, white flour, sugars, processed food, corn syrup) because of the effect on the adrenals and their uptick in T and lessening of globulin.



Note for Dammitletmein...................Green tea catechins supposedly up globulin levels. I think there are a few other foodstuffs that are noted to raise it also (have to google that sometime).



The post was informative however. But one would not hesitate to add......................just about everyone on this site who has read it for a while conceeds the Western Diet is tough on hair.

 

[docj077]

Hell of a question. I have no idea how a decrease in DHT can prevent the formation of non-hormone dependent prostate cancer.

All that I know is that BPH does not lead to prostate cancer.

Isn't BPH regarded as a pre-cancerous state? and whats a non-hormone dependent prostate cancer?[/quote]

The nodular hyperplasia associated with BPH is not considered to be pre-malignant.

Granted, most prostate cancer is hormone dependent, but there are some forms that are not.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

What Dammitletmein is saying is that men who had a very high protien diet (with 21 percent of it fat) have been shown to lower their SHBG levels by 39%, so even though their testosterone levels are lower as a total, so much of the testosterone they have is "unbound" that there is more of it available to be changed into DHT by alpha five reductaste in the scalp hair follicles outer root sheath (where the type two enzyme resides) and in the prostate (it resides there also).

Note: as Bryan has pointed out ad infinitum, the huge majority of the DHT that effects your hair is converted from Testosterone right there in the follicle's outer root sheath. Its not brought there all that much from the bloodstream.

I would be interested to know if the high carbohydrate diet the subjects were fed were a low glycemic index carb diet (veggies, nuts, fruits) and not a high glycemic index one (pasta, white bread, white flour, sugars, processed food, corn syrup) because of the effect on the adrenals and their uptick in T and lessening of globulin.



Note for Dammitletmein...................Green tea catechins supposedly up globulin levels. I think there are a few other foodstuffs that are noted to raise it also (have to google that sometime).



The post was informative however. But one would not hesitate to add......................just about everyone on this site who has read it for a while conceeds the Western Diet is tough on hair.

Michael, just wondering, did you read the full content of the two links I specified or just the post I made? The second link deals with carbs and fats...

This is from the second link:

'While it is difficult to say if a higher fat or lower fat diet would be better for increasing the bioactivity of T, it does appear that higher fat and lower fiber-type diets are associated with greater excretion of T.'

^^
This suggests that a higher fat diet reduces the bioavailability of testosterone.

Also:

Diets with a fat intake greater than the carb intake lower total T levels, and may actually decrease the bioactivity of T in the body.

^^^
interesting

Also:

'While the role of fat is not entirely clear, saturated fat and cholesterol are closely linked to higher levels of T and PUFAs have some modifying role.'

^^^
interesting

WE SHOULD BE DOING THE OPPOSITE OF THIS:

So, what is the best type of diet to follow if your only concern is to increase T levels and make more of it available to the body for the purpose of improving lean body mass and/or performance?

It would seem that Carb intake must exceed Fat intake by at least 40% to keep the bioactive fraction of T high. Fat intake should be at least 30%, saturated fat needs to be higher than PUFA, and fiber intake needs to be low.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So essentially, we should take more fat than carbs whilst making sure the fat we eat is not saturated or cholesterol laden.

This sounds similar to the japanese pre-war diet imo.

 

[wookster]

:freaked: :freaked: :freaked:

http://www.immortalhair.homestead.com/f ... s_Book.htm

Cultures and regions of people, who consume fats that have been hydrogenated often, have less hair than those that eat whole-unprocessed foods do. Good fats or essential fats are often removed from shelf products to prevent spoilage, while the fats that are present in processed foods are converted to a harmful trans-fat form.

The levels of dihydrotestosterone are higher in people who eat an abundance of hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated fats. Red meat, processed convenient foods, pastries and margarine increase levels of testosterone in the body. A healthy intake of essential fatty acids that come from plants, whole grains and fish can prevent the malevolent effects of trans-fats on hormone reactions.

A dietary deficiency in essential fatty acids (EFAs) can leave your body unable to cope with the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme. Essential fatty acids help curb the activity of the enzyme. A diet lacking in Omega-3 fatty acids is particularly detrimental.

 

[Bertie]

So essentially, we should take more fat than carbs whilst making sure the fat we eat is not saturated or cholesterol laden.

This sounds similar to the japanese pre-war diet imo.

So a week ago, you were certain the cooked fats directly raised 5AR levels and therefore DHT. (You were called to produce an actual scientific citation for this, not some Internet quack, but failed to do so.)

Now things have changed a little, and we are supposed to eat a high fat, high protein diet. I happen to think pretty highly of low carb (or at least low-GI) systems, although I know of no real evidence that they affect hair. But it's a long way from "no cooked fats" to low carb or low-GI diets. In fact, such diets are quite a bit easier to maintain when one allows oneself a large quantity of animal products (which, realisticly, are all "cooked fats" as hardly anyone eats raw meat). It is difficult to be a vegetarian on a low-carb system, and impossible to be a vegan.

Tell me -- if you're not going to eat "cooked fats," just how to you plan on getting the moderately high fat intake you advocate in the post above?

(Furthermore, about this Japan thing -- even granting a post-war increase in male pattern baldness among that population -- which is quite a concession on flimsy evidence -- you do realize that the changes to Japanese society since then are considerable, and perhaps focusing on one alleged change -- an alledged increase in "cooked fats," is ignoring a lot of other variables.)

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

I did produce a scientific evidence on higher cholesterol being linked to higher DHT. I even made a thread about it.

But I accept at that point although I was pushing in the right area I was slightly off the mark.

Ok, it seems to me that it is not so much how many carbs you eat which is of importance but:

(1) The ratio the intake of carbs has with fat and protein. (the macronutrient balance)).

(2) The effect of the carbs on blood-sugar/insulin (that is, they should be low glycemic).


Which brings us to the point of where do you get all this dietary fat if its not cooked (as you know cooked saturates send up testosterone).

The answer lies with the Eskimos (which actually means 'he who eats raw'). They ate everything raw - including fat.

Today the potential sources of raw fat in our diet are few and far between. They include:

Raw dairy (if its not outlawed - available in California or if ur friends with a dairy farmer), Raw eggs, Avocado (Guacamole), Flaxseed oil, Olive Oil (notoriously good for hair as monosaturates are a great balance), rare steak.

In truth, raw dairy is the key, you can make all sorts with it.

 

[grass]

Iv'e been experiencing hair thining since 2000.. I moved to Rome for about a year in 2002, and while I was there, I noticed my hair would grow a lot faster, looked fuller, and even changed color slightly. After a few years back in the US, it got worse again. I dont know why, but I can only imagine it had something to do with diet or environment. Diet, water quality, stress levels, or something else.. I really dont know.

 

[Bryan]

Which brings us to the point of where do you get all this dietary fat if its not cooked (as you know cooked saturates send up testosterone).

Actually, I don't believe you've yet provided any evidence about the effect of cooked vs. uncooked fat on testosterone, or even saturated versus unsaturated. While it wouldn't surprise me very much if saturated fat did indeed increase testosterone slightly more than unsaturated fat for the simple reason that it's well-known to increase cholesterol production more, nevertheless I'm trying to get you into the habit of DOCUMENTING your claims step-by-step, and not just jumping to all kinds of conclusions that aren't really warranted! :wink:

Bryan

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

Which brings us to the point of where do you get all this dietary fat if its not cooked (as you know cooked saturates send up testosterone).

Actually, I don't believe you've yet provided any evidence about the effect of cooked vs. uncooked fat on testosterone, or even saturated versus unsaturated. While it wouldn't surprise me very much if saturated fat did indeed increase testosterone slightly more than unsaturated fat for the simple reason that it's well-known to increase cholesterol production more, nevertheless I'm trying to get you into the habit of DOCUMENTING your claims step-by-step, and not just jumping to all kinds of conclusions that aren't really warranted! :wink:

Bryan

No offence dude, but if you had read the ful content of those two links I specified above you would see JUST HOW MUCH diet affects DHT levels, globulin and the bioavailability of testosterone.

I believe the ratio of protein/fat/carbohydrate is the KEY to baldness.

Why do you think there ARE so many diet/hairloss threads? its because diet has an impact upon DHT production and thus the quaity of hair.

The cooked/uncooked thing isn't of paramount importance but it is important especially where saturates are concerned.

Everyones looking for a magic pill/potion to help hairloss. But how is it ever going to work if ur diets working against it?

 

[Bryan]

Which brings us to the point of where do you get all this dietary fat if its not cooked (as you know cooked saturates send up testosterone).

Actually, I don't believe you've yet provided any evidence about the effect of cooked vs. uncooked fat on testosterone, or even saturated versus unsaturated. While it wouldn't surprise me very much if saturated fat did indeed increase testosterone slightly more than unsaturated fat for the simple reason that it's well-known to increase cholesterol production more, nevertheless I'm trying to get you into the habit of DOCUMENTING your claims step-by-step, and not just jumping to all kinds of conclusions that aren't really warranted! :wink:

Bryan

No offence dude, but if you had read the ful content of those two links I specified above you would see JUST HOW MUCH diet affects DHT levels, globulin and the bioavailability of testosterone.

Did you even bother to read what I said in that paragraph above? I wasn't talking about diet IN GENERAL, I was talking about the SPECIFIC CLAIM YOU MADE about cooked/uncooked and saturated/unsaturated foods. Why don't you address what I said about that, instead of changing the subject to something else?

I read through those two links quickly, and didn't spot anything at all about cooked/uncooked. There was _some_ material about saturated/unsaturated, but even they acknowledged that the research is rather uncertain and sometimes even conflicting.

I believe the ratio of protein/fat/carbohydrate is the KEY to baldness.

I totally disagree.

The cooked/uncooked thing isn't of paramount importance but it is important especially where saturates are concerned.

Why do you feel that way? Please be specific. I think you have it backwards: if anything, cooked/uncooked should be a more important factor for UNsaturates than saturates.

Bryan

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

Quote:

'Saturated fat and cholesterol are closely linked to higher levels of T (testosterone)'


Look man, you're just not seeing what I'm seeing.

The stud(ies) clearly state that Carb intake must exceed Fat intake by 40% to keep the BIOACTIVE level of testosterone high.

Now, if one uses his brain, he will come to the conclusion that in order to keep testosterone at a healthy level he will eat a diet which is higher in fat than carbs.

But not cooked fat because cooked saturates send testosterone up

 

[Bryan]

But not cooked fat because cooked saturates send testosterone up

Please post a medical reference or citation for that claim.

Bryan

 

[bubka]

Quote:

'Saturated fat and cholesterol are closely linked to higher levels of T (testosterone)'


Look man, you're just not seeing what I'm seeing.

The stud(ies) clearly state that Carb intake must exceed Fat intake by 40% to keep the BIOACTIVE level of testosterone high.

Now, if one uses his brain, he will come to the conclusion that in order to keep testosterone at a healthy level he will eat a diet which is higher in fat than carbs.

But not cooked fat because cooked saturates send testosterone up

so wtf does that have to do with male pattern baldness then, you cannot just link one study to another and have a conclusion and say it is fact, its your theory, and its a bad one at that...

most of your "studies" seemed to be just articles or periodical publications, not an actual scientific study

my god, people went bald way before the advent of grain harvesting, sugar cane, and hi fructose corn syrup

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

Quote:

'Saturated fat and cholesterol are closely linked to higher levels of T (testosterone)'


Look man, you're just not seeing what I'm seeing.

The stud(ies) clearly state that Carb intake must exceed Fat intake by 40% to keep the BIOACTIVE level of testosterone high.

Now, if one uses his brain, he will come to the conclusion that in order to keep testosterone at a healthy level he will eat a diet which is higher in fat than carbs.

But not cooked fat because cooked saturates send testosterone up

so wtf does that have to do with male pattern baldness then, you cannot just link one study to another and have a conclusion and say it is fact, its your theory, and its a bad one at that...

most of your "studies" seemed to be just articles or periodical publications, not an actual scientific study

my god, people went bald way before the advent of grain harvesting, sugar cane, and hi fructose corn syrup

The basis of the information in those two links is based upon a multitiude of scientific studies.

Show me your source about baldness occurring before grains became a mainstay of the diet.

Eskimos - 60%-80% raw fat diet and low or no carbs = no baldness

Native aMericans - very high raw fat diet and low carbs = no baldness

Pre-War japs = low carbs = no baldness

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

But not cooked fat because cooked saturates send testosterone up

Please post a medical reference or citation for that claim.

Bryan

Again, I quote:

'Saturated fat and cholesterol are closely linked to higher levels of T (testosterone)'

^^
This is on the basis of cooked fat

Cooked extra virgin olive oil will not do the same damage to cholesterol levels because it is mostly monosaturated fat. (also Olive oil is notoriously good for hair most likely on the basis that its a hormone balancer)