Theory: Cooked Fat =DHT(Dihydrotestosterone) Baldness

[Old Baldy]

DLM: Bubka and Bryan are right IMHO. You've got to produce some specific studies showing oil and/or diet are the cause of male pattern baldness.

I haven't seen any. I do agree that bad diet can only hurt our ailment but cause it.......hmmm?

Btw, the pre-war Japanese people I knew ate alot of white rice. Aren't there alot of carbs. in white rice?

Also, as Bryan alluded to, saturated fats like coconut oil and palm oil hold up much better when heated than most unsaturated oils. However, peanut oil ain't too bad in that category either.

So, it appears to me that you're a little "all over the board" in these diet conclusions relative to their direct effect on male pattern baldness. I think these "all over the board" posts you are making are due to there NOT being specific studies concluding diet directly causes male pattern baldness.

I react that way sometimes, relative to certain subjects, because I have to "connect the dots" when there aren't any direct studies answering my question(s). The problem is, my "connecting of the dots" could be wrong.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

DLM: Bubka and Bryan are right IMHO. You've got to produce some specific studies showing oil and diet are direct causes of male pattern baldness.

I haven't seen any. I do agree that bad diet can only hurt our ailment but cause it.......hmmm?

Btw, the pre-war Japanese people I knew ate alot of white rice. Aren't there alot of carbs. in white rice?

there is also fat and protein in rice so the macronutrient ratio is better plus they ate a lot of good fats in fish. plus baldness DID exist in the pre-war japs (altho rare) but anyways the second of these articles is based on these studies:


Anderson KE. Rosner W. Khan MS. New MI. Pang SY. Wissel PS. Kappas A. Diet-hormone interactions: protein/carbohydrate ratio alters reciprocally the plasma levels of testosterone and cortisol and their respective binding globulins in man. Life Sciences. 40(18):1761-8, 1987 May 4.

Kappas A. Anderson KE. Conney AH. Pantuck EJ. Fishman J. Bradlow hair loss. Nutrition-endocrine interactions: induction of reciprocal changes in the delta 4-5 alpha-reduction of testosterone and the cytochrome P-450-dependent oxidation of estradiol by dietary macronutrients in man. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America. 80(24):7646-9, 1983 Dec.

Belanger A, A Locong, C Noel, et al. Influence of diet on plasma steroid and sex plasma binding globulin levels in adult men. Journal of Steroid Biochemistry. 32(6): 829-833, 1989.

Bishop DT, AW Meikle, ML Slattery, et al. The Effect of Nutritional Factors on Sex Hormone Levels in Male Twins. Genetic Epidemiology. 5:43-49, 1988.

Deslypere JP & A Vermeulen. Leydig cell function in normal men: effect of age, lifestyle, residence, and activity. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism. 59(5):955-962, 1984.

Dorgan JF, JT Judd, C Longcope, et al. Effects of dietary fat and fiber on plasma and urine androgens and estrogens in men: a controlled feeding study. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 64(6): 850-5, 1996 Dec.

Field AE, GA Colditz, WC Wilett, et al. The relation of smoking, age, relative weight, and dietary intakes to serum adrenal steroids, sex hormones, and sex hormone binding globulin in middle-aged men. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism. 79(5):1310-1316, 1994.

Hamalainen E, H Adlercreutz, P Puska, et al. Diet and serum sex hormones in healthy men. Journal of Steroid Biochemistry. 20(1): 459-464, 1984 Jan.

Hill PB & EL Wynder. Effect of a vegetable diet and dexamethasone on plasma prolactin, testosterone, and dehydroepiandrosterone in men and women. Cancer Letters, 7:273-282, 1979.

Hill PB, EL Wynder, L Garbaczewski, et al. Diet and urinary steroids in black and white North American and black South African men. Cancer Research. 39:5101-5105, 1979.

Hill PB, EL Wynder, L Garbaczewski, et al. Plasma hormones and lipids in men at different risk for coronary heart disease. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 33: 1010-1018, 1980 May.

Howie BJ & TD Shultz. Dietary and hormonal vegetarian Seventh-Day Adventists and nonvegetarian men. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 42: 127-134, 1985 July.

Key TJA, L Roe, M Thorogood, et al. British Journal of Nutrition. 64:111-119, 1990.

Meikle AW, JD Stringham, MG Woodward, et al. Effects of a fat-containing meal on sex hormones in men. Metabolism: Clinical & Experimental. 39(9): 943-946, 1990 Sep.

Raben A, B Kiens, EA Richter, et al. Serum sex hormones and endurance performance after a lacto-ovo vegetarian and a mixed diet. Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise. 24(11): 1290-1297, 1992 Nov.

Reed MJ, RW Cheng, M Simmonds, et al. Dietary lipids: an additional regulator of plasma levels of sex hormone binding globulin. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism. 64(5): 1083-5, 1987 May.

Rosenthal MB, RJ Barnard, DP Rose, et al. Effects of a high complex carbohydrate, low-fat, low-cholesterol diet on levels of serum lipids and estradiol. American Journal of Medicine. 78(1): 23-27, 1985 Jan.

Tsai L, J Karpakka, C Aginger, et al. Basal concentrations of anabolic and catabolic hormones in relation to endurance exercise after short-term changes in diet. European Journal of Applied Physiology & Occupational Physiology. 66(4): 304-308, 1993.

Volek JS, WJ Kraemer, JA Bush, et al. Testosterone and cortisol in relationship to dietary nutrients and resistance exercise. Journal of Applied Physiology. 82(1): 49-54, 1997 Jan.

and I gather many many more studies were considered.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

Read the Article CLOSELY and you'll see how eating the wrong amounts of protein/fat/carbs can make the body produce too much testosterone/DHT.

 

[Bryan]

But not cooked fat because cooked saturates send testosterone up

Please post a medical reference or citation for that claim.

Again, I quote:

'Saturated fat and cholesterol are closely linked to higher levels of T (testosterone)'

^^
This is on the basis of cooked fat

What do you mean, "this is on the basis of cooked fat"?? Where is ANYTHING about cooking or elevated temperatures in that statement above?

Bryan

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

But not cooked fat because cooked saturates send testosterone up

Please post a medical reference or citation for that claim.

Again, I quote:

'Saturated fat and cholesterol are closely linked to higher levels of T (testosterone)'

^^
This is on the basis of cooked fat

What do you mean, "this is on the basis of cooked fat"?? Where is ANYTHING about cooking or elevated temperatures in that statement above?

Bryan

Come on man. You think they used raw fat? You really think they fed their subjects raw fish, raw eggs, raw meat, raw milk?

its based on a cooked study.

 

[Old Baldy]

DLM: I think you're confusing white rice with brown rice? White rice has 6 grams of protein to 82 grams of carbs. in a 100 gram serving! At least brown rice has far more fat, fiber, etc.

http://www.pechsiam.com/allabout_nutrition.htm

 

[Bryan]

What does THAT have to do with anything? You've made the claim that cooking fat per se causes it to raise testosterone. I'm asking you to provide some evidence for that.

Bryan

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

DLM: I think you're confusing white rice with brown rice? White rice has 6 grams of protein to 82 grams of carbs. At least brown rice has far more fat, fiber, etc.

http://www.pechsiam.com/allabout_nutrition.htm

Do the Japanese look like a fat race of people to you?

 

[Old Baldy]

Some of their pro wrestlers do. :lol:

See what I mean though, you are a little "all over the board".

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

Some of their pro wrestlers do. :lol:

See what I mean though, you are a little "all over the board".

I don't think so at all. Its clear that the Japanese aren't a fat race and are likely to have had low insulin.

Whilst they did eat rice, it was also complemented with a diet base on fish, soy, vegetables, rice and tea to provide a balance which is reflected in their hormones and on their head.

Japanese people eat 47 times more fish than Westerners

Still tho, you keep eating your big bread meals.

 

[Old Baldy]

There you go again, "all over the board". I'd honestly say that my diet is probably about a 9 out of 10 but I still have male pattern baldness. :cry:

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

What does THAT have to do with anything? You've made the claim that cooking fat per se causes it to raise testosterone. I'm asking you to provide some evidence for that.

Bryan

How many times am I going to gve you that quote.

It is my contention that raw saturates would not do the same damage.

Are you interested in a macronutrient intake which balances your hormones or not?

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

There you go again, "all over the board". I'd honestly say that my diet is probably about a 9 out of 10 but I still have male pattern baldness. :cry:

Do you eat a diet which is greater in raw fat/good fats than carbs?

 

[Old Baldy]

No, but it's pretty close. I don't eat raw meat fat though. Don't eat much meat at all really. Mostly veggies and fruit. You know, juicing, large salads, beans, etc.

Most of the fat I consume comes from directly drinking olive oil everyday.

Problem is I eat ALOT!!

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

No, but it's pretty close. I don't eat raw meat fat though. Don't eat much meat at all really. Mostly veggies and fruit. You know, juicing, large salads, etc.

Problem is I eat ALOT!!

sound like a high carb diet to me. I can bet its not green vegetables that you juice, right?

 

[Old Baldy]

My main juice ingredients are: Carrots, celery, apple, cabbage and spinach. And yes, now that I think about it you're correct, there are ALOT of carbs. in those drinks.

But I'm not going to replace that stuff with raw meat fat. Sorry, I just don't like meat that much.

Just a tidbit: Drinking too much undiluted green juice can be a little too strong for my system. I get a little dizzy.

You know, one of my friends is on the Atkins high protein diet. He gets about 10 colds a year and I get none. Well, I had a cold about 10 years ago. His joints hurt all the time, mine hardly bother me at all. He gets headaches alot and takes about 5 aspirins a day. I take none and can't remember the last headache I've had (and I drink whiskey for Godsakes). He has little stamina and has to ride a cart when we golf. I walk all the time and walking a round of golf is easy for me. He has hemmoroids(sp?), I have none. His blood pressure is on the cusp of being high, mine is 120 over 75.

He is thinner than me though. Big deal!!

Also, my friend is a NW7.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

My main juice ingredients are: Carrots, celery, apple, cabbage and spinach. And yes, now that I think about it you're correct, there are ALOT of carbs. in those drinks.

Its not so much the carb content but the glycemic index. Celery is very good as is cabbage and spinach but the effect of Apple juice and carrot juice on blood sugar is fairly big.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

Take PCOS as an example.

The macronutrient balance is not right and womens hormonal balance goes out of kilter, too much T is produced and they develop male pattern baldness.

There are diets aimed at curing PCOS.

The same thing basically happens in men with baldness

 

[Old Baldy]

My main juice ingredients are: Carrots, celery, apple, cabbage and spinach. And yes, now that I think about it you're correct, there are ALOT of carbs. in those drinks.

Its not so much the carb content but the glycemic index. Celery is very good as is cabbage and spinach but the effect of Apple juice and carrot juice on blood sugar is fairly big.

Yes, it's those carrots and apples. I just like them too much DLM. They make me feel healthy when I eat and juice them everyday.

Another one of my favorites in the winter is one apple blended with 1/2 cup of cranberries. I blend these and drink them fiber and all. Probably very high in carbs. also. But I do this a few times a week to avoid colds and flu, and help lube up the old joints.

DLM, I've found what works for me diet wise. Don't know if this would work for everyone but it works for me, that's all I'm really saying.

Plus, isn't fructose a slow digesting sugar?

 

[Bryan]

What does THAT have to do with anything? You've made the claim that cooking fat per se causes it to raise testosterone. I'm asking you to provide some evidence for that.

Bryan

How many times am I going to gve you that quote.

What on earth are you talking about?? You haven't yet provided any quote about cooked/uncooked.

It is my contention that raw saturates would not do the same damage.

Why do you believe that?

Are you interested in a macronutrient intake which balances your hormones or not?

Not particularly. I doubt that food choices have much to do with balding. Maybe just a very tiny influence.

Bryan