Are spironolactone and minoxidil enough?
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exstatic
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packers, I once asked a similar question.. but the only answer you ever get here is 'why arent you on propecia? you have to be on propecia to see results, nothing else works..'..
From the facts.. spironolactone and minoxidil with nizoral, should be enough to help at least maintain what you have, with minoxidil helping out on growth.. although they say spironolactone isnt as effective as propecia, I think it's certainly better than nothing!
I am in the same boat as you, i've been taking minoxidil for over 6 weeks now, and am starting to see results after a small shed, and now im starting to apply spironolactone.. so hopefully that will help. Ive also been taking Multi V's and using Nizoral every second day.. I also use some natural hair thickening shampoo/conditioner which seems to help..
Good Luck
From the facts.. spironolactone and minoxidil with nizoral, should be enough to help at least maintain what you have, with minoxidil helping out on growth.. although they say spironolactone isnt as effective as propecia, I think it's certainly better than nothing!
I am in the same boat as you, i've been taking minoxidil for over 6 weeks now, and am starting to see results after a small shed, and now im starting to apply spironolactone.. so hopefully that will help. Ive also been taking Multi V's and using Nizoral every second day.. I also use some natural hair thickening shampoo/conditioner which seems to help..
Good Luck
yes exstatic, i remember you asking that, i agree it comes quite annoying, especially when someone puts it in the OTHER hairloss treatments, i think people do it with the best intentions though, but it would be nice if people just answered the question for once. without mentioning the 'P' word
packers, i would use spironolactone and maybe revovigen aswel, they both compliment each other nicely, you only have to use revovigen at night, so even though it can be messy, it doesnt matter, as no one is to worried about what your hair looks like when your asleep
packers, i would use spironolactone and maybe revovigen aswel, they both compliment each other nicely, you only have to use revovigen at night, so even though it can be messy, it doesnt matter, as no one is to worried about what your hair looks like when your asleep
Packers
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The thing is I've used Revivogen already for 9 months. I can't tell if it slowed my hairloss down though because I had my hair buzzed the entire time. I decided to stop using it because it ran out and because it was leaving a little bit of an orange film on my scalp.
did you keep it in the fridge? ok mate if you have used and didnt get on with it thats fair enough, i only mention it because the moderator uses spironolactone and revovigen, and says they are the next best thing and work well together,and have maintaned his hairline for the last six years,but if you didnt get on with it, in that case just keep with the spironolactone, i have just ordered my revovigen, so i dont no how messy/effective it is, so i might come to the same conclusion as yourself.
freudling
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Way too many contentious claims. Yes, propecia is effective. How much more effective than spironolactone 5% nobody can say. Outside of testimonials, we don't have much research on it. But there are studies out there and the efficacy in terms of hair growth is almost identical to some propecia studies. Long-term stats we have to wait for.
So, to answer your question, people love pushing propecia, but if you only have small areas to apply hairloss topicals too and you are going to include at least minoxidil, spironolactone and copper peptides with Nizoral, you are combating it with an effective regime. My copper peptides have Saw Palmetto in them. So, my all topical regime stimulates growth (minoxidil), competes for DHT receptor sites on the hair follicle (spironolactone), reduces the formation of DHT via inhibiting 5-alpha reductase (Nizoral and Copper Peptides) and reduces inflammation. Propecia will not compete for receptor sites on the follicle. So, this is one angle that could prove very effective. On paper is should work as good as a minoxidil/propecia regime. The research suggests this as well.
Even more powerful, I have added Xandrox 5% at night with Retonic Acid and Azelaic acid. The latter is supposed to be a free radical scavenger and to also inhibit DHT formation. Retonic Acid aids minoxidil in terms of diffusing into the skin.
As can be seen, I have thrown a battery of substances at my hair and I feel confident that this will be effective, as effective as any other regime out there, save for some very shifty experimental ones. However, those are not an option for safety reasons.
If you feel comfortable reduces DHT systemically, go for it. Personally, I felt that my body changed (both physically and mentally) for the worse. I was on Propecia on and off for 2.5 years. I quit 8 months ago and will probably never use it again, unless something drastic happens with my hair. DHT does have a purpose in the body, namely, it helps with tissue regulation, among others. Because of my experience, I am off propecia as I do not want to offset my bodies balance.
So, to answer your question, people love pushing propecia, but if you only have small areas to apply hairloss topicals too and you are going to include at least minoxidil, spironolactone and copper peptides with Nizoral, you are combating it with an effective regime. My copper peptides have Saw Palmetto in them. So, my all topical regime stimulates growth (minoxidil), competes for DHT receptor sites on the hair follicle (spironolactone), reduces the formation of DHT via inhibiting 5-alpha reductase (Nizoral and Copper Peptides) and reduces inflammation. Propecia will not compete for receptor sites on the follicle. So, this is one angle that could prove very effective. On paper is should work as good as a minoxidil/propecia regime. The research suggests this as well.
Even more powerful, I have added Xandrox 5% at night with Retonic Acid and Azelaic acid. The latter is supposed to be a free radical scavenger and to also inhibit DHT formation. Retonic Acid aids minoxidil in terms of diffusing into the skin.
As can be seen, I have thrown a battery of substances at my hair and I feel confident that this will be effective, as effective as any other regime out there, save for some very shifty experimental ones. However, those are not an option for safety reasons.
If you feel comfortable reduces DHT systemically, go for it. Personally, I felt that my body changed (both physically and mentally) for the worse. I was on Propecia on and off for 2.5 years. I quit 8 months ago and will probably never use it again, unless something drastic happens with my hair. DHT does have a purpose in the body, namely, it helps with tissue regulation, among others. Because of my experience, I am off propecia as I do not want to offset my bodies balance.
i agree, you have to ask why did nature give us dht, its a hormone that is part of being a man, people that have taken dht based hormones, like bodybuilders, proviron for example, report a massive increase in sex drive, a more cut defined body,decrease in body fat, a great sense of well being,and we are actually inhibiting that,i was not comfortable with that.
im hoping in future studies that spironolactone turns out to be as effective as finasteride, or hopefully more topical anti-androgens are studied and developed
im hoping in future studies that spironolactone turns out to be as effective as finasteride, or hopefully more topical anti-androgens are studied and developed
Dave001
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Packers said:
Your dilemma is quite understandable. The people who tell you that finasteride is your only, or even best option, and that you must use an "internal DHT inhibitor" (whatever that means), do not have any idea what they're talking about. It is certainly the most *studied* of the options you have for reducing follicular androgen activity, but not necessarily the most effective. And it certainly is not your best option if you want to avoid feminizing drugs.
If you want a better understanding of topical spironolactone, I recommend reading some articles from the following list (a few will be difficult to get and/or in a language other than English, but are included nonetheless):
- Akamatsu, H., C. C. Zouboulis, et al. (1993). "Spironolactone Directly Inhibits Proliferation of Cultured Human Facial Sebocytes and Acts Antagonistically to Testosterone and 5 alpha-Dihydrotestosterone In Vitro." Journal of Investigative Dermatology 100(5): 660-662.
[/*:m:b0361] - Berardesca, E., P. Gabba, et al. (1987). "Topical Treatment Of Acne Using Substances With Hormonal Activity." Chronica Dermatologica 18(SUPPL. 14): 649-654.
[/*:m:b0361] - Berardesca, E., P. Gabba, et al. (1988). "Topical spironolactone inhibits dihydrotestosterone receptors in human sebaceous glands: an autoradiographic study in subjects with acne vulgaris." International Journal of Tissue Reactions 10(2): 115-9.
[/*:m:b0361] - Califano, L., S. Cannavo, et al. (1990). "Experience in the therapy of acne with topical administration of spironolactone as an antiandrogen." Clinica Terapeutica 135(3): 193-9.
[/*:m:b0361] - Chen, W., D. Thiboutot, et al. (2002). "Cutaneous Androgen Metabolism: Basic Research and Clinical Perspectives." Journal of Investigative Dermatology 119(5): 992-1007.
[/*:m:b0361] - Dill-Muller, D. and H. Zaun (1997). "Topical treatment of androgenetic alopecia with spironolactone." Journal of the European Academy of Dermatology and Venereology 9(Supplement 1): S31.
[/*:m:b0361] - Fernandez-Vozmediano, J. M., G. Gil-Tocados, et al. (1994). "Contact dermatitis due to topical spironolactone." Contact Dermatitis 30(2): 118-119.
[/*:m:b0361] - Hennessey, J. V., A. R. Glass, et al. (1986). "Comparative antiandrogenic potency of spironolactone and cimetidine: assessment by the chicken cockscomb topical bioassay." Proceedings of the Society for Experimental Biology and Medicine 182(4): 443-7.
[/*:m:b0361] - Luderschmidt, C., F. Bidlingmaier, et al. (1982). "Inhibition of Sebaceous Gland Activity by Spironolactone in Syrian Hamster." Journal of Investigative Dermatology 78(3): 253-255.
[/*:m:b0361] - Massone, L., A. Pestarino, et al. (1987). "Topical Treatment Of Acne With Spironolactone." Clinica Terapeutica 123(4): 271-273.
[/*:m:b0361] - Matias, J. R., V. L. Malloy, et al. (1988). "Synergistic antiandrogenic effects of topical combinations of 5 alpha-reductase and androgen receptor inhibitors in the hamster sebaceous glands." Journal of Investigative Dermatology 91(5): 429-33.
[/*:m:b0361] - Messina, M., C. Manieri, et al. (1990). "Oral and topical spironolactone therapies in skin androgenization." Panminerva Medica 32(2): 49-55.
[/*:m:b0361] - Noto, G., G. Pravata, et al. (1991). "Topical canrenoic acid. Quantification of the antiandrogenic activity in the hamster flank organ." International Journal of Dermatology 30(11): 810-3.
[/*:m:b0361] - Prantera, M., A. Pizzino, et al. (1988). "[Topical antiandrogen therapy in seborrheic blepharitis]." Giornale Italiano di Dermatologia e Venereologia 123(11): 581-2.
[/*:m:b0361] - Raynal, S., J. L. Grossiord, et al. (1993). "A topical W/O/W multiple emulsion containing several active substances: Formulation, characterization and study of release." Journal of Controlled Release 26(2): 129-140.
[/*:m:b0361] - Rey, F. O., C. Valterio, et al. (1988). "Lack of endocrine systemic side effects after topical application of spironolactone in man." Journal of Endocrinological Investigation 11(4): 273-8.
[/*:m:b0361] - Seki, T., T. Toyomoto, et al. (1995). "Effects of topically applied spironolactone on androgen stimulated sebaceous glands in the hamster pinna." Journal of Dermatology 22(4): 233-7.
[/*:m:b0361] - Tomidei, M. and G. Strani (1987). "Spironolactone administered topically in the treatment of acne." Clinica Terapeutica 122(2): 99-105.
[/*:m:b0361] - Walton, S., W. J. Cunliffe, et al. (1986). "Lack of effect of topical spironolactone on sebum excretion." British Journal of Dermatology 114(2): 261-4.
[/*:m:b0361] - Walton, S., D. P. Lookingbill, et al. (1985). "Effect Of Topical Spironolactone On Sebum Excretion." Journal of Investigative Dermatology 84(5): 439.
[/*:m:b0361] - Weissmann, A., J. Bowden, et al. (1985). "Antiandrogenic effects of topically applied spironolactone on the hamster flank organ." Archives of Dermatology 121(1): 57-62.
[/*:m:b0361] - Wester, R. C. and H. I. Maibach (1990). In-Vitro Testing Of Topical Pharmaceutical Formulations. Osborne, D. W. And A. H. Amann: 213-220.
[/*:m:b0361] - Yamamoto, A. and M. Ito (1996). "Topical spironolactone reduces sebum secretion rates in young adults." Journal of Dermatology 23(4): 243-246.
[/*:m:b0361] - Zhou Zhanchao, Z. J. and W. Xu (1997). "Study on the suppressive action of preparations composed of ofloxacin, spironolactone and Tanshinone on the Syrian hamster flank organ." Zhonghua Pifuke Zazhi 30(3): 182-184.[/*:m:b0361]
Dave001
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Packers said:
Something you might consider is the use of a low concentration topical finasteride preparation to complement the topical spironolactone, as they may work synergistically. Vehicle is a critical consideration. See my recent post on the subject.
Old Baldy said:
we could find some clues here:
http://hairsite2.com/waseda/antiandrocream/main.htm
on the other hand, they recommend to use 30mg finasteride powder (6 pills) for 40ml lotion or cream (emu/horse oil)